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farmerfez
o wut?
+78|5607

Zimmer wrote:

farmerfez wrote:

actually when massing carbs>fat. Yes you need fat but you can just eat a greasy burger and think its doing anything good for you. I know you need fat but not nearly in as much quantity as carbs or protein because eating too much fat WILL MAKE YOU FAT whereas if you eat the right kind of carbs and are active 6 days a week they will turn into energy. You want to lower carb intake when cutting BF% because thats when the fat stores are used for energy, when there's no carbs.
Note the word "greasy burger". Since when did I mention unhealthy food in this thread? There's good fat, like the fat you get from nuts, and then there's bad fat that you get from "greasy burgers" if you want to put it that way. Eating nuts and the sort is very good for you, much better than eating a bowl of pasta when building.

Carbs are good, but you can build quite easily without a massive intake of carbs - just the ones you need for the workouts and that's it. Read up Tom Venuto - Burn The Fat, Feed the Muscle if you want more information on that sort of thing.

I don't disagree with you, but you're making wildly generalised statements that are quite incorrect when reading into them.
I'd rather eat a bowl of pasta with no butter than nuts just because the carb intake is so much more. When massing you need .8 g/lb of protein and 2-3g/lb of carbs to successfully gain muscle mass quickly. Of course you will gain bodyfat while doing this which is hard to avoid. That's why you mass in the winter and come february or march you start to cut that excess body fat you gained while massing leaving the muscle you gained (losing some in the process but looking better overall for summer/beach season.) However for fat the intake is much lower being only about .5g/lb because your getting enough energy from the carbs your taking in the fat can be lower. However when you are cutting carbs fat intake must increase to substitute the energy you gained from carbs. So therefore everyone's diet is different depending on their goals. I am in the massing phase of my training so therefore carbs go up and fat goes down. However come march the opposite will happen. It is impossible to build dense massive muscle while trying to cut fat because the nutrients to build muscle simply wont be there.
HaiBai
Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
+304|4560|Bolingbrook, Illinois

farmerfez wrote:

Zimmer wrote:

farmerfez wrote:

actually when massing carbs>fat. Yes you need fat but you can just eat a greasy burger and think its doing anything good for you. I know you need fat but not nearly in as much quantity as carbs or protein because eating too much fat WILL MAKE YOU FAT whereas if you eat the right kind of carbs and are active 6 days a week they will turn into energy. You want to lower carb intake when cutting BF% because thats when the fat stores are used for energy, when there's no carbs.
Note the word "greasy burger". Since when did I mention unhealthy food in this thread? There's good fat, like the fat you get from nuts, and then there's bad fat that you get from "greasy burgers" if you want to put it that way. Eating nuts and the sort is very good for you, much better than eating a bowl of pasta when building.

Carbs are good, but you can build quite easily without a massive intake of carbs - just the ones you need for the workouts and that's it. Read up Tom Venuto - Burn The Fat, Feed the Muscle if you want more information on that sort of thing.

I don't disagree with you, but you're making wildly generalised statements that are quite incorrect when reading into them.
I'd rather eat a bowl of pasta with no butter than nuts just because the carb intake is so much more. When massing you need .8 g/lb of protein and 2-3g/lb of carbs to successfully gain muscle mass quickly. Of course you will gain bodyfat while doing this which is hard to avoid. That's why you mass in the winter and come february or march you start to cut that excess body fat you gained while massing leaving the muscle you gained (losing some in the process but looking better overall for summer/beach season.) However for fat the intake is much lower being only about .5g/lb because your getting enough energy from the carbs your taking in the fat can be lower. However when you are cutting carbs fat intake must increase to substitute the energy you gained from carbs. So therefore everyone's diet is different depending on their goals. I am in the massing phase of my training so therefore carbs go up and fat goes down. However come march the opposite will happen. It is impossible to build dense massive muscle while trying to cut fat because the nutrients to build muscle simply wont be there.
urdoinitwrong.

but seriously, how much energy do you think you need for an hour of weight lifting?

FYI: if you got your protein from actual foods, that would provide you with energy.  so take out some protein shakes out of your diet, take out some carbs as well, and replace it with egg whites, turkey, chicken, steak, and you're good to go.
farmerfez
o wut?
+78|5607

HaiBai wrote:

farmerfez wrote:

Zimmer wrote:

Note the word "greasy burger". Since when did I mention unhealthy food in this thread? There's good fat, like the fat you get from nuts, and then there's bad fat that you get from "greasy burgers" if you want to put it that way. Eating nuts and the sort is very good for you, much better than eating a bowl of pasta when building.

Carbs are good, but you can build quite easily without a massive intake of carbs - just the ones you need for the workouts and that's it. Read up Tom Venuto - Burn The Fat, Feed the Muscle if you want more information on that sort of thing.

I don't disagree with you, but you're making wildly generalised statements that are quite incorrect when reading into them.
I'd rather eat a bowl of pasta with no butter than nuts just because the carb intake is so much more. When massing you need .8 g/lb of protein and 2-3g/lb of carbs to successfully gain muscle mass quickly. Of course you will gain bodyfat while doing this which is hard to avoid. That's why you mass in the winter and come february or march you start to cut that excess body fat you gained while massing leaving the muscle you gained (losing some in the process but looking better overall for summer/beach season.) However for fat the intake is much lower being only about .5g/lb because your getting enough energy from the carbs your taking in the fat can be lower. However when you are cutting carbs fat intake must increase to substitute the energy you gained from carbs. So therefore everyone's diet is different depending on their goals. I am in the massing phase of my training so therefore carbs go up and fat goes down. However come march the opposite will happen. It is impossible to build dense massive muscle while trying to cut fat because the nutrients to build muscle simply wont be there.
urdoinitwrong.


but seriously, how much energy do you think you need for an hour of weight lifting?

FYI: if you got your protein from actual foods, that would provide you with energy.  so take out some protein shakes out of your diet, take out some carbs as well, and replace it with egg whites, turkey, chicken, steak, and you're good to go.
your not getting it.....
I am eating high protein foods but you cant eat THAT much food and get the amount of protein you need. And if you want intense lift sessions you need that much energy. Carbs also help with massing muscle, Im trying to gain weight not lose it.....

Last edited by farmerfez (2010-11-04 18:01:20)

HaiBai
Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
+304|4560|Bolingbrook, Illinois

farmerfez wrote:

HaiBai wrote:

farmerfez wrote:


I'd rather eat a bowl of pasta with no butter than nuts just because the carb intake is so much more. When massing you need .8 g/lb of protein and 2-3g/lb of carbs to successfully gain muscle mass quickly. Of course you will gain bodyfat while doing this which is hard to avoid. That's why you mass in the winter and come february or march you start to cut that excess body fat you gained while massing leaving the muscle you gained (losing some in the process but looking better overall for summer/beach season.) However for fat the intake is much lower being only about .5g/lb because your getting enough energy from the carbs your taking in the fat can be lower. However when you are cutting carbs fat intake must increase to substitute the energy you gained from carbs. So therefore everyone's diet is different depending on their goals. I am in the massing phase of my training so therefore carbs go up and fat goes down. However come march the opposite will happen. It is impossible to build dense massive muscle while trying to cut fat because the nutrients to build muscle simply wont be there.
urdoinitwrong.


but seriously, how much energy do you think you need for an hour of weight lifting?

FYI: if you got your protein from actual foods, that would provide you with energy.  so take out some protein shakes out of your diet, take out some carbs as well, and replace it with egg whites, turkey, chicken, steak, and you're good to go.
your not getting it.....
I am eating high protein foods but you cant eat THAT much food and get the amount of protein you need. And if you want intense lift sessions you need that much energy. Carbs also help with massing muscle, Im trying to gain weight not lose it.....
just wondering, how many calories do you eat per day?  what percentage of that is carbs, proteins, and fats?  also, how much do you weigh and what's your current body fat percentage?
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|4255|Sydney

Jebus wrote:

@Jaekus, you seem to be doing a lot of cardio. I'm assuming your primary goal is losing fat then? (okay, just read another post, it is )
Also, I've never been a fan of doing cardio before lifting my weights, and quite frankly it can have some negative effects on your training as your cardio ill already have depleted some or all of your glycogen storage, meaning your body has to start burning fat for energy, which I believe isn't advantageous for your lifts..

And if I didn't miss anything, am I correct if I say you only train Biceps/Chest and Shoulders?
Yeah, pretty much all that. I'm trying to lose weight and tone up at the same time. I've working out the chest, shoulders and arms, and the following day doing a few ab exercises that at the moment I'm struggling to complete some of the more difficult ones. I know I should do squats etc but I really can't be bothered right now and they're not on my list of goals. Part of the psychology is to do stuff I want to see results for so I keep motivated and once the routine of working out 6 days a week becomes second nature (which I'm still loving and am about to go downstairs for a session as I just got home from work).

I didn't think it was a lot of cardio though. How much cardio should I be doing? And is it really that bad to do it before weights? Should I do it afterwards?

I did see a personal trainer who started me on a course at the gym about 5 years ago, he got me to do 5 mins cardio then a full body workout, every other day was 1/2 hour of cardio and some core exercises.
wah1188
You orrible caaaaaaan't
+321|5537|UK

Jaekus wrote:

Thanks man
The yoghurt is low fat greek, plain as you can get.

My workout currently consists of this:

Cardio: exercise bike, 8 tension settings, start on tension 4. Go moderately for 45 seconds, then switch it up to 6 and go hard for 30 seconds. Then moderately for 45 seconds, on tension 4 again. I consider this one rep. On my "A" days (mon/wed/fri) I'll do 3 reps, the workout, then another 3 reps. On my "B" days (tues/thurs/sat) I'll do 10 straight reps of cardio, followed by the ab exercises above (I can't get through them all lol, which is a good thing I guess).

Workout: 3 sets of each, dumbbells for all
Biceps curl
Flat chest press
Standing lateral lift
Flat chest flies
Reverse curls
Reverse shoulder flies
Shoulder press
Hmm I prefer to isolate muscle groups on days I'd 3 exercises for each muscle etc.

Chest I do Flat bench, incline and then dumbbell flies I find I don't have enough energy to push all muscles in my body to failure. You have quite a lot different goals I'm not too sure how to advise you really.

Oh and another thing if you want to put on muscle I would say stay off the cardio you're just killing your energy reserves off for the lifting. I'm sure you've heard all this before but if you are just starting try and keep it to compound exercises. You seem to be missing some tricep exercises. I recommend close grip bench press, skullcrushers (you can do french dumbbell presses).

Last edited by wah1188 (2010-11-05 05:14:20)

Jebus
Looking for my Scooper
+218|4841|Belgium

Jaekus wrote:

Yeah, pretty much all that. I'm trying to lose weight and tone up at the same time. I've working out the chest, shoulders and arms, and the following day doing a few ab exercises that at the moment I'm struggling to complete some of the more difficult ones. I know I should do squats etc but I really can't be bothered right now and they're not on my list of goals. Part of the psychology is to do stuff I want to see results for so I keep motivated and once the routine of working out 6 days a week becomes second nature (which I'm still loving and am about to go downstairs for a session as I just got home from work).

I didn't think it was a lot of cardio though. How much cardio should I be doing? And is it really that bad to do it before weights? Should I do it afterwards?

I did see a personal trainer who started me on a course at the gym about 5 years ago, he got me to do 5 mins cardio then a full body workout, every other day was 1/2 hour of cardio and some core exercises.
Even though I acknowledge your goals, I strongly suggest you workout your whole body evenly. So that means working out your back and legs as well. If you don't you'll only regret it later.

About the cardio, it really depends on how intensive you do it. I can go out, do a tabata run and be done with my cardio in less than 15 minutes for that day, but it'll kill me. Regular cardio should be 30 minutes minimum tbh, as you start burning fat around that mark with 'regular' cardio.
HaiBai
Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
+304|4560|Bolingbrook, Illinois

Jaekus wrote:

Jebus wrote:

@Jaekus, you seem to be doing a lot of cardio. I'm assuming your primary goal is losing fat then? (okay, just read another post, it is )
Also, I've never been a fan of doing cardio before lifting my weights, and quite frankly it can have some negative effects on your training as your cardio ill already have depleted some or all of your glycogen storage, meaning your body has to start burning fat for energy, which I believe isn't advantageous for your lifts..

And if I didn't miss anything, am I correct if I say you only train Biceps/Chest and Shoulders?
Yeah, pretty much all that. I'm trying to lose weight and tone up at the same time. I've working out the chest, shoulders and arms, and the following day doing a few ab exercises that at the moment I'm struggling to complete some of the more difficult ones. I know I should do squats etc but I really can't be bothered right now and they're not on my list of goals. Part of the psychology is to do stuff I want to see results for so I keep motivated and once the routine of working out 6 days a week becomes second nature (which I'm still loving and am about to go downstairs for a session as I just got home from work).

I didn't think it was a lot of cardio though. How much cardio should I be doing? And is it really that bad to do it before weights? Should I do it afterwards?

I did see a personal trainer who started me on a course at the gym about 5 years ago, he got me to do 5 mins cardio then a full body workout, every other day was 1/2 hour of cardio and some core exercises.
its ok if you do cardio before you workout.  the thing is, do whatever is most important to you first.  in track, plyometrics is obviously the most important for sprinting, so that was the first thing we did after stretches, warmpups, and drills.

the question of how much cardio you should do depends on your goals.  if you just want to lose fat and gain muscle, eating healthy and lifting should be enough.  if not, you can always do a 90/10 run for around 15 minutes.  so that's jog for 90 seconds, then sprint for 10 seconds, then jog for 90 seconds, etc.  keep that up for 15 minutes.  you could always do long distance running, but if you're trying to work towards bigger and stronger muscles that really doesn't benefit you.
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|5735|BC, Canada
Such a shitty buzz, the last 2 times I've done Chest and Tricepts days, I've been really weak, despite eating properly, sleeping well, and doing good warm ups. Hopefully next week will be better, this week I swapped out close grip benches for dips, and man, do I need some work there. I also lost 4 pounds which I don't like, I was expecting to gain some.
Jebus
Looking for my Scooper
+218|4841|Belgium
Fuck man, shoulder still hurting, what the hell is this shit. Just took a week off (and even 2 extra without shoulder training), hmm...
farmerfez
o wut?
+78|5607

HaiBai wrote:

farmerfez wrote:

HaiBai wrote:


urdoinitwrong.


but seriously, how much energy do you think you need for an hour of weight lifting?

FYI: if you got your protein from actual foods, that would provide you with energy.  so take out some protein shakes out of your diet, take out some carbs as well, and replace it with egg whites, turkey, chicken, steak, and you're good to go.
your not getting it.....
I am eating high protein foods but you cant eat THAT much food and get the amount of protein you need. And if you want intense lift sessions you need that much energy. Carbs also help with massing muscle, Im trying to gain weight not lose it.....
just wondering, how many calories do you eat per day?  what percentage of that is carbs, proteins, and fats?  also, how much do you weigh and what's your current body fat percentage?
About 2500-3000 calories per day. I should be more but meh im over it. As far as macro counting my diet and what I eat changes daily so it's real hard to put an actual number on it. My stats are 5'8 170lbs @ 14-15% BF. Im hopefully going in to get it professionally checked in the next couple of weeks to truly see where I am at. I want to get down to about 6% by June and I'll start cutting probably beginning of March.
I'm not the leanest but I definitely am not a power lifter build, more of a bodybuilder look.
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|4255|Sydney

Jebus wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Yeah, pretty much all that. I'm trying to lose weight and tone up at the same time. I've working out the chest, shoulders and arms, and the following day doing a few ab exercises that at the moment I'm struggling to complete some of the more difficult ones. I know I should do squats etc but I really can't be bothered right now and they're not on my list of goals. Part of the psychology is to do stuff I want to see results for so I keep motivated and once the routine of working out 6 days a week becomes second nature (which I'm still loving and am about to go downstairs for a session as I just got home from work).

I didn't think it was a lot of cardio though. How much cardio should I be doing? And is it really that bad to do it before weights? Should I do it afterwards?

I did see a personal trainer who started me on a course at the gym about 5 years ago, he got me to do 5 mins cardio then a full body workout, every other day was 1/2 hour of cardio and some core exercises.
Even though I acknowledge your goals, I strongly suggest you workout your whole body evenly. So that means working out your back and legs as well. If you don't you'll only regret it later.

About the cardio, it really depends on how intensive you do it. I can go out, do a tabata run and be done with my cardio in less than 15 minutes for that day, but it'll kill me. Regular cardio should be 30 minutes minimum tbh, as you start burning fat around that mark with 'regular' cardio.
Ok, so what other exercises do you recommend? I'm kinda new to all of this, though did go to the gym 5 days a week for about 6 weeks a few years ago, until I hurt my shoulder, took up smoking again and drank every night with a friend who came and stayed for a couple weeks, all within the same week. Found it hard to get back into it then.

I haven't had a smoke in over 2 years, no intention of doing it again and I really want to get some good results from all of this so I'm set on this path, more than ever

I've been doing 20 minutes one day and 12 the other, going hard for 30 seconds, then regular for 90 seconds, repeat.
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|4255|Sydney

HaiBai wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Jebus wrote:

@Jaekus, you seem to be doing a lot of cardio. I'm assuming your primary goal is losing fat then? (okay, just read another post, it is )
Also, I've never been a fan of doing cardio before lifting my weights, and quite frankly it can have some negative effects on your training as your cardio ill already have depleted some or all of your glycogen storage, meaning your body has to start burning fat for energy, which I believe isn't advantageous for your lifts..

And if I didn't miss anything, am I correct if I say you only train Biceps/Chest and Shoulders?
Yeah, pretty much all that. I'm trying to lose weight and tone up at the same time. I've working out the chest, shoulders and arms, and the following day doing a few ab exercises that at the moment I'm struggling to complete some of the more difficult ones. I know I should do squats etc but I really can't be bothered right now and they're not on my list of goals. Part of the psychology is to do stuff I want to see results for so I keep motivated and once the routine of working out 6 days a week becomes second nature (which I'm still loving and am about to go downstairs for a session as I just got home from work).

I didn't think it was a lot of cardio though. How much cardio should I be doing? And is it really that bad to do it before weights? Should I do it afterwards?

I did see a personal trainer who started me on a course at the gym about 5 years ago, he got me to do 5 mins cardio then a full body workout, every other day was 1/2 hour of cardio and some core exercises.
its ok if you do cardio before you workout.  the thing is, do whatever is most important to you first.  in track, plyometrics is obviously the most important for sprinting, so that was the first thing we did after stretches, warmpups, and drills.

the question of how much cardio you should do depends on your goals.  if you just want to lose fat and gain muscle, eating healthy and lifting should be enough.  if not, you can always do a 90/10 run for around 15 minutes.  so that's jog for 90 seconds, then sprint for 10 seconds, then jog for 90 seconds, etc.  keep that up for 15 minutes.  you could always do long distance running, but if you're trying to work towards bigger and stronger muscles that really doesn't benefit you.
I guess I'm trying to lose weight faster so I'm doing cardio too. But essentially I want to lose weight and gain muscle, but not like a bodybuilder, I just don't have the time or want to go that far. Just enough so I can look in the mirror and like what I see.

At the moment I'm about 85kg and 180cm (187lbs, 5'10") with little muscle tone.
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|4255|Sydney
Found this, I was thinking of doing most of them except the inclined exercises as I don't have an incline bench, flat only - http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/du … cises.html

Thoughts? Are doing all of these fine, or would I be overworking some muscle groups? And should I do say chest, shoulders and arms on one day and the back and legs on the other days?

Last edited by Jaekus (2010-11-06 01:59:01)

Jebus
Looking for my Scooper
+218|4841|Belgium
Yeah, that's a start. If I remember correctly you were working out like 6 times a week? You're best to split up the workout then, so you hit one/two muscle groups a day (so you can hit them 'harder' than if you would train all your muscles on one day) and then finish off with cardio for example (which still is your primairy goal).

By the way, what's your current height/weight/bodyfat atm? (I'm sorry if you've said it before, couldn't find it..)
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|4255|Sydney
At the moment I'm about 85kg and 180cm (187lbs, 5'10"). I'd make a really rough guess at maybe 18-20% bodyfat (found a simple test online but I don't have a tape measure, could be more for all I know).

I'd prefer to do the 6 days a week. Partly so I speed up my metabolism and partly to keep me in a routine. I did miss today because I was really hungover (mate's birthday last night). So today is my rest day and tomorrow can be the start of the next week.

So yeah, one I lose the bodyfat I might stop doing the cardio and just focus solely on the weights.

Would you have any suggestions on how I should be splitting up the workout?

Last edited by Jaekus (2010-11-06 09:58:11)

Jebus
Looking for my Scooper
+218|4841|Belgium
I'm not very experienced with that much workout a week (I stick around 3-4 max) so you should ask Sonder or Zimmer how they fit it in their 6 days. Basic idea is to work a larger muscle group (back, chest, legs) combined with a smaller muscle group (shoulders, biceps, triceps) and hit them once or even twice a week, hard.

About the drinking. Bodybuilding is a lifestyle. I'm not saying you should never be drinking alcohol again, but working out is so much more than just training. It's trying to perfect your diet, training, resting period,.. every single time. I see it as a quest to improve myself on so many different levels (not only appearance, but also confidence and other small things in life. On so many occasions I have considered myself to be more successful than others, just because of bodybuilding and the lifestyle changes it's brought. And I haven't been doing it for that long either. ) Remember that you shouldn't be cutting all pleasant things out of your life, but realize that getting wasted every weekend is really going to affect your gains. It just takes a mindset. I can go out with my friends, have an awesome time and only drink 2 beers a night, or even none! It's up to you to decide, it's worth the thought
Zimmer
Un Moderador
+1,688|5832|Scotland

Jaekus wrote:

At the moment I'm about 85kg and 180cm (187lbs, 5'10"). I'd make a really rough guess at maybe 18-20% bodyfat (found a simple test online but I don't have a tape measure, could be more for all I know).

I'd prefer to do the 6 days a week. Partly so I speed up my metabolism and partly to keep me in a routine. I did miss today because I was really hungover (mate's birthday last night). So today is my rest day and tomorrow can be the start of the next week.

So yeah, one I lose the bodyfat I might stop doing the cardio and just focus solely on the weights.

Would you have any suggestions on how I should be splitting up the workout?
Do a 3 and 2 day split with 2 days rest.

Monday, Tuesday
Break
Thursday, Friday, Saturday
Break

Don't exceed. That should be good enough.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,610|5697|London, England
Long story short, I think it's time for me to hop onto the Protein powder/shake bandwagon. But I'm a complete noob when it comes to this, I know there's plenty of good guides on the internet and I've read some about this, but sometimes it's nice to hear from real people.

So where do I begin with this?
Home
Section.80
+447|5924|Seattle, Washington, USA

Mekstizzle wrote:

Long story short, I think it's time for me to hop onto the Protein powder/shake bandwagon. But I'm a complete noob when it comes to this, I know there's plenty of good guides on the internet and I've read some about this, but sometimes it's nice to hear from real people.

So where do I begin with this?
Kind of depends on what you're using it for and how much you want to spend on it. To start, try to get Whey Protein isolate or hydrolysate. Idk if you're trying to buy it locally, online, or what. If online, bodybuilding.com has a pretty good store (but I don't know if that's true for the UK). Optimum Nutrition is a good brand, some people here also reccommend Gaspari Nutrition. You should take it ASAP post-workout. If you have the money, you can take it other times throughout the day too, and there is another kind of protein (casein) that is often used for before you go to bed. But to start, whey protein within an hour of finishing your workout.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,610|5697|London, England
Cheers, yeah Whey protein isolate seems to be the simple starter solution for this. See if I can get something for about 10-20 quid.

http://www.myprotein.com/uk/cats/catego … in_powders

Seems to be a good store that ''mens health uk'' keep recommending. There's impact Whey Protein and then there's the Isolate version. A little research says Isolate has less fat/lactose. But other than that, it's better to save cash and go for regular Whey concentrate instead of isolate...?

It's only like 10 quid for 1Kg of Whey concentrate
Jebus
Looking for my Scooper
+218|4841|Belgium
Don't go for the cheapest brands. I don't know the details, but you can be sure they won't have the same quality as for example Optimum Nutrition..
SonderKommando
Eat, Lift, Grow, Repeat....
+564|5736|The darkside of Denver

Jebus wrote:

Don't go for the cheapest brands. I don't know the details, but you can be sure they won't have the same quality as for example Optimum Nutrition..
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,610|5697|London, England
They have been recommended by various websites and all the reviews and stuff seem to be good for them, they're cheap, but I'm just trying it out anyway. No point splashing out on the premium stuff just yet.

Yeah, I don't think going for super duper PLATINUM HYDRO WHEY is ideal, maybe afterwards...that's some daunting shit right there.

But it's good to know what the good brands are and shit

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2010-11-06 14:58:40)

Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,610|5697|London, England
Actually it's not that much more expensive.

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