Off topic, try to stick with what is being discussedM.O.A.B wrote:
If you were going to mistake a training camp, you wouldn't mistake a factory in the middle of the Sudanese capital for one.rammunition wrote:
M.O.A.B wrote:
I think people sometimes forget that 9/11 was not the first encounter with AQ, nor did it start the first attacks on AQ. Cruise missiles were used against Afghan camps in the 90's as well as a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan which were mistaken for training campshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_empirerammunition wrote:
Talking of invasion, the U.S has a history of invading any country that is basically a third world country who are weak. Says more about them.
lol ramm, you always use that one when presented with evidence that Britain has done its fair share of bad shit.rammunition wrote:
Off topic, try to stick with what is being discussedM.O.A.B wrote:
If you were going to mistake a training camp, you wouldn't mistake a factory in the middle of the Sudanese capital for one.rammunition wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_empirerammunition wrote:
Talking of invasion, the U.S has a history of invading any country that is basically a third world country who are weak. Says more about them.
We did our bad shit... Good though.M.O.A.B wrote:
lol ramm, you always use that one when presented with evidence that Britain has done its fair share of bad shit.rammunition wrote:
Off topic, try to stick with what is being discussedM.O.A.B wrote:
If you were going to mistake a training camp, you wouldn't mistake a factory in the middle of the Sudanese capital for one.rammunition wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_empire
Damn colonials.
Rammunition you just got epic fucking owned. Not shut it.M.O.A.B wrote:
If you were going to mistake a training camp, you wouldn't mistake a factory in the middle of the Sudanese capital for one.rammunition wrote:
M.O.A.B wrote:
I think people sometimes forget that 9/11 was not the first encounter with AQ, nor did it start the first attacks on AQ. Cruise missiles were used against Afghan camps in the 90's as well as a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan which were mistaken for training campshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_empirerammunition wrote:
Talking of invasion, the U.S has a history of invading any country that is basically a third world country who are weak. Says more about them.
<3s USA
When it comes to conspiracy theorists, they'll always win. Always. Nothing you can say will change their mind, and they'll instead drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
I love that linedrag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
I don't remember where I heard it before though.
Probably from IRC quotes or something, talking about stupid people.Bradt3hleader wrote:
I love that linedrag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
I don't remember where I heard it before though.
The whole point of the Illuminati, and consequently the Jews, is that each level thinks it is the top level while being in fact unconsciously directed from one level above.jord wrote:
Illuminati invented Judaism, it's a part of their plan. They're on a differant level, a level with no borders, a master level so to speak.
Noob, the tin-foil needs to cover your forehead also.S.Lythberg wrote:
http://www.tfhp.org/images/tinfoil-hat.jpg
Neither Iraq or Afghanistan has anything to offer America but idiocy and opium, but people will believe what they want to believe, forcing the burden of proof on to you, and it is, by nature, impossible to disprove a conspiracy theory.
Fuck Israel
this thread makes me rip my hair
arghhh hulk smash
arghhh hulk smash
Frankly OP you're an ignorant kid. You have no idea what you're talking about. The fact that you are so willing to resolve to violence is just proof of that ignorance and the frustration it induces. I suggest that you calm down and review the matter afresh without taking anything for granted.
With that said, I fear that you will never be able to overcome the brainwashing you've been subjected to, and that instead you will continue to blindly support your current mindset in fear of being mocked for understanding your mistake and change your mind.
With that said, I fear that you will never be able to overcome the brainwashing you've been subjected to, and that instead you will continue to blindly support your current mindset in fear of being mocked for understanding your mistake and change your mind.
ƒ³
Some Saudis crash some planes into some buildings which was planned by some Kuwaiti and the funded by an Afghani billionaire. I know lets go invade Iraq....Bradt3hleader wrote:
You guys just make a total conspiracy out of a simple situation.
Planes crash into their towers, the U.S. is shocked and united, then some idiots half way around the world claim responsibility.
It's like somebody gets an A on a test because he doesn't usually get one - everybody thinks he's cheating or does good blowjobs.
Simple situation turned into something bad
It's funny how the trend goes:
Shocked and united - go off to war
Get sick of war
Find some gay excuse to say the war is a mistake
say the principles of the war are based on a conspiracy so you shouldn't be there
Humans are funny things sometimes.
Oh and thanks for all the Karma
It resulted in Australia though so all is forgiven.jord wrote:
We did our bad shit... Good though.M.O.A.B wrote:
lol ramm, you always use that one when presented with evidence that Britain has done its fair share of bad shit.rammunition wrote:
Off topic, try to stick with what is being discussed
Damn colonials.
My state was founded by Batman. Your opinion is invalid.
LOL, kiddo you for real???Bradt3hleader wrote:
Rammunition you just got epic fucking owned. Not shut it.M.O.A.B wrote:
If you were going to mistake a training camp, you wouldn't mistake a factory in the middle of the Sudanese capital for one.rammunition wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_empirerammunition wrote:
Talking of invasion, the U.S has a history of invading any country that is basically a third world country who are weak. Says more about them.
<3s USA
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=98872&p=1
And learn some vocabulary. Its "Now" not "Not shut it".
Well said, kiddo is mentaloug wrote:
Frankly OP you're an ignorant kid. You have no idea what you're talking about. The fact that you are so willing to resolve to violence is just proof of that ignorance and the frustration it induces. I suggest that you calm down and review the matter afresh without taking anything for granted.
With that said, I fear that you will never be able to overcome the brainwashing you've been subjected to, and that instead you will continue to blindly support your current mindset in fear of being mocked for understanding your mistake and change your mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:W … ed_Kingdomrammunition wrote:
LOL, kiddo you for real???Bradt3hleader wrote:
Rammunition you just got epic fucking owned. Not shut it.M.O.A.B wrote:
If you were going to mistake a training camp, you wouldn't mistake a factory in the middle of the Sudanese capital for one.rammunition wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_empire
<3s USA
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=98872&p=1
And learn some vocabulary. Its "Now" not "Not shut it".Well said, kiddo is mentaloug wrote:
Frankly OP you're an ignorant kid. You have no idea what you're talking about. The fact that you are so willing to resolve to violence is just proof of that ignorance and the frustration it induces. I suggest that you calm down and review the matter afresh without taking anything for granted.
With that said, I fear that you will never be able to overcome the brainwashing you've been subjected to, and that instead you will continue to blindly support your current mindset in fear of being mocked for understanding your mistake and change your mind.
ramm you seem to lose credibility every single time you post. Just about every major war that the US has been involved in, so has the British, plus other countries.
WW1 involved both.
WW2 involved both.
Korean War involved both.
Suez Crisis involved British.
Vietnam involved US and Australia.
Falklands involved British.
Gulf War I involved both plus others.
Bosnia involved both.
Kosovo involved both.
Afghanistan involved both plus others.
Gulf War 2 involved both plus others.
Not to mention you then have the Boer wars, Zulu wars, Anglo-Afghan war, Burma, Sierra Leone, Northern Ireland and others. The UK is just as involved in other countries as the US, so drop the one-sidedness and stop being stubborn.
I have lived and worked in the construction industry as an Architect/ Designer for 22 years. This stuff is laughable when people believe that these buildings were taken down by "controlled" demolition.... it is literally impossible for this to happen.
Quick, what is the tallest building ever demolished by controlled demolition???? Buzzzzzzzz....wrong. Anyway, the tallest building ever demolished by a controlled demolition was a 26 story building in Detroit. Let's say that again. The all time RECORD is 26 stories. So people actually believe that, in one day, our all-knowing, flawless government took down 3 buildings that were 110, 110 and 47 stories high? Without anyone noticing anything? By the way, it takes months to prepare for even buildings the size of 20 stories. What would it take for a building of 110 stories.
People here really need to do some real research with real demolition companies to see how ridiculous these theories are. I have been involved in demolitions and it is quite a task and there is absolutely no way this could have been done secretly and impossible for the buildings to fall as they did with true demolitions. I cant go into details here...or I would write a novel here, But to make a few more points.
1) Demolitions on tall buildings always start from the EXPOSED LEVELS at the bottom and go up. Charges are from bottom to top to control the fall of the building. By the way, if you wanted to destroy buildings, why in the hell care about a controlled demo, just blow it up, let it fall where it may and cause even more destruction. the controlled demo theory is absolute nonsense.
2) Again, 26 stories is the record for height in a controlled demo. The tallest building demoed by other means is around 40 plus stories.
3) I had several friends who lived and worked in New York as police and security firm members. I have seen the pictures they took that day and there is absolute proof that jets hit those buildings. There are pictures of jet parts, jet exterior skin and motor pieces on the ground. These guys witnessed the second plane first hand and one of them was called to work clean up at the pentagon, where again, the inside of the building was full of airline pieces (airline seats, plane parts, etc, etc.) People can view the pictures of the inside of the pentagon, they have been posted all over then net. There is no question in these men's minds that these were all civilian jets.
4) If anyone cares to know, these buildings came down like they should have. What else would you expect? The buildings to fall UP?. Of course they came down and the way they were built helped in the way they fell. All buildings are built basically the same way. Just look at your own house or dorm or wherever you are. Each floor is designed to hold and support that floor ONLY. Each floor only holds its own live and dead load. The first story is NOT built to support the weight of other floors above it. The only part of a building built to support the total weight above is the foundation.
Now, when one floor collapsed at the trade center, then the floor it collapsed onto was now holding two floors, which it was never intended to do and that was all that was needed for a total failure. Fire WEAKENS components of floors, trusses even fasteners and it is totally plausible for fire to be a major factor. NOTHING had to melt, only weaken and when you add the physical damage to even ONE floor, it didnt take much to finish the job.
Why do I waste my breath on this. Because of the total ignorance I see in these threads regarding how things occur in the real world, how demolitions are actually done and what it takes for even small buildings to be demolished. Get educated in Architecture or go talk with a real demo expert before believing some stupid video (loose change) that actually started as a video spoof project before they realized they could make some money from gullible people. Those guys are laughing all the way to the bank.
Anyway, 22 years of experience in this field of study, working with engineers, civilian engineers, demo crews, builders, developers and other architects and I have yet to meet anyone who believes anything other than what actually happened....highjacked planes hitting towers that fell from the damage of the strikes and subsequent damage from the falling debree. It didn't take geniuses to do this, it didn't take a huge, giant sweeping conspiracy to do this. It took a handfull of determined terrorists to do it and even the groups blamed for this acknowledge that they did it.
To the families and victims of 9-11, maybe some day you can rest in peace....because they know the truth, there is nothing more truthful than death.
Quick, what is the tallest building ever demolished by controlled demolition???? Buzzzzzzzz....wrong. Anyway, the tallest building ever demolished by a controlled demolition was a 26 story building in Detroit. Let's say that again. The all time RECORD is 26 stories. So people actually believe that, in one day, our all-knowing, flawless government took down 3 buildings that were 110, 110 and 47 stories high? Without anyone noticing anything? By the way, it takes months to prepare for even buildings the size of 20 stories. What would it take for a building of 110 stories.
People here really need to do some real research with real demolition companies to see how ridiculous these theories are. I have been involved in demolitions and it is quite a task and there is absolutely no way this could have been done secretly and impossible for the buildings to fall as they did with true demolitions. I cant go into details here...or I would write a novel here, But to make a few more points.
1) Demolitions on tall buildings always start from the EXPOSED LEVELS at the bottom and go up. Charges are from bottom to top to control the fall of the building. By the way, if you wanted to destroy buildings, why in the hell care about a controlled demo, just blow it up, let it fall where it may and cause even more destruction. the controlled demo theory is absolute nonsense.
2) Again, 26 stories is the record for height in a controlled demo. The tallest building demoed by other means is around 40 plus stories.
3) I had several friends who lived and worked in New York as police and security firm members. I have seen the pictures they took that day and there is absolute proof that jets hit those buildings. There are pictures of jet parts, jet exterior skin and motor pieces on the ground. These guys witnessed the second plane first hand and one of them was called to work clean up at the pentagon, where again, the inside of the building was full of airline pieces (airline seats, plane parts, etc, etc.) People can view the pictures of the inside of the pentagon, they have been posted all over then net. There is no question in these men's minds that these were all civilian jets.
4) If anyone cares to know, these buildings came down like they should have. What else would you expect? The buildings to fall UP?. Of course they came down and the way they were built helped in the way they fell. All buildings are built basically the same way. Just look at your own house or dorm or wherever you are. Each floor is designed to hold and support that floor ONLY. Each floor only holds its own live and dead load. The first story is NOT built to support the weight of other floors above it. The only part of a building built to support the total weight above is the foundation.
Now, when one floor collapsed at the trade center, then the floor it collapsed onto was now holding two floors, which it was never intended to do and that was all that was needed for a total failure. Fire WEAKENS components of floors, trusses even fasteners and it is totally plausible for fire to be a major factor. NOTHING had to melt, only weaken and when you add the physical damage to even ONE floor, it didnt take much to finish the job.
Why do I waste my breath on this. Because of the total ignorance I see in these threads regarding how things occur in the real world, how demolitions are actually done and what it takes for even small buildings to be demolished. Get educated in Architecture or go talk with a real demo expert before believing some stupid video (loose change) that actually started as a video spoof project before they realized they could make some money from gullible people. Those guys are laughing all the way to the bank.
Anyway, 22 years of experience in this field of study, working with engineers, civilian engineers, demo crews, builders, developers and other architects and I have yet to meet anyone who believes anything other than what actually happened....highjacked planes hitting towers that fell from the damage of the strikes and subsequent damage from the falling debree. It didn't take geniuses to do this, it didn't take a huge, giant sweeping conspiracy to do this. It took a handfull of determined terrorists to do it and even the groups blamed for this acknowledge that they did it.
To the families and victims of 9-11, maybe some day you can rest in peace....because they know the truth, there is nothing more truthful than death.
^ Well said, well said.
DeathBecomesYu, you're missing the point. The kid thinks his country fights wars for freedom. For fucks sake that's the kind of rhetoric you find in Rambo movies. This isn't about whether it was a demolition or not. It's about how the US government has used that attack, how it has capitalized on it. It's about how you are now agreeing - as a society - to give up your civil liberties and how you are apathetic towards the lives that have been lost in the aftermath of the attack.
ƒ³
I understand your point but this post was leading towards conspiracies again and that just ticks me off because of the utter ignorance. Yes, most wars come out of greed....tell me what wars don't start that way? Its either about land, or money, or power or whatever equals that greed. I do believe that America, as with some other countries have fought wars for much more noble reasons. As far as Iraq, time will tell a little more as it goes on...but I find it funny that even when the presidents change...the beat goes on.oug wrote:
DeathBecomesYu, you're missing the point. The kid thinks his country fights wars for freedom. For fucks sake that's the kind of rhetoric you find in Rambo movies. This isn't about whether it was a demolition or not. It's about how the US government has used that attack, how it has capitalized on it. It's about how you are now agreeing - as a society - to give up your civil liberties and how you are apathetic towards the lives that have been lost in the aftermath of the attack.
Now, as far as society losing liberties.....what reasons do we have now? Our government has done nothing to turn the tide...in fact is leaning more towards taking even more away and I don't see war as an excuse. I see health care and the environment as the tools for that currently. Now, I do agree with the OP that there are some really ignorant people that make him pull his hair out over 9-11. I didn't see any of those people quoting truth. When people are spewing utter nonsense like "planes landed, let the people out and the pilots rammed the towers"....to be honest, that is pretty demented thinking. Like it or not...terrorists attacked us that day, for no other reason than we are America...even though many people from all religions and most countries died that day.
To be honest, I just wish we would help our own sometimes if it is all about money, greed and power. Lord knows we need more help in this country than giving it to many others. But again, if we did, America would be yelled at, we are always in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. The OP is correct in defending against stupid, ridiculous conspiracy theories and he has that right. He talks about freedom, the war did have aspects for freedom for many people in that country and they would tell you that too. Yes there were other political reasons as well. Pick your poison....but please leave the conspiracy BS alone when you are defending the other side. That is asinine. People need to use their brains better than going the easy way out with conspiracies.
You know what, after 9/11 this word 'conspiracy' has become demonized. The sad truth is conspiracies happen every day by those in power, and just because a goddamn film said some shit about the towers being demolished we now choose to ignore everything that might be labeled as a conspiracy and that's the biggest mistake imho.
Now if you want to talk about 9/11 in particular, it would be a big mistake to focus on how the towers fell. I don't give a rat's ass how they fell. I care about why. I care about what happened afterwards. What got legitimized and what got outlawed. If your answer to the 'why' is "for no other reason than we are America" then I'm afraid you are deeply ignorant. In order to see why, you have to start thinking beyond your understandable affiliation for your own country, you have to distance yourself and examine facts from many sources with an unbiased attitude.
As for your civil liberties, you have to understand that all forms of government in the current context share more or less the same goals. It's a mistake to differentiate between Republicans and Democrats in these matters. The interests that pull the strings behind both these political parties are the same.
Now if you want to talk about 9/11 in particular, it would be a big mistake to focus on how the towers fell. I don't give a rat's ass how they fell. I care about why. I care about what happened afterwards. What got legitimized and what got outlawed. If your answer to the 'why' is "for no other reason than we are America" then I'm afraid you are deeply ignorant. In order to see why, you have to start thinking beyond your understandable affiliation for your own country, you have to distance yourself and examine facts from many sources with an unbiased attitude.
As for your civil liberties, you have to understand that all forms of government in the current context share more or less the same goals. It's a mistake to differentiate between Republicans and Democrats in these matters. The interests that pull the strings behind both these political parties are the same.
ƒ³
I don't believe the conspiracy theories because a lot of the major ones have been disproved through logical experiments. The only one I see to be somewhat plausible is the JFK assassination.
It's nice to see what some of the people say in DS&T. I've seen some nice information and some good mature comments. Unlike the usual EE. So I'm happy to know people like oug and deathbecomesyou are smart.
I am not sure if this was addressed to me or not, but I will respond to it. I am not sure where you are from, but I am assuming that when you say "your country" then you do not live in the United States. I have heard all the reasons as to why the towers were attacked, beyond conspiracies of course. The problem is that there is so much ignorance and much of it started on that day and CONTINUES even to this day. The "truth" movement is bigger than ever and now we hear even more ridiculous stuff that never even occurred and I have no idea where this stuff is created. You cant simply ignore or forget such an event and it saddens me that people continue to drag that day through the mud for profit and fame, etc.oug wrote:
You know what, after 9/11 this word 'conspiracy' has become demonized. The sad truth is conspiracies happen every day by those in power, and just because a goddamn film said some shit about the towers being demolished we now choose to ignore everything that might be labeled as a conspiracy and that's the biggest mistake imho.
Now if you want to talk about 9/11 in particular, it would be a big mistake to focus on how the towers fell. I don't give a rat's ass how they fell. I care about why. I care about what happened afterwards. What got legitimized and what got outlawed. If your answer to the 'why' is "for no other reason than we are America" then I'm afraid you are deeply ignorant. In order to see why, you have to start thinking beyond your understandable affiliation for your own country, you have to distance yourself and examine facts from many sources with an unbiased attitude.
As for your civil liberties, you have to understand that all forms of government in the current context share more or less the same goals. It's a mistake to differentiate between Republicans and Democrats in these matters. The interests that pull the strings behind both these political parties are the same.
Now, As far as differentiating between Republicans and Democrats....I never said anything about the differences and I do not favor one or the other. To me they are equally disgusting at this point and it is too bad that our government is in the state its in. This government, the one before and probably the next and basically since Bush Sr. are the height of hypocrisy. They will say, do and spend whatever they want regardless if this country agrees or not. These guys care more about the next election or who has power more than the other and all you have to do is look at how they are acting over the health care bill.
You don't live in this country. I live in one of the hardest hit areas in the United States...Michigan. I live in the capital and the car plants here are ghost towns. Everyone I know and care for is being affected and I myself have seen what our own state government has done to this State. It is moronic. As far as my "sources"..my sources are my life experiences. I just turned 40, I have owned and run my own business since 1995 and pay for my own insurance, taxes, etc, etc, etc. I don't need wiki quotes, I don't need fox or msnbc stories or anyone to tell me what the hell is going on.
We live under a corrupt government and nothing has CHANGED as promised. We continue to travel down an ugly road but in the end. I will not sit here and let conspiracy nut balls spewing ridiculous statements and do nothing. I am in a position to educate about this event and I am responding appropriately to the OP. I am not stupid enough not to notice the consequences since then, before then and am not stupid enough to depend on "news" sources for what I believe in. But again, I will not sit here and let stupidity reign, even in these forums about such an important event. Whether we like it or not, it was and always will be an important day and that day should not be dragged through the mud over and over.
Well there's not much I can respond to, so let me just say first off that I see no reason why my opinion should be of lesser value due to my location. Also I consider the media to be instrumental in forming everyone's opinion to a degree, in the sense that they many a time manage to set the basis of an argument. Case in point, all those people who have reason to doubt the government position and its motives are focusing on the towers and other such trivial matters while failing to see the bigger picture. I would count that as a victory for the media against free thinking.
ƒ³
for the sake of length, i have edited, but it's good to see someone with background making an argument.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
{real science here}
To the families and victims of 9-11, maybe some day you can rest in peace....because they know the truth, there is nothing more truthful than death.
However, no amount of pictures of charred plane wheels, jet engine parts, known behavior of construction grade steel at 500 degrees after plastic deformation, or simple physics will convince conspiracy theorists that they aren't super cool and smarter than everyone.
These are the same people who believe the moon landing was faked, even if you hand them a moon rock
These are the same people who think that area 51 is anything other than an experimental aircraft testing ground
No amount of evidence will persuade them, it's best to just ignore them and get on with your life