look, i'm American and not a young one. what i will say, be consistent, no big cuts no big increases because as saintly as Australians may be - there will be those that advocate flexing using the armed forces for more than it's stated purpose. i hope Australia doesn't experiment with adventurism or Imperialism, because i'd like to see it one day.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
So what do you guys think about increase military spending in Australia?
I'm not talking about a threat now. I'm talking about 20-30 years in the future. Without an increase in our forces, Australia will have a force not capable of defending ourselves. The only reason our spending has been so low for so long is because we have effectively been freeloading off America for decades now.
@ Burnzz. I know what you're saying. But I think a gradual increase over the next few decades will become necessary.
@ Burnzz. I know what you're saying. But I think a gradual increase over the next few decades will become necessary.
Last edited by Little BaBy JESUS (2011-04-01 21:53:43)
oh, my liver won't hold out that long.
go ahead, baloon the budget, go to exotic places, and kill people. i'll be long gone, just hope to leave pictures of how nice Earth once was.
go ahead, baloon the budget, go to exotic places, and kill people. i'll be long gone, just hope to leave pictures of how nice Earth once was.
Are you for real?Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
The only reason our spending has been so low for so long is because we have effectively been freeloading off America for decades now.
The only reason we have been involved in so many conflicts is so one day "if" we should need help we will have allies who are indebted to us. If anything the US has been free loading off us.
Simple logistics will show that there is no way we can ever have a large enough military force to defend ourselves, doubling or even tripling the size will do SFA, except waste money. Also last I checked not only was conscription illegal but it's completely ineffective.
|_()\_!DrunkFace wrote:
If anything the US has been free loading off us.
an australian says 'we free load' them! nothing, you ever say again, will make me believe you*re for real.
'Drunkface' is an an American equivalent of a teabagger, i get it now. thank you for shedding this light, i didn't know australians were afflicted with rednecks, same as us.
It's not conscription it is national service. Many countries do it.
Fuck how about we just delete these posts and leave the thread where it was. I don't want to ruin a good thread with this.
Fuck how about we just delete these posts and leave the thread where it was. I don't want to ruin a good thread with this.
Exactly the same thing.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
It's not conscription it is national service. Many countries do it.
Conscription isn't illegal in many other countries though.
How many conflicts has the US helped Australia out with again?burnzz wrote:
|_()\_!DrunkFace wrote:
If anything the US has been free loading off us.
an australian says 'we free load' them! nothing, you ever say again, will make me believe you*re for real.
'Drunkface' is an an American equivalent of a teabagger, i get it now. thank you for shedding this light, i didn't know australians were afflicted with rednecks, same as us.
Ohh right, none.
How many conflicts has Australia helped the US out with?
A fuck load more then none.
what'd you say, redneck?
edit; i'm ignoring you.
edit; i'm ignoring you.
Last edited by burnzz (2011-04-01 22:32:16)
They don't have to mean the same thing. In my opinion National Servicemen should only be deployed in defence of Australia and never on overseas operations.DrunkFace wrote:
Exactly the same thing.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
It's not conscription it is national service. Many countries do it.
Conscription isn't illegal in many other countries though.
Australia has had compulsory service in one from or another from federation up until the 1970s. Compulsory servicemen is how the 1st AIF grew in numbers so quickly, compulsory servicemen held the line at Kokoda and defended Australia from air attack in WW2.
Also, our involvement in recent US wars has been little more than a token effort.
Last edited by Little BaBy JESUS (2011-04-01 22:39:17)
They do, and they are. Any forced service of any kind is conscription, you can call it what you want and sugar coat it with whatever you like. It doesn't change fact; and there is no way in hell I or anyone I know would support it.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
They don't have to mean the same thing.DrunkFace wrote:
Exactly the same thing.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
It's not conscription it is national service. Many countries do it.
Conscription isn't illegal in many other countries though.
Yeh, your point being? It's still more then they have actively done for us. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we shouldn't help out our allies, but we have spent millions and lost thousands of lives fighting wars we had no direct involvement in. And got noting but a passive deterrent in exchange (So far).Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
Also, our involvement in recent US wars has been little more than a token effort.
Last edited by DrunkFace (2011-04-01 22:48:22)
service to country is always honorable, forced or not. if a conscript bears his service honorably, he deserves respect.
I see you point but I wouldn't go so far to say thousands of lives, we lost 500 in Vietnam and maybe 40 since then. (Unless of course you are referring back to WWI, in that case it was a popular decision by the Australian public)DrunkFace wrote:
Yeh, your point being? It's still more then they have actively done for us. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we shouldn't help out our allies, but we have spent millions and lost thousands of lives fighting wars we had no direct involvement in. And got noting but a passive deterrent in exchange (So far).
But anyway, dollars and lives (tragic I know) are countable. It is hard to know what would have happen and what might happen if we didn't support our allies.
If you are advocating a isolationist/self sufficiency style policy, then it could be argued that Australia would definitely have to raise its defence budget and possibly introduce some sort of national service because you can't rely on support from any other nation.
Last edited by Little BaBy JESUS (2011-04-01 23:04:30)
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.burnzz wrote:
service to country is always honorable, forced or not. if a conscript bears his service honorably, he deserves respect.
The old lie.
Indonesia for one.AussieReaper wrote:
wtf are you on?
and what military threat is even near australia?
Since the company I work for does defence work I say increase spending
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
WW2, not that Aus needed helpDrunkFace wrote:
How many conflicts has the US helped Australia out with again?
Ohh right, none.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Thank you for reminding him, I was going to fricken go at him in anger for that. You Aussies were rightly worried about the Japs and asked for our help and so we kindly sent our troops to your country to defend it if attacked.Dilbert_X wrote:
WW2, not that Aus needed helpDrunkFace wrote:
How many conflicts has the US helped Australia out with again?
Ohh right, none.
Last edited by War Man (2011-04-01 23:52:09)
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
^this, it fitting when its fitting, most of the time it is not.AussieReaper wrote:
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.burnzz wrote:
service to country is always honorable, forced or not. if a conscript bears his service honorably, he deserves respect.
The old lie.
I have become entirely disillusioned with the politicians in Aus, it seems they're all utter shit.
Most are career politicians with no real world experience in the slightest, other than how to manipulate committees and read focus group reports.
I would close Canberra and leave everything to the states, not that they're much better.
Most are career politicians with no real world experience in the slightest, other than how to manipulate committees and read focus group reports.
I would close Canberra and leave everything to the states, not that they're much better.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Haha I'd do the exact reverse, personally. Don't trust the states at all but the Federal politicians are OK if you go beyond QT and doorstops.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Aus will do fine militarily, but I wouldn't mind a budget bump. If there's gonna be national service, at least make sure the conscripts are pogs and use an Israeli style service/education thing.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
I see you point but I wouldn't go so far to say thousands of lives, we lost 500 in Vietnam and maybe 40 since then. (Unless of course you are referring back to WWI, in that case it was a popular decision by the Australian public)DrunkFace wrote:
Yeh, your point being? It's still more then they have actively done for us. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we shouldn't help out our allies, but we have spent millions and lost thousands of lives fighting wars we had no direct involvement in. And got noting but a passive deterrent in exchange (So far).
But anyway, dollars and lives (tragic I know) are countable. It is hard to know what would have happen and what might happen if we didn't support our allies.
If you are advocating a isolationist/self sufficiency style policy, then it could be argued that Australia would definitely have to raise its defence budget and possibly introduce some sort of national service because you can't rely on support from any other nation.
I've always wanted to do liek 12 months in the reserve or whatever, but never wanted the risk that I might be shipped off.
I'm happy to defend on our shore, but I aint leaving our country to fight someone elses war.
you know?
I'm happy to defend on our shore, but I aint leaving our country to fight someone elses war.
you know?
everything i write is a ramble and should not be taken seriously.... seriously. ♥
Dont be a reservists lol.tazz. wrote:
I've always wanted to do liek 12 months in the reserve or whatever, but never wanted the risk that I might be shipped off.
I'm happy to defend on our shore, but I aint leaving our country to fight someone elses war.
you know?
AFAIK most deployments are voluntary for aus =/
They won't ship you off if you do gap year lol.
Maybe they should bring something like the "Citizens Force" (or "Home Guard") back in. Not compulsory, but voluntary service with the guarantee not to be deployed overseas.
Isn't that the whole point of reservists lol. They should never deploy reservists imo.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
Maybe they should bring something like the "Citizens Force" (or "Home Guard") back in. Not compulsory, but voluntary service with the guarantee not to be deployed overseas.