Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6392|eXtreme to the maX
Israel has never followed the GC since its inception, whats your point?

South Africa was brought down by sanctions, we should do the same with Israel.
Fuck Israel
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7050|d
Fuk, just finished my ban to find this thread has grown to 3 pages.
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7050|d
All those people clueless enough to think that the UK does not have the power to do this are plain wrong. The FACT that the warrent was issued, the fact that she was due to come but didn't, and lets not forget that the law will now be changed to adhere to the will of isreal.

The attorney general will be asked to approve warrants before suspected war criminals can be arrested in future under a plan being negotiated by the Foreign Office in response to the row over attempts to arrest Israel's former foreign minister.

The Guardian has learned that discussions have begun in Whitehall on creating "safeguards" in criminal cases against visiting foreign leaders – not just those from Israel. Lawyers involved said they were outraged by the proposed change.

Gordon Brown today threw his weight behind moves to change the law and telephoned Tzipi Livni, leader of the Israeli opposition, to say he "completely opposed" the warrant issued by a London magistrates court for her arrest for alleged crimes in relation to the war in Gaza. The warrant was withdrawn when it transpired that Livni was not in the UK, but triggered a huge diplomatic spat in which politics clashed head-on with the law.

David Miliband, the foreign secretary, also phoned Livni, and called his Israeli counterpart, Avigdor Lieberman, to apologise.

"Livni supports a two-state solution. This attempt to secure her arrest has really set alarm bells ringing," said a senior Foreign Office source. "No one is talking about removing universal jurisdiction, but it's an anomaly that a magistrates court can issue an arrest warrant before a prosecutor has even said there is a case to prosecute. There need to be safeguards."

News of the prime minister's intervention provoked a furious response from lawyers and pro-Palestinian groups.

"I feel honest revulsion at the idea of a case where a judge has granted an arrest warrant and a politician gets on the phone and apologises," said Daniel Machover, a solicitor. "They have got to stay out of individual cases and legal decisions."

The law has developed rapidly since the Pinochet case in 1999, and allows suspected perpetrators of crimes such as genocide, torture and war crimes to be prosecuted in the courts of countries other than that where they were committed.

"The Geneva Conventions Act of 1957 places a positive obligation on the UK to pursue those who are alleged to have committed grave offences under the act," said another lawyer. "In the light of the Goldstone report [into the Gaza war] there is a prima facie case to answer."

The only successful prosecution so far has been of an Afghan warlord convicted of torture in 2005.

News of a plan to involve the attorney general in issuing warrants brought complaints about selective application of the law, politicisation of criminal justice, and violation of the separation of powers.

"It's outrageous and the only reason the Foreign Office wants to do it is to avoid embarrassment – there is no good legal reason," said Machover. "If there was an arrest warrant against Livni, it's because there was a case to answer according to a judge who found that there was reasonable suspicion."

Livni was due to attend a conference in London but cancelled two weeks ago. Palestinian sources claimed to have seen her at the event and alerted the lawyers seeking the arrest warrant.

Palestinians and an Israeli rights organisation say 1,400 people, mostly civilians, were killed in the Gaza offensive. Israel said 1,166 Palestinians died, mostly combatants, and it acted in self-defence against Hamas rockets fired from Gaza. Thirteen Israelis died.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/1 … o-warrants


Issuing a warrant for the arrest of an Israeli politician is one of the "biggest political mistakes the UK has ever made", Israel's president says.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 416816.stm



So after having such a big outcry, isreal then gets Brown to apologise and change UK laws!! haha. Dam you isreal for having so much power over my govement.

Last edited by mafia996630 (2009-12-17 02:02:24)

Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7003

Dilbert_X wrote:

Israel has never followed the GC since its inception, whats your point?

South Africa was brought down by sanctions, we should do the same with Israel.
If Hamas doesn't follow the GC, why should Israel?

Hell Israel is the only country to actually WARN people before they bomb the shit of their cities. Once Hamas stop using mosques, schools and hospitals and kids as human shields, come talk to me.

UK has no jurisdiction mafia, only the ICC can issue it, as war criminals are only tried under an international court.

Good luck pissing off Israel and disrespecting foreign state officials. It's all political showboating.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
venom6
Since day One.
+247|6845|Hungary
Israel can exterminate whole nations or continents. If you dare to say a quiet word against it your an antisemite.
They can, you not!
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6697|'Murka

mafia996630 wrote:

All those people clueless enough to think that the UK does not have the power to do this are plain wrong. The FACT that the warrent was issued, the fact that she was due to come but didn't, and lets not forget that the law will now be changed to adhere to the will of isreal.
Perhaps you should go back and read some of the other posts...and concepts like universal jursidiction as well as the basic fact that Livni was the Foreign Minister during Cast Lead. That's like saying the US Secretary of State has some say in military operations and should be held accountable for them--it's asinine.

And that the UN report itself wasn't even a document intended to be used in court--it wasn't based on an investigation:

On 15 September 2009, a lengthy 574 page report by Judge Goldstone's UN inquiry team was released, officially titled "Human Rights in Palestine and Other Occupied Arab Territories: Report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict".
[edit] Findings

The report concluded that the Israel Defence Force (IDF) and Palestinian armed groups committed war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity. While the report condemned violations by both sides, it more strongly criticized Israeli actions.[65]

Goldstone stated that the mission "wasn’t an investigation, it was a fact-finding mission” and that the conclusion that war crimes had been committed "was always intended as conditional". He described the allegations as "a useful road map" for independent investigations by Israel and the Palestinians.[66] He later added that the mission did not conduct a judicial investigation, and stated that its findings did not amount to "the criminal standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt". He described it as a prima facie case, "reasonable on weighing the evidence" and said that the information obtained would not be admissible as evidence in a criminal court.
And it doesn't mention Livni or the Foreign Ministry--it mentions the IDF.

None of this is saying that the IDF was lily-white in Gaza. It's saying that there was no legal basis to issue an arrest warrant for Livni--and had there been, universal jurisdiction would argue against it due to Livni's current position, so Brown's response seems reasonable.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

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