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2009-11-12 11:51:08
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6657|USA

cpt.fass1 wrote:

But these "Rich People" keep there money by shipping the jobs out to other countries?

So by saying 8 dollars an hour in labor they aren't keeping the base of consumers they'll need to sell there products?
They don't wnat to ship jobs overseas, but when the govt. is going to assrape you on earnings in this country it makes perfect sense to do so.

Are you really pissed off at the companies for trying NOT to give their profits away, or should you be more pissed at the govt. who is driving them away?
2009-11-12 12:21:00
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6702|NJ
Really they don't "Want" to ship the jobs over seas?

Yes they do, companies want to make the most profit for themselves and for the Shareholders. They don't really even care if they're going to affect the area, companies like wall mart actually put stores in competition with each other to reap as much money as they can..

Also when people aren't making as much cause the major companies don't employ or pay in an area, there's less revenue going into town which means less money to pay for the governments employees. So the Government employees need to raise taxes to cover their expenses, then they have to raise their rate of pay to cover inflation and make a live able wage.. Meanwhile the only people getting affected are the self employed and private citizens trying to make a living.
2009-11-12 12:45:48
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6657|USA

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Really they don't "Want" to ship the jobs over seas?

Yes they do, companies want to make the most profit for themselves and for the Shareholders. They don't really even care if they're going to affect the area, companies like wall mart actually put stores in competition with each other to reap as much money as they can..

Also when people aren't making as much cause the major companies don't employ or pay in an area, there's less revenue going into town which means less money to pay for the governments employees. So the Government employees need to raise taxes to cover their expenses, then they have to raise their rate of pay to cover inflation and make a live able wage.. Meanwhile the only people getting affected are the self employed and private citizens trying to make a living.
If it were not for the excessive taxes levied on US companies BY the US, they would not move over seas. Of course they want to make as much profit as they can, it is after all, why they are in fuckin' business. Or are you one of those people that think companies are started to shell out money and paid beneifts for people out of charity? Let me guess, you think a job is another entitlement or "right", in thios country don't you?
2009-11-12 13:24:37
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6742|Salt Lake City

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Really they don't "Want" to ship the jobs over seas?

Yes they do, companies want to make the most profit for themselves and for the Shareholders. They don't really even care if they're going to affect the area, companies like wall mart actually put stores in competition with each other to reap as much money as they can..

Also when people aren't making as much cause the major companies don't employ or pay in an area, there's less revenue going into town which means less money to pay for the governments employees. So the Government employees need to raise taxes to cover their expenses, then they have to raise their rate of pay to cover inflation and make a live able wage.. Meanwhile the only people getting affected are the self employed and private citizens trying to make a living.
If it were not for the excessive taxes levied on US companies BY the US, they would not move over seas. Of course they want to make as much profit as they can, it is after all, why they are in fuckin' business. Or are you one of those people that think companies are started to shell out money and paid beneifts for people out of charity? Let me guess, you think a job is another entitlement or "right", in thios country don't you?
Get real lowing.  Jobs going overseas have nothing to do with taxes.  They would send them there even if we taxed them nothing at all.  The average Chinese worker makes between $200-400 per month.  Do you really think they would keep those jobs here when they can get those kind of labor costs?
2009-11-12 13:24:49
Wreckognize
Member
+294|6491
Yea, we have plenty of cheap 3rd world labor right here in the US...
2009-11-12 13:43:12
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6702|NJ
So basically the Billionaires of this country are doing business ethically?

Ethical business means understanding that giving your workers livable wages= a happy work force. I'm one of those people that think you have to consider your employees to improve business. Right now allot of people are taking pay cuts, single income family's are a thing of the past and most U.S. employees work 12 hour days to survive and they're being told "hey at least you have a job". Seriously our quality of life in this country is SHIT and it's that way because of Greed.
2009-11-12 14:45:57
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6657|USA

cpt.fass1 wrote:

So basically the Billionaires of this country are doing business ethically?

Ethical business means understanding that giving your workers livable wages= a happy work force. I'm one of those people that think you have to consider your employees to improve business. Right now allot of people are taking pay cuts, single income family's are a thing of the past and most U.S. employees work 12 hour days to survive and they're being told "hey at least you have a job". Seriously our quality of life in this country is SHIT and it's that way because of Greed.
No it is that way because your sense of entitlement is catching up with you. You think you are owed a job. You are not. You even said in your own post companies should "GIVE" you a livable wage. Well the truth is, it is up to you to EARN a livable wage.

Here is another news flash for you. If you are working, it is not YOUR job. It is your employers job, and your employer can decide what that job is worth. If you do not want it, move on down the road.

You are also proving that people think profit is bad, and any one that makes money is doing so immorally or illegally. This is a sign of wealth envy. You can't do it so, if any one is they are morally inferior to you. Time to grow up.
2009-11-12 14:50:42
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6417|'Murka

Sydney wrote:

I like having 38% taxes.
I like being able to check into a hospital without insurance and pay my hospital bill of $20
I like being able to go through university for $250 per year

What I do hate is the 24% VAT
Then you pay more than 38% taxes.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2009-11-12 14:52:25
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6657|USA

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Really they don't "Want" to ship the jobs over seas?

Yes they do, companies want to make the most profit for themselves and for the Shareholders. They don't really even care if they're going to affect the area, companies like wall mart actually put stores in competition with each other to reap as much money as they can..

Also when people aren't making as much cause the major companies don't employ or pay in an area, there's less revenue going into town which means less money to pay for the governments employees. So the Government employees need to raise taxes to cover their expenses, then they have to raise their rate of pay to cover inflation and make a live able wage.. Meanwhile the only people getting affected are the self employed and private citizens trying to make a living.
If it were not for the excessive taxes levied on US companies BY the US, they would not move over seas. Of course they want to make as much profit as they can, it is after all, why they are in fuckin' business. Or are you one of those people that think companies are started to shell out money and paid benefits for people out of charity? Let me guess, you think a job is another entitlement or "right", in thios country don't you?
Get real lowing.  Jobs going overseas have nothing to do with taxes.  They would send them there even if we taxed them nothing at all.  The average Chinese worker makes between $200-400 per month.  Do you really think they would keep those jobs here when they can get those kind of labor costs?
Let me ask you a question.....When you go shopping for a car do you look for a "deal". When you buy a plane ticket do you look for the cheapest seat? If you don't then you are an idiot. If you do, you are a hypocrite. So which is it?


You try to make your money go as far as possible, well so does everyone else. Why is it ok for you, and not for anyone else?
2009-11-12 14:54:44
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6702|NJ
No I'm pretty sure being self employed is my own job, and the employees I have are self employed as well but I make damn sure that they're taken care of, because they the people who make me my money.

Right and when the market is flooded with workers we should lay off all the higher paid employees and hire cheaper labor.. Fuck man I saw it all the time in the IT field, hire experienced soft wear writers get the base program written and then fire them for a collage kid to finish the job. Also that didn't work in my 4 years at Dendrite they never finished the product that they sold and lost most there clients..

Business ethics is that you should take care of the people who help you make money, you don't stab them in the back for something cheaper.. Lowing I really wish I knew what planet you live on?
2009-11-12 14:57:27
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6702|NJ
Lowing aren't you an Helicopter mechinic or something?
2009-11-12 15:20:31
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6657|USA

cpt.fass1 wrote:

No I'm pretty sure being self employed is my own job, and the employees I have are self employed as well but I make damn sure that they're taken care of, because they the people who make me my money.

Right and when the market is flooded with workers we should lay off all the higher paid employees and hire cheaper labor.. Fuck man I saw it all the time in the IT field, hire experienced soft wear writers get the base program written and then fire them for a collage kid to finish the job. Also that didn't work in my 4 years at Dendrite they never finished the product that they sold and lost most there clients..

Business ethics is that you should take care of the people who help you make money, you don't stab them in the back for something cheaper.. Lowing I really wish I knew what planet you live on?
When you get hurt, you will cut your labor costs to save your company. I live on earth, where is it you live where employers absorb the added expenditures to doing business because it ain't on earth.
2009-11-12 15:21:59
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6657|USA

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Lowing aren't you an Helicopter mechinic or something?
I am an aircraft mechanic yes.
2009-11-12 15:23:00
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6657|USA

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:


My company was awarded a contract from the US govt.............and?
The correct answer: the tax payer.
Yeah......................and?
YEAH.......................AND???????????
2009-11-12 15:36:38
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6742|Salt Lake City

lowing wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

lowing wrote:


If it were not for the excessive taxes levied on US companies BY the US, they would not move over seas. Of course they want to make as much profit as they can, it is after all, why they are in fuckin' business. Or are you one of those people that think companies are started to shell out money and paid benefits for people out of charity? Let me guess, you think a job is another entitlement or "right", in thios country don't you?
Get real lowing.  Jobs going overseas have nothing to do with taxes.  They would send them there even if we taxed them nothing at all.  The average Chinese worker makes between $200-400 per month.  Do you really think they would keep those jobs here when they can get those kind of labor costs?
Let me ask you a question.....When you go shopping for a car do you look for a "deal". When you buy a plane ticket do you look for the cheapest seat? If you don't then you are an idiot. If you do, you are a hypocrite. So which is it?


You try to make your money go as far as possible, well so does everyone else. Why is it ok for you, and not for anyone else?
Make up your mind.  Is it taxes driving companies to send jobs overseas, or is it the ability to obtain their products at the lowest possible price?  So yeah, lets cut further into the tax base while the jobs go overseas anyway, all so some executive that already makes a 7 figure salary can get an 8 figure bonus.
2009-11-12 15:37:52
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6702|NJ

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Lowing aren't you an Helicopter mechinic or something?
I am an aircraft mechanic yes.
OK so lets put it this way.. WallMart wants to get into the Aircraft business because hey every ones traveling now a days.. They buy a bunch of planes and helicopters at bulk to get them really cheap, and they start doing there business.. Since wall mart is a multibillion dollar company they undercut all other airline prices by 50% and hire people at min wage to work for them.. Hey if you're in business the best way for you to make money in the future is to put the competition out of business and they'll just write off the loses against one of there profitable businesses.

So now the company that you work for who has years of experience needs to cut there costs, but really can't compete because they're operating at a lost. So now your company which has been in business needs to find a way to cut costs, cut your pay while extending your hours or laying people off. So now your getting shorted on your paychecks but the only option is to see if wallmart will hire you at min wage.

Now that's how Wallmart operates and that's why people can't earn livable wages, it's not like people aren't work it's that they're doing more work for less money.
2009-11-12 15:52:53
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6657|USA

cpt.fass1 wrote:

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Lowing aren't you an Helicopter mechinic or something?
I am an aircraft mechanic yes.
OK so lets put it this way.. WallMart wants to get into the Aircraft business because hey every ones traveling now a days.. They buy a bunch of planes and helicopters at bulk to get them really cheap, and they start doing there business.. Since wall mart is a multibillion dollar company they undercut all other airline prices by 50% and hire people at min wage to work for them.. Hey if you're in business the best way for you to make money in the future is to put the competition out of business and they'll just write off the loses against one of there profitable businesses.

So now the company that you work for who has years of experience needs to cut there costs, but really can't compete because they're operating at a lost. So now your company which has been in business needs to find a way to cut costs, cut your pay while extending your hours or laying people off. So now your getting shorted on your paychecks but the only option is to see if wallmart will hire you at min wage.

Now that's how Wallmart operates and that's why people can't earn livable wages, it's not like people aren't work it's that they're doing more work for less money.
Sorry, I am a licensed aircraft mechanic, if you want me to work on your planes, and that is a must, it is going to cost you.

If you want them to actually fly safe legal and on time,, you need experienced mechanics. You are not going to get that looking for cheap labor around the liquor store.
2009-11-12 15:54:45
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6657|USA

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

lowing wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:


Get real lowing.  Jobs going overseas have nothing to do with taxes.  They would send them there even if we taxed them nothing at all.  The average Chinese worker makes between $200-400 per month.  Do you really think they would keep those jobs here when they can get those kind of labor costs?
Let me ask you a question.....When you go shopping for a car do you look for a "deal". When you buy a plane ticket do you look for the cheapest seat? If you don't then you are an idiot. If you do, you are a hypocrite. So which is it?


You try to make your money go as far as possible, well so does everyone else. Why is it ok for you, and not for anyone else?
Make up your mind.  Is it taxes driving companies to send jobs overseas, or is it the ability to obtain their products at the lowest possible price?  So yeah, lets cut further into the tax base while the jobs go overseas anyway, all so some executive that already makes a 7 figure salary can get an 8 figure bonus.
Taxing the fuck out of repatriated money keeps businesses from bringing that money home. Really it is a combination of things but the common denominator is the cheapest operation cost for the company. Just like you the cheapest airfare, the cheapest price on a car, etc.....
2009-11-12 16:50:27
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6159|what

lowing wrote:

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:


The correct answer: the tax payer.
Yeah......................and?
YEAH.......................AND???????????
So taxes do seem to have some use after all, they keep you employed. And then of course you pay taxes as well as everyone else in that company. See how taxes keep people employed rather than take jobs away because the rich guy decides to go somewhere else?
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2009-11-12 16:56:27
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6657|USA

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

lowing wrote:


Yeah......................and?
YEAH.......................AND???????????
So taxes do seem to have some use after all, they keep you employed. And then of course you pay taxes as well as everyone else in that company. See how taxes keep people employed rather than take jobs away because the rich guy decides to go somewhere else?
Yeah, I sure do, just like cops, postal workers, emt's, teachers, ATC controllers, and you did forget to mention that all of trhese people are also tax payers, they are not leeches. so again I ask..............what is the point you are making, and how does it address the OP?
2009-11-12 17:03:38
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6159|what

lowing wrote:

Yeah, I sure do, just like cops, postal workers, emt's, teachers, ATC controllers, and you did forget to mention that all of trhese people are also tax payers, they are not leeches. so again I ask..............what is the point you are making, and how does it address the OP?
Point is you said in the OP "If taxes are reduced people have more to spend, and they will." which is not true. There is no guarantee they will spend it on a useful product or service that will help your economy. They can and do spend it over seas or may even simply save a larger proportion of their money.

Do you know what the paradox of thrift is?

If you cut taxes across the board all you're doing is taking a lot more out of the system, because of the marginal propensity to save when you have a larger proportion of consumers saving then aggregate demand in the economy falls and then GDP as a result drops as well.

The money that is taxed though can and does get put to use like government investment and projects that keep you in a job and employ everyone of the groups of people you named.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2009-11-12 18:26:18
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6657|USA

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

Yeah, I sure do, just like cops, postal workers, emt's, teachers, ATC controllers, and you did forget to mention that all of trhese people are also tax payers, they are not leeches. so again I ask..............what is the point you are making, and how does it address the OP?
Point is you said in the OP "If taxes are reduced people have more to spend, and they will." which is not true. There is no guarantee they will spend it on a useful product or service that will help your economy. They can and do spend it over seas or may even simply save a larger proportion of their money.

Do you know what the paradox of thrift is?

If you cut taxes across the board all you're doing is taking a lot more out of the system, because of the marginal propensity to save when you have a larger proportion of consumers saving then aggregate demand in the economy falls and then GDP as a result drops as well.

The money that is taxed though can and does get put to use like government investment and projects that keep you in a job and employ everyone of the groups of people you named.
By cutting taxes the goal is to cut fraud waste and abuse. as it is you are endorsing raising taxes for no other reason than, they have it to take. and it is bullshit.


and you do realize when you cut people to the bone, they will save whatever they have left. when they are comfortable with their income they spend.
2009-11-12 18:35:38
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6159|what

lowing wrote:

By cutting taxes the goal is to cut fraud waste and abuse. as it is you are endorsing raising taxes for no other reason than, they have it to take. and it is bullshit.


and you do realize when you cut people to the bone, they will save whatever they have left. when they are comfortable with their income they spend.
By cutting taxes you'll still have fraud/waste and money mismanaged. And worse, services provided by the government will deteriorate that keep people employed. They'll have less to spend on infrastructure, roads, etc that helps all level of consumers/workers. I'm not advocating higher taxes. But I do think lower taxes are not a good idea unless it's for those at the bottom percentile of earners.


And no, when people have less money they spend a larger proportion of their incomes because they can't afford to save. You know why when the government hands out a stimulus package in dollars to the population it's always the lowest who'll receive that money? It's because they are likely to need it and spend it immediately. Not throw it into a bank and let it sit there.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2009-11-12 18:41:27
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6657|USA

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

By cutting taxes the goal is to cut fraud waste and abuse. as it is you are endorsing raising taxes for no other reason than, they have it to take. and it is bullshit.


and you do realize when you cut people to the bone, they will save whatever they have left. when they are comfortable with their income they spend.
By cutting taxes you'll still have fraud/waste and money mismanaged. And worse, services provided by the government will deteriorate that keep people employed. They'll have less to spend on infrastructure, roads, etc that helps all level of consumers/workers. I'm not advocating higher taxes. But I do think lower taxes are not a good idea unless it's for those at the bottom percentile of earners.


And no, when people have less money they spend a larger proportion of their incomes because they can't afford to save. You know why when the government hands out a stimulus package in dollars to the population it's always the lowest who'll receive that money? It's because they are likely to need it and spend it immediately. Not throw it into a bank and let it sit there.
I see, so you admit the fraud waste and abuse and your solution is to simply give them more money instead or create more govt. programs which can further their cause of greater fraud waste and abuse instead of FORCING them to clean it up. No thanks.

Actually in the real world, you have a point here.
2009-11-13 08:41:25
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6702|NJ

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

lowing wrote:


I am an aircraft mechanic yes.
OK so lets put it this way.. WallMart wants to get into the Aircraft business because hey every ones traveling now a days.. They buy a bunch of planes and helicopters at bulk to get them really cheap, and they start doing there business.. Since wall mart is a multibillion dollar company they undercut all other airline prices by 50% and hire people at min wage to work for them.. Hey if you're in business the best way for you to make money in the future is to put the competition out of business and they'll just write off the loses against one of there profitable businesses.

So now the company that you work for who has years of experience needs to cut there costs, but really can't compete because they're operating at a lost. So now your company which has been in business needs to find a way to cut costs, cut your pay while extending your hours or laying people off. So now your getting shorted on your paychecks but the only option is to see if wallmart will hire you at min wage.

Now that's how Wallmart operates and that's why people can't earn livable wages, it's not like people aren't work it's that they're doing more work for less money.
Sorry, I am a licensed aircraft mechanic, if you want me to work on your planes, and that is a must, it is going to cost you.

If you want them to actually fly safe legal and on time,, you need experienced mechanics. You are not going to get that looking for cheap labor around the liquor store.
Yeah like the licensee Airline pilot that my friend is, got pay cut from 70k to 50k probably because he's a higher grade so they're flying the younger guys with smaller hour wages.. So yeah we also know that your bussiness never needed any government hand outs, and is the most stable bussiness out there.

 

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