you just have to accept that australia is probably more reactionary and more vocally white than the rest of the west. we had racist incidents here too, and i'm sure there were racist incidents in china going the other way -- usual noise and clamour -- but only in australia is it quite so 'mainstreamed'. there isn't the same sentiment here that 'we'll never buy chinese again'. i guess you need the special privileges of being the 'white civilization' democracy as well as being full of extra-special self-loathing for your economic dependency on your near neighbours.
I'm sure the UK is dependent on the Chinese buying govt debt, and oligarch money robbed from Russian peasants, its just less visible.
One way or another Aus is going to be less dependent, China could very easily cut all iron and coal imports from Aus and source what they need from elsewhere. They've had a go-slow on Aus minerals for years already. The Aus economy will collapse but no pain no gain.
Presumably Japan and America will stop buying steel from China and may use Aus minerals to make their own.
The smart thing at this point would be for the US to rebuild its infrastructure with its own steel and cut China out of the loop.
One way or another Aus is going to be less dependent, China could very easily cut all iron and coal imports from Aus and source what they need from elsewhere. They've had a go-slow on Aus minerals for years already. The Aus economy will collapse but no pain no gain.
Presumably Japan and America will stop buying steel from China and may use Aus minerals to make their own.
The smart thing at this point would be for the US to rebuild its infrastructure with its own steel and cut China out of the loop.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-04-21 19:14:24)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
"never buy china again" would never work lol. we depend too much on them and we really can't live without them tbh. people will claim to boycott china but billy in oklahoma is still gonna buy his kid that cheap bicycle made in china from walmart at the end of the day
i like chinese people anyways, i would never go against their home country. i've spent a lot of time around them, especially playing poker. they are good people.
i like chinese people anyways, i would never go against their home country. i've spent a lot of time around them, especially playing poker. they are good people.
Last edited by lil_droo (2020-04-21 20:29:20)
gang shit
hysterical nonsense. sorry!Dilbert_X wrote:
I'm sure the UK is dependent on the Chinese buying govt debt, and oligarch money robbed from Russian peasants, its just less visible.
One way or another Aus is going to be less dependent, China could very easily cut all iron and coal imports from Aus and source what they need from elsewhere. They've had a go-slow on Aus minerals for years already. The Aus economy will collapse but no pain no gain.
Presumably Japan and America will stop buying steel from China and may use Aus minerals to make their own.
The smart thing at this point would be for the US to rebuild its infrastructure with its own steel and cut China out of the loop.
i have no doubt that trump and maybe some other right-aligned populist-adjacent leaders in the west will make all the right noises. trump has, after all, been making minor skirmishes and token gestures towards 'combatting china' in trade wars on behalf of his rally-faithful for most of his elected term. but a complete divestment of chinese goods? re-starting and re-planting the american steel industry? during the inevitable huge recession that follows all of this?
who actually has the will and the determination to do such a thing? so some racist graffiti on garages in australia and some irate, confused and fearful septuagenarians in 'the times of australias' letters page means the west is going to radically break with china... lol. we've just spent the last 30 years encouraging them to come into the global market (for our own self-interested benefit!) you keep making out like china have taken the world hostage in that time; it can't possibly be that we in the west have become crack-babies for their ultra-cheap labour, whilst seemingly being fine with the poverty, immiseration and political repression of a third of the world's population!
what could conceivably happen is that the world trends towards anti-globalisation, or rather 'small and local' contingency for a while (i doubt it will last much beyond a generation; capital flows one way, and collective memory is evidently forgetful of tragedies). i don't think there's going to be some 'virus payback' against china. businesses and governments, as well as consumer habits perhaps (but least of all), will change tack to sourcing and buying locally. maybe. and, well, good. if the era of taking 6 flights a year and the british getting their fruit from new zealand is brought to an end, the entire world will probably be better for it.
Last edited by uziq (2020-04-22 02:26:35)
The average person is pissed with China, morons eating bats have cost the average person several years wages at least.
I'm very confident that instead of buying Chinese the average person will buy local, Japanese or Korean, anywhere but China or choose not to buy.
You're out of touch with how the average person thinks and hence were blindsided by Brexit and Johnson being elected. I reckon I'm right on this too.
This alone will be enough to fuck up the Chinese economy for decades.
America has forced local production for many defence and govt contracts for decades, there are ways and means the govt can force it for other goods.
Apart from that Australia needs a credible defence now, not a handful of obsolete submarines in 20 years time.
This project just gives the Chinese an invasion timetable.
I'm very confident that instead of buying Chinese the average person will buy local, Japanese or Korean, anywhere but China or choose not to buy.
You're out of touch with how the average person thinks and hence were blindsided by Brexit and Johnson being elected. I reckon I'm right on this too.
This alone will be enough to fuck up the Chinese economy for decades.
America has forced local production for many defence and govt contracts for decades, there are ways and means the govt can force it for other goods.
Apart from that Australia needs a credible defence now, not a handful of obsolete submarines in 20 years time.
This project just gives the Chinese an invasion timetable.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
i still cannot believe that you seriously think a global pandemic is the fault of 'people eating bats' and could thus be avoided if only people did not eat bats. it's too stupid to even engage with. experts have been warning about the serious structural flaws and high risk of a pandemic-type event for years. we have globalism and global supply chains without any proper measures in place for highly infectious pathogens.
compare the foot and mouth crisis in the UK in the 00s. what level of security and measures did airports have then? everyone getting off a plane from even a vaguely infected region had to to walk through tubs of disinfectant, be questioned by customs, fill out forms, etc. what measures were there in american airports for coronavirus? nil. not even highly flawed temperature guns. we have been ignoring this problem for years. people eating bats is not only factually incorrect, it's a mere spark that has ignited the giant pile of firewood we've been ignoring in the yard.
you keep going on about brexit and the 'average person'. i don't know what powers of cognizance you have over there in australia, lecturing me on a country you haven't lived in for almost the entirety of my life-span. it's tedious and boring, in any case. nobody was 'blindsided' by brexit. most of the popular press were agitating for it -- the same people who got behind new labour/blair, your favourite, by the way. being depressed about the outcome doesn't mean i was suddenly alienated and lost in my own country. i've got people in my family who voted for brexit. because, you know, i actually live here, and interact with british people. you get your entire worldview from a limited palette of websites.
keep going on about war with china. you sound like a crank.
compare the foot and mouth crisis in the UK in the 00s. what level of security and measures did airports have then? everyone getting off a plane from even a vaguely infected region had to to walk through tubs of disinfectant, be questioned by customs, fill out forms, etc. what measures were there in american airports for coronavirus? nil. not even highly flawed temperature guns. we have been ignoring this problem for years. people eating bats is not only factually incorrect, it's a mere spark that has ignited the giant pile of firewood we've been ignoring in the yard.
you keep going on about brexit and the 'average person'. i don't know what powers of cognizance you have over there in australia, lecturing me on a country you haven't lived in for almost the entirety of my life-span. it's tedious and boring, in any case. nobody was 'blindsided' by brexit. most of the popular press were agitating for it -- the same people who got behind new labour/blair, your favourite, by the way. being depressed about the outcome doesn't mean i was suddenly alienated and lost in my own country. i've got people in my family who voted for brexit. because, you know, i actually live here, and interact with british people. you get your entire worldview from a limited palette of websites.
keep going on about war with china. you sound like a crank.
Last edited by uziq (2020-04-22 02:48:13)
This was a wholly unnecessary pandemic, just like the last one, bats should be left alone.
Should we allow the Chinese to continue slaughtering bats on their kitchen tables and travelling the world as tourists?
Most of the world would say no.
Personally I wouldn't let people travel from places where diseases like foot and mouth are endemic, not without decontamination and quarantine.
Most international travel is so morons can gawp at things, I'd put a stop to it.
Should we allow the Chinese to continue slaughtering bats on their kitchen tables and travelling the world as tourists?
Most of the world would say no.
Personally I wouldn't let people travel from places where diseases like foot and mouth are endemic, not without decontamination and quarantine.
Most international travel is so morons can gawp at things, I'd put a stop to it.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
There will be a war with China, we've fought two and lost already, when we thought we had the upper hand.
Soon they will be undefeatable, and we've funded their buildup to this point.
Soon they will be undefeatable, and we've funded their buildup to this point.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
what is a 'necessary' pandemic? make sense man!
you do know that a wet market is just a farmer's market for chinese people, right? it's where they get their fresh produce, animal and vegetable. live animals are paraded, weighed, and bought and sold at many european markets, too. it's not a uniquely chinese phenomenon. there have been several smaller epidemic breakouts across the world, including several major outbreaks of swine flu originating in the united states.
i know you already have the answer already, though (you always do): let's just stop eating and making contact with animals altogether! simples!
most international travel and freight is to keep the global supply chain going. as has become immediately obvious with this global downturn. but, sure, keep exercising that throbbing vein in your temple about 'chinese tourists gawping' at things. we already know from even rudimentary contact trace analysis that the virus arrived in italy and the US with workers.
your problem is that you are perfectly happy to sit and profit from globalism when it means you are wealthier than the average taxi driver in mumbai or don't have to work 12 hour shifts at foxconn like chinese electrical engineers. you're good with it so long as your funds are in gold or a western currency. but as soon as the same system of interconnected global commerce becomes a network-carrier of a lethal virus, oh no, the real problem is chinese eating habits, or pushy tourists with their clicking DSLRs. you are substituting your personal xenophobia and, apparently, pet irritations for real analysis. sad!
you do know that a wet market is just a farmer's market for chinese people, right? it's where they get their fresh produce, animal and vegetable. live animals are paraded, weighed, and bought and sold at many european markets, too. it's not a uniquely chinese phenomenon. there have been several smaller epidemic breakouts across the world, including several major outbreaks of swine flu originating in the united states.
i know you already have the answer already, though (you always do): let's just stop eating and making contact with animals altogether! simples!
most international travel and freight is to keep the global supply chain going. as has become immediately obvious with this global downturn. but, sure, keep exercising that throbbing vein in your temple about 'chinese tourists gawping' at things. we already know from even rudimentary contact trace analysis that the virus arrived in italy and the US with workers.
your problem is that you are perfectly happy to sit and profit from globalism when it means you are wealthier than the average taxi driver in mumbai or don't have to work 12 hour shifts at foxconn like chinese electrical engineers. you're good with it so long as your funds are in gold or a western currency. but as soon as the same system of interconnected global commerce becomes a network-carrier of a lethal virus, oh no, the real problem is chinese eating habits, or pushy tourists with their clicking DSLRs. you are substituting your personal xenophobia and, apparently, pet irritations for real analysis. sad!
Last edited by uziq (2020-04-22 03:10:13)
Do many farmers markets in the UK sell live exotic animals and slaughter and butcher them on the spot?
I guess the streets of Bristol must be awash with blood and entrails of a Saturday.
Most international travel has nothing to do with global supply chains, the bulk of air travel is for leisure purposes.
Freight is obviously.
I guess the streets of Bristol must be awash with blood and entrails of a Saturday.
Most international travel has nothing to do with global supply chains, the bulk of air travel is for leisure purposes.
Freight is obviously.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-04-22 03:20:50)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
what is an 'exotic' animal? make sense man! a sheep is an exotic animal in indonesia; bats aren't.
bristol isn't a big livestock or market town: try hereford or gloucester and, yes, you can find cattle markets and lots of live animals being trucked around.
are you really pretending that china is the only place in the world where chickens are beheaded at their point of sale? what does this have to do with the eating of bats, exactly? do you think bats are slaughtered at wet markets? lol. your thinking seems to be a little vague and muddled.
again you're very good at giving away your own narrowminded tastes and preferences, but not so good on actual analysis and getting to the real crux of this global pandemic. sad!
chinese workers in factories in italy are not tourists, sorry. people travelling to and from wuhan for business is not tourism, either. the virus wasn't spread by chinese tourists crowding out the leaning tower of pisa, dilbert, no matter how your poxed imagination has it.
bristol isn't a big livestock or market town: try hereford or gloucester and, yes, you can find cattle markets and lots of live animals being trucked around.
are you really pretending that china is the only place in the world where chickens are beheaded at their point of sale? what does this have to do with the eating of bats, exactly? do you think bats are slaughtered at wet markets? lol. your thinking seems to be a little vague and muddled.
again you're very good at giving away your own narrowminded tastes and preferences, but not so good on actual analysis and getting to the real crux of this global pandemic. sad!
chinese workers in factories in italy are not tourists, sorry. people travelling to and from wuhan for business is not tourism, either. the virus wasn't spread by chinese tourists crowding out the leaning tower of pisa, dilbert, no matter how your poxed imagination has it.
Last edited by uziq (2020-04-22 03:35:14)
Lmao this reads like the intro to some shitty YA novelDilbert_X wrote:
There will be a war with China, we've fought two and lost already, when we thought we had the upper hand.
Soon they will be undefeatable, and we've funded their buildup to this point.
dilbert's thinking on world affairs is heavily coloured by consuming too many marvel movies.
I've been proven right on most things, its a shame it will take a war to prove me right on this.
Maybe we'll acquiesce in China imposing total power over Hong Kong and Taiwan, then Vietnam etc.
We'll see when they get to Japan, Korea, India, Indonesia, Australia.
Maybe we'll acquiesce in China imposing total power over Hong Kong and Taiwan, then Vietnam etc.
We'll see when they get to Japan, Korea, India, Indonesia, Australia.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
no you haven't been proven right on most things at all. confirmation bias, much? most of the things you espouse are quack theories. racial hierarchies and all your cod-victorian bad darwinism, for one. your apocalyptic malthusianism? they've been predicting the end of the world for as long as most western millenarian christian sects. i suppose you'll all have to be right eventually ... over a long enough timeline ... unimpeachable logic!
why would china invade vietnam? it isn't the cold war anymore, vietnam isn't some proxy for the great struggle between capitalism and communism. ditto the koreas. do you think china is going to invade south korea? in 2020? to what end? to prop up a moribund regime in NK that has been a ball-and-chain on china's international relations for the last 20-30 years? lol. be real.
when was the last time china invaded japan or expressed any intentions for the same? you're going to have to look back to ancient kingdoms for an answer to that one. and to what end? japan has always needed to expand beyond its relatively resource-poor islands. why would china want to possess and subjugate japan? to find all those mineral deposits? all that rich arable land? lol. get fucking real.
china has been one of the least bellicose and aggressive nations in modern geopolitical history. compare that with the hundreds of years of bloody conflicts in which the europeans were either butchering one another to death in muddy fields or bogs in the name of internecine conflict, or burning each other at the stake because of doctrinal differences. i hardly see how you can present china as some unique force for evil in the world. why wouldn't they try to secure land and bases in the china sea, when it's their only link to the world via sea/freight? america has a ring of military bases around the pacific. it's an escalating conflict between two superpowers, not unique chinese evil. america is very quickly developing the capacity to cut off china's access to the sea. why wouldn't they start dredging up sand bars and making territorial claims?
coronavirus has made it perfectly clear that when china sneezes, the global economy catches flu. a giant ground-war or land invasion is the last thing anyone wants. it would bring down everyone. why any country would opt for such a strategy eludes me. it only makes sense in your comic book world where nations are lead by evil supervillains. china has spent the majority of the 21st century developing its ability to beat us at global capitalism, building ports, investing heavily in infrastructure in africa, etc. why would they set a bomb under that same system? you can't be mad at china for being better than us at rapacious capitalism or relentless accumulation. we taught them the rules of the game and bullied them into it!
why would china invade vietnam? it isn't the cold war anymore, vietnam isn't some proxy for the great struggle between capitalism and communism. ditto the koreas. do you think china is going to invade south korea? in 2020? to what end? to prop up a moribund regime in NK that has been a ball-and-chain on china's international relations for the last 20-30 years? lol. be real.
when was the last time china invaded japan or expressed any intentions for the same? you're going to have to look back to ancient kingdoms for an answer to that one. and to what end? japan has always needed to expand beyond its relatively resource-poor islands. why would china want to possess and subjugate japan? to find all those mineral deposits? all that rich arable land? lol. get fucking real.
china has been one of the least bellicose and aggressive nations in modern geopolitical history. compare that with the hundreds of years of bloody conflicts in which the europeans were either butchering one another to death in muddy fields or bogs in the name of internecine conflict, or burning each other at the stake because of doctrinal differences. i hardly see how you can present china as some unique force for evil in the world. why wouldn't they try to secure land and bases in the china sea, when it's their only link to the world via sea/freight? america has a ring of military bases around the pacific. it's an escalating conflict between two superpowers, not unique chinese evil. america is very quickly developing the capacity to cut off china's access to the sea. why wouldn't they start dredging up sand bars and making territorial claims?
coronavirus has made it perfectly clear that when china sneezes, the global economy catches flu. a giant ground-war or land invasion is the last thing anyone wants. it would bring down everyone. why any country would opt for such a strategy eludes me. it only makes sense in your comic book world where nations are lead by evil supervillains. china has spent the majority of the 21st century developing its ability to beat us at global capitalism, building ports, investing heavily in infrastructure in africa, etc. why would they set a bomb under that same system? you can't be mad at china for being better than us at rapacious capitalism or relentless accumulation. we taught them the rules of the game and bullied them into it!
Last edited by uziq (2020-04-22 04:05:09)
Taiwan and the japanese islands are real candidates for annexation in the medium term, but through other means like what we saw happening to the crimea in Ukraine. Russia wrote the book on that one.
But to dispel a nonsense idea: there will be no outright military conflict with China even if that happens. NATO exists to protect the north atlantic area, it's in the name. It cannot and will not be involved in a conflict in the pacific without the territorial integrity of that north atlantic area being threatened. Moreover, Europe does not have the means to be meaningfully involved that far away. As such it would be the US on its own, with maybe AUS. No rational person would decide to get involved with China in that setup near their coast.
It's like the fabled predicted conflict with the soviet union in the cold war: never happened. Not only because there was too much at stake, but because we would've lost or scored a pyrrhic victory in the best case.
But to dispel a nonsense idea: there will be no outright military conflict with China even if that happens. NATO exists to protect the north atlantic area, it's in the name. It cannot and will not be involved in a conflict in the pacific without the territorial integrity of that north atlantic area being threatened. Moreover, Europe does not have the means to be meaningfully involved that far away. As such it would be the US on its own, with maybe AUS. No rational person would decide to get involved with China in that setup near their coast.
It's like the fabled predicted conflict with the soviet union in the cold war: never happened. Not only because there was too much at stake, but because we would've lost or scored a pyrrhic victory in the best case.
Last edited by Larssen (2020-04-23 05:05:21)
the tiny japanese islands under territorial dispute were mere grandstanding for political gain, entirely worthless as strategic assets and nothing like 'empire building'. china's historical claims to taiwan and HK are at least grounded in an, albeit very complex, local history. china doesn't have the same sort of historic claim to the japanese mainland.
So what were the Korean and Vietnam wars then? Neither were trivial and weren't they China attempting to extend their control across the continent?uziq wrote:
china has been one of the least bellicose and aggressive nations in modern geopolitical history.
Both are unfinished business from their perspective, and you can add Burma as Chinese ideological expansion which we didn't bother fighting over.
They'll annihilate Japan over historical enmity, they probably don't much want the land, although its fertile and unpolluted compared with their own.
Also unfinished business which they won't just let sit.
They'll need nationalist distractions when their economy is going backwards and the average Chinese has lost everything.
Purely for Chinese internal politics, China strong! Next Xinping will be photographed riding a horse bare-chested.the tiny japanese islands under territorial dispute were mere grandstanding for political gain
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-04-22 04:30:08)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
the korean and vietnam wars were, er, a nuclear superpower with massive military deployments on their border? nixon's administration bombed the hell out of non-combatant nations like cambodia and laos. and didn't macarthur want to take the korean war into china, using nukes? why are china the bad guys in this scenario? the people over-extending their military reach to the other side of the world, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in the name of 'ideology', were the white guys. did you miss that memo? the north vietnamese communists were a genuinely elected popular government. the unwanted, corrupt tin-pot dictator was the american's guy in the south, dinh diem. but it was 'china extending their reach across the continent'???
and china's side 'won' the vietnam war. what 'unfinished business'? do you need to read a history book?
to this
makes perfect sense! it's so plausible!
and china's side 'won' the vietnam war. what 'unfinished business'? do you need to read a history book?
oh, yes, from thisPurely for Chinese internal politics, China strong! Next Xinping will be photographed riding a horse bare-chested.
to this
makes perfect sense! it's so plausible!
Last edited by uziq (2020-04-22 04:36:59)
China started pushing communism into Vietnam while it was under French control, well before the Americans took an interest.
Korea is obviously more complex but there was no aggression from South Korea, just a steady buildup of insurgency from the north before the US etc really got involved - same as Vietnam.
Korea is obviously more complex but there was no aggression from South Korea, just a steady buildup of insurgency from the north before the US etc really got involved - same as Vietnam.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
communist china didn't exist as a state when the french controlled vietnam. i don't know how you can portray a bunch of countries seeking independence from european empires, and many opting for communistic ideas, as the agency of china 'pushing' things. somewhat of a strange anachronism, there. communism had popular support across much of indo-china, i'm not sure why that's an uncomfortable fact for you.
the cold war is over, by the way. russia and china are no longer pushing an alternative ideology and trying to enlist nations in that grand struggle. china and russia are more effectively and ruthlessly capitalist than their former nemeses.
so your claim is basically that 'china will embark on a series of hugely costly and destructive wars to settle old historical scores, most of which they objectively settled and won in the past anyway'. OK. i'm sure they are going to invade japan, one of the most populous and developed nations in all of asia, because they're mad that japan won't correct their history textbooks on manchuria.
the cold war is over, by the way. russia and china are no longer pushing an alternative ideology and trying to enlist nations in that grand struggle. china and russia are more effectively and ruthlessly capitalist than their former nemeses.
so your claim is basically that 'china will embark on a series of hugely costly and destructive wars to settle old historical scores, most of which they objectively settled and won in the past anyway'. OK. i'm sure they are going to invade japan, one of the most populous and developed nations in all of asia, because they're mad that japan won't correct their history textbooks on manchuria.
Last edited by uziq (2020-04-22 04:52:36)
They'll do it to distract the population from their won internal failings.
Isn't that how many wars have started?
And obviously they want Australia and New Zealand for the farming and minerals.
Isn't that how many wars have started?
And obviously they want Australia and New Zealand for the farming and minerals.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
no, i can't think of many times in history when a nuclear-armed nation of 1.4 billion has tried to invade a materially useless archipelago of 160 million to 'keep the people distracted'.
i'm sure new zealand's sheep flocks are the envy of every chinese bourgeois in hangzhou.
i'm sure new zealand's sheep flocks are the envy of every chinese bourgeois in hangzhou.
Last edited by uziq (2020-04-22 05:03:34)
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +635|3717
This is completely false.Uzique wrote:
china has been one of the least bellicose and aggressive nations in modern geopolitical history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Tibet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Sovi … r_conflict
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War
I can't think of a single time in history a country has had designs on other lands and used perceived historical injustices and enmity with a specific racial group to distract the population from internal difficulties and foment trouble.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!