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uziq
Member
+398|2413
i don't necessarily disagree with you, but it's a separate debate, about the nature of advanced-technological warfare. releasing chlorine gas or mustard gas with the wind in the trenches probably wasn't 'ethical', either: we've been renegotiating the codes of warfare ever since its major industrialization/mechanization.

(i guess you can thank many engineers and scientists for this contribution to dishonorable mass killing ...)

shooting a prisoner at short-range who is probably bound and restrained is pretty timeless, though. it's murder.

Last edited by uziq (2020-11-19 05:31:51)

Larssen
Member
+64|849
Nah I'm not exonerating anyone. Clearly this group had severe issues and violated numerous laws, not just once but some 30+ times, which ought to be punished.

But extrajudicial killings do happen in warzones, not always at the massive scale of this group here. Not necessarily applicable to this case but I've understood that there are some glaring issues with regard to captured or suspected combatants. As afghan citizens they'll be handed over to afghan military or police and it occured more than a few times that these people were released or disappeared again within days, only to turn up on the battlefield a week later. Rinse and repeat. This confronts people with some ethical and personal questions whether they don't just prefer killing these guys there and then rather than having to face fire or run over an IED planted by the exact same person at a later point in time. All that because the Afghan government doesn't handle them properly or because grey areas in the law avoid prosecution (or punish so lightly the time behind bars is far too short). The system of laws and regulations we deploy for fighting war amongst a civilian population are complicated, frustrating, ineffective and demand from average joe soldier a degree of tolerance and patience that is superhuman, inhuman even, not to mention (social) intelligence certainly beyond what a young regular infantryman has.

At least when you conduct a drone strike the targets will be dead and any other casualties are written off as 'collateral damage'. Avoids any possibility of captured combatants and a whole lot of complicated moral, ethical, judicial questions, which usually greatly damage any sort of war effort to boot if things go wrong. No better propaganda tool than an enemy that 'breaks the rules'. Which is also a certainty in warfare - you will have soldiers that either intentionally or inadvertently cause death that will be considered illegal.
uziq
Member
+398|2413

Larssen wrote:

But extrajudicial killings do happen in warzones, not always at the massive scale of this group here. Not necessarily applicable to this case but I've understood that there are some glaring issues with regard to captured or suspected combatants. As afghan citizens they'll be handed over to afghan military or police and it occured more than a few times that these people were released or disappeared again within days, only to turn up on the battlefield a week later. Rinse and repeat. This confronts people with some ethical and personal questions whether they don't just prefer killing these guys there and then rather than having to face fire or run over an IED planted by the exact same person at a later point in time. All that because the Afghan government doesn't handle them properly or because grey areas in the law avoid prosecution (or punish so lightly the time behind bars is far too short). The system of laws and regulations we deploy for fighting war amongst a civilian population are complicated, frustrating, ineffective and demand from average joe soldier a degree of tolerance and patience that is superhuman, inhuman even, not to mention (social) intelligence certainly beyond what a young regular infantryman has.
i would suggest that is the occupying forces' and their installed government's problem, not the guy being shot in the face out of combat.
Larssen
Member
+64|849
Yeah but I don't think that'll help the people on the ground who are otherwise on the receiving end of bullets and IEDs. While illegal, I can understand the frustration and desire to 'take matters in one's own hands'.

Ah well, in some future we'll have an almost completely robotised/automated battlefield anyway. Already saw this in Ukraine to an extent: the Russians had drones flying over the battlefield identifying enemy combatants who were then immediately struck by artillery strikes. No human intervention needed.
uziq
Member
+398|2413
i doubt aussie special forces were frustrated. more likely it's as dilbert says: they're on the other side of the world being sent to a theatre of combat with which they rightfully have fuck-all attachment or investment. it's a shooting holiday and a bit of adventure. what stake does australia have in the future of afghanistan? no surprises that a bunch of specially trained, over-armed meatheads go and plink a few goatfarmers. boredom is probably a bigger threat than frustration.

these aren't the people being sent out on recce and patrols, either, in long convoys, being targeted by IEDs. they were tasked, if i recall correctly, on dropping into areas to stop opium production. they're flown in by helicopter, catch a few peasants harvesting and processing poppies red-handed, and then murder a few. this is not a unit that has been stationed in helmand for 6 months and has lost 20% of its men, battle-weary, etc, etc.

Last edited by uziq (2020-11-19 07:14:03)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,734|5067|eXtreme to the maX
These guys were involved in plenty of firefights with militants, they weren't just policing opium production.

As always the infantry take the hits, the guy dropping JDAMs on farms gets to go home.
#FreeBritney
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+460|2681
News article had a headline about China trying to bully Australia and used a picture of wine bottles. That made me super thirsty. An Australian wine brand is my go to wine.
https://drinks.seriouseats.com/images/2012/02/20120228-yellow-tail-reds.jpg
Interestingly the simple design and name of the brand has had a big role in its success. Research has shown that millennials are intimidated by bottles of wine with fancy labels. Meanwhile boomers gravitate towards fancy labels
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/02/13/dining/13pour1/merlin_150020475_775d925d-78a9-4798-b9e7-fd9e497708a8-superJumbo.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,897|5733|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

These guys were involved in plenty of firefights with militants, they weren't just policing opium production.

As always the infantry take the hits, the guy dropping JDAMs on farms gets to go home.
Just to revive this for a moment, it might be a bit silly to pretend you're divorced from all this since some of your professional efforts goes into military hardware. But sure, lament the persecuted upon infantryman personally executing people who don't need executed.
uziq
Member
+398|2413

SuperJail Warden wrote:

News article had a headline about China trying to bully Australia and used a picture of wine bottles. That made me super thirsty. An Australian wine brand is my go to wine.
https://drinks.seriouseats.com/images/2012/02/20120228-yellow-tail-reds.jpg
Interestingly the simple design and name of the brand has had a big role in its success. Research has shown that millennials are intimidated by bottles of wine with fancy labels. Meanwhile boomers gravitate towards fancy labels
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/02/13/dining/13pour1/merlin_150020475_775d925d-78a9-4798-b9e7-fd9e497708a8-superJumbo.jpg
it's a line in market research #101 that something like 90% of wine purchases are based on brand presentation/bottling alone. that australian brand is by no means an exception: it's the norm.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,734|5067|eXtreme to the maX

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

These guys were involved in plenty of firefights with militants, they weren't just policing opium production.

As always the infantry take the hits, the guy dropping JDAMs on farms gets to go home.
Just to revive this for a moment, it might be a bit silly to pretend you're divorced from all this since some of your professional efforts goes into military hardware. But sure, lament the persecuted upon infantryman personally executing people who don't need executed.
Not divorced at all, what has happened is disgraceful and they'll be prosecuted severely. And its very likely those guys were carrying equipment made by me.

Just making the point that the guy who places dots on a screen for Hellfires to hit faces no consequences if he was wantonly or deliberately careless and hits a wedding.
#FreeBritney
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,897|5733|USA

I think few people who condemn up close and personal killings are by contrast totally fine with drones killing farmers and mothers while US, etc., military officials lie and pat themselves on the back over a successful Daesh purge.

How are we going to get rid of insurgent fighters when we keep creating them?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,734|5067|eXtreme to the maX
Great news! All these guys can just be pardoned.
#FreeBritney
uziq
Member
+398|2413
trump has spent his last phase in office executing (sometimes mentally deficient) poor people and pardoning rich slime balls and child murdering mercenaries.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,734|5067|eXtreme to the maX
Thats how the trickledown effect works are you stupid.
#FreeBritney
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,734|5067|eXtreme to the maX
Advance Koala Bear has been updated

From January 1, 2021 the second line of Australia's national anthem will change from, 'For we are young and free' to 'For we are one and free'.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-31/ … e/13024810
#FreeBritney
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,734|5067|eXtreme to the maX
If people don't want to come here thats OK.

Why don't we take more Sudanese refugees? Why do we take any? The ones which have come here have caused a whole world of trouble.

And obviously graduates don't instantly become partners in law firms, dur.
#FreeBritney
uziq
Member
+398|2413
think you might need to put on your reading spectacles and read that again. go on, have another try. we won't mark you down for the practice exam.
lil_droo
Member
+18|456

uziq wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jan/02/a-spoilt-brat-country-the-australians-overseas-who-decided-not-to-come-home
it's funny cause people always think it's america that is worst when it comes to racism and not liking foreigners etc but australia is the same way maybe worse. they are more redneckish than us in some ways too. only met a few irl but did have a convo with one i met thru work several years back and we got on some subjects and i pretty quickly relealizd this dude is legit racist. also know a black dude that lived out there for a year and said he experienced more racism (especially indirect suble shit) than he ever did in california.

also doesn't help that one of the only australians on this forum (dilbert) hates jews and believes in scientific racism basically lol.
gang shit
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,711|5698|Oxferd Ohire
adams loves to say the n word but he is not racist
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
lil_droo
Member
+18|456

RTHKI wrote:

adams loves to say the n word but he is not racist
i say n**ga when rapping lyrics sometimes but not the hard -er and i also don't say it around black people
gang shit
Larssen
Member
+64|849
I don't do that but rappers who use that word excessively and glorify its connotations (even if it's in protest) should stfu about people singing along to their songs. That is honestly one of the stupidest, most childish things.

Last edited by Larssen (2021-01-02 12:37:17)

Larssen
Member
+64|849

uziq wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jan/02/a-spoilt-brat-country-the-australians-overseas-who-decided-not-to-come-home
Really it's just an article with anecdotes from expats that you can find from literally anywhere. Oh, 50% of the law firm management isn't female = inequality! So you move to Paris because French society really isn't run by a much more chauvinistic old boys network? What?

Or 'why doesn't australia take in more sudanese refugees?' That Sudanese people choose Europe, I can somewhat understand, but how in the F does a Sudanese refugee cross the thousands of miles of ocean to Australia? Do they hitchhike all the way to Indonesia to take a boat there?

Let's be honest you're not quite a refugee at that point anymore and I doubt they're poor if they can pay their way there.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,897|5733|USA

I enjoy the beats to some of the rap and pop out there, but the lyrics can be kind of awkward and uncomfortable to listen to. I wonder if that ever gets Dilbert while listening to Lady Gaga.
lil_droo
Member
+18|456

Larssen wrote:

I don't do that but rappers who use that word excessively and glorify its connotations (even if it's in protest) should stfu about people singing along to their songs. That is honestly one of the stupidest, most childish things.
idk it's pretty complex but it is what it is. some dont care but it just depends on the mood and who you're around i guess.

it's weird how some rappers (mostly latin) get a pass on using the n-word like pump, 6ix9ine and ohgeesy etc. some of them are part puerto rican which i guess is technically ok since most puerto ricans have african in them to some degree but like straight up white looking mexican types like ohgeesy probably shouldn't say it. lil xan doesn't say it for example. it seems like if you're latino but grew up kinda hood then it's okay.

i grew up fucking around rapping since i was a teenager just for fun, mostly freestyling to random scenarios with friends or taking my own twist on other songs and just riding off the instrumentals and melody and i'm not gonna lie it is easier when u can say the n word for flow and as a filler or whatever but not necessary either. there's actually a lot of trap rappers that normally use the n word a lot but have released amazing songs without using it using it very little
gang shit

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