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Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,966|3731|London, England

uziq wrote:

the only people who do drugs are desperate to fit in! !!!!
Mostly, yes. Fit into the mainstream? No. Fit in with self-styled libertines and rebels and artists? Absolutely. This doesn't apply to self-medicating middle aged people who are trying to bomb themselves into oblivion to avoid their depression. But it does apply to you.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+170|1825
my exposure to and introduction to drugs was through music. lots of music scenes and cultural experiences involve drug consumption, or a drug rite. did all those people taking MDMA in the 1990s at raves 'just want to fit in'? that's an awful lot of insecure people. you're making out like i got into heroin and started wearing a leather jacket and walking around the village, like it became part of 'my identity'. drugs are just part of certain experiences – sure, maybe youth culture experiences specifically – but i don't think the people taking them in those circumstances are (a) losing control of their lives to inevitably end up in rehab, pace shahter, or (b) self-styling themselves in a desperate effort to 'fit in'. take a pill at a rave and you'll get it.

there's also a shitload of drugs in the workplace that are accepted in various careers. alcohol, mainly, of course. but also lots of cocaine in the restaurant/hospitality trade, for instance, or finance. those people aren't trying to 'fit in' or cultivate some rebel-artiste drug-taking persona. they are just around, 'supplements', like i said, not some huge symbolic act. these things really become normalised so quickly within certain milieux, and nobody bats an eyelid. life goes on as normal. that seems like the adult and mature way to approach it, tbh, not to make scare-stories about everyone getting addicted or to claim that they're all insecure social tryhards who can't enjoy life without drugs!!!!

Last edited by uziq (2019-02-19 08:18:41)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,966|3731|London, England

uziq wrote:

my exposure to and introduction to drugs was through music. lots of music scenes and cultural experiences involve drug consumption, or a drug rite. did all those people taking MDMA in the 1990s at raves 'just want to fit in'? that's an awful lot of insecure people. you're making out like i got into heroin and started wearing a leather jacket and walking around the village, like it became part of 'my identity'. drugs are just part of certain experiences – sure, maybe youth culture experiences specifically – but i don't think the people taking them in those circumstances are (a) losing control of their lives to inevitably end up in rehab, pace shahter, or (b) self-styling themselves in a desperate effort to 'fit in'. take a pill at a rave and you'll get it.

there's also a shitload of drugs in the workplace that are accepted in various careers. alcohol, mainly, of course. but also lots of cocaine in the restaurant/hospitality trade, for instance, or finance. those people aren't trying to 'fit in' or cultivate some rebel-artiste drug-taking persona. they are just around, 'supplements', like i said, not some huge symbolic act. these things really become normalised so quickly within certain milieux, and nobody bats an eyelid. life goes on as normal. that seems like the adult and mature way to approach it, tbh, not to make scare-stories about everyone getting addicted or to claim that they're all insecure social tryhards who can't enjoy life without drugs!!!!
Everyone is insecure to some extent, especially people trying to fit in with trendy crowds. There is always social pressure to conform within whatever group identity that people choose to fit in with. That's not a criticism, it's just reality. It's why peer pressure and shaming and other social pressure works. People don't like being made fun of or embarrassed or feeling like they don't belong. If you choose to be part of a libertine crowd you'll be expected to do things that may make you uncomfortable to fit in.

But yes, you in particular have always been especially insecure. There was a period of years here where everything you wrote was basically narcissistic preening because you wanted to prove how cool and erudite you were. It usually goes away with maturity, and for you it has, so good on you.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+170|1825
erudite preening lmao. my posting peak on these forums was when i was a pre-university student. weren’t you learning the difference between a spanner and a hammer at a vocational college and writing essays in d&st on hegel?

it’s ironic that i’m being accused of having drug issues stemming from deep problems by the son of an alcoholic deadbeat and being called preening by a guy who thought it was awsm to sign up to these forums under an ayn rand handle. thanks for your gentle condescension about ‘growing up’ but you were doing that shit at a much older age than my 16 year old self being ‘erudite’ and flaming people.

nothing i said was particularly personal or controversial. for some reason people like you and dilbert are especially fearful of these hot topics. it’s really funny to me that you really think people in ‘cool’ crowds try drugs because they’re afraid of losing face and not being seen as ‘fitting in’. people really don’t care about this stuff in any major way. you only belie your own personal history and touchiness by being so quick to be a twot about it.

Last edited by uziq (2019-02-19 11:29:19)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,966|3731|London, England
Nah
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+712|5058|United States of America
I saw a "x years ago" thing I posted in college a few days ago where I was pondering whether the prevalence of people offering you drugs was vastly overstated, or that I was just so far removed that it wasn't even a possibility. I was offered marijuana twice, though, and that has jumped to a grand total of 3 times since I've been out.
Finray
Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro
+2,620|4162|Catherine Black
I met one of my most often used dealers at a party, he gave me half a pill for nowt. It wasn't ever a "get em hooked" play, but we laughed about it later because it turned out that way.

I guess it depends on your crowd. Good druggy people (weed, party drugs) always like to share. Bad druggy people (meth, heroin) won't. People who don't do drugs won't offer you any (shock horror).
https://i.imgur.com/qwWEP9F.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,620|4479|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

lots of music scenes and cultural experiences involve drug consumption,
all those people taking MDMA in the 1990s at raves
drugs are just part of certain experiences – sure, maybe youth culture experiences specifically
lots of cocaine in the restaurant/hospitality trade, for instance, or finance.
Its funny how specific drug consumption is associated with certain cliques, just as certain clothing, behaviour, etc often is.

Is it peer pressure or people wanting to fit in to the clique? Or people with specific predispositions gravitate to certain cliques?

Bankers drink a lot of champagne for example, is it because people who like champagne gravitate towards being bankers or ordering champagne in the club announces "I'm part of the banker clique"? Bearing in mind a lot of champagne is pretty ordinary and there are better sparkling wines out there without the name
Same question for cocaine.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-02-20 00:46:10)

Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,620|4479|eXtreme to the maX

Finray wrote:

I met one of my most often used dealers at a party, he gave me half a pill for nowt. It wasn't ever a "get em hooked" play, but we laughed about it later because it turned out that way.
I'm sure it was hilarious, have you totalled up how much you paid him over the years?
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
uziq
Member
+170|1825

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

lots of music scenes and cultural experiences involve drug consumption,
all those people taking MDMA in the 1990s at raves
drugs are just part of certain experiences – sure, maybe youth culture experiences specifically
lots of cocaine in the restaurant/hospitality trade, for instance, or finance.
Its funny how specific drug consumption is associated with certain cliques, just as certain clothing, behaviour, etc often is.

Is it peer pressure or people wanting to fit in to the clique? Or people with specific predispositions gravitate to certain cliques?

Bankers drink a lot of champagne for example, is it because people who like champagne gravitate towards being bankers or ordering champagne in the club announces "I'm part of the banker clique"? Bearing in mind a lot of champagne is pretty ordinary and there are better sparkling wines out there without the name
Same question for cocaine.
i think you need to think a little deeper about it. human beings have congregated in social gatherings and rituals for the sole purpose of intoxication for as long as we’ve been a species. the fact you can only apprehend the ‘drug experience’ on the level of ‘people trying too hard to be fashionable’ betrays a slight paucity of imagination. i can recommend you some very good anthropology books on the role of ecstasy in religion and pre-religious life if you like. are all the men of an amazonian tribe who gather once a week to get out of their gourds on DMT-containing vines just ‘desperate to fit in’?

people taking drugs has always been a thing and always will be. the fact it has been a constantly expressed need and desire throughout all cultures in history suggests it’s probably a constant of our nature, and not some shallow ‘desperate teenagers who are insecure’ thing. after food, shelter, and sex, the next thing on the maslow’s hierarchy would seem to be finding some means of getting absolutely mashed. that we’ve developed industrialised and hi-tech means of doing so, rather than letting the women of the tribe spit on some barely digestible root nonstop for 3 days so that it ferments into a disgusting alcoholic beverage, is besides the point.

i’m sure people do end up identifying with certain sub-cultures on an unconscious level. it’s part of identity formation, sure. but is it any more risible becoming a champagne-swilling banker at charity do than it is being the stereotypical engineer autist who has never ‘understood’ the bright young things crowd? (i note by the way that these drug-taking stereotypes are always negative and comical: what about average joes who get together every week to drink alcohol at a bar, the ordinary college kid who goes to keg parties and gets plastered?) you’ve fled your whole life into the safety of that convenient identity tag, too, the guy who is ‘just too rational’ to do anything like that even though it’s clear that it’s part of human life to lose control and enjoy relinquishing that rationality, from time to time, too.  it’s not some big insight. you speak down to these people as if they’re pathetic and shallow but i hardly see how you’re so wise and well-adjusted.

Last edited by uziq (2019-02-20 01:04:08)

Finray
Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro
+2,620|4162|Catherine Black

Dilbert_X wrote:

Finray wrote:

I met one of my most often used dealers at a party, he gave me half a pill for nowt. It wasn't ever a "get em hooked" play, but we laughed about it later because it turned out that way.
I'm sure it was hilarious, have you totalled up how much you paid him over the years?
no but I did a back-of-the-napkin maths on just grass and I'm over £15k
https://i.imgur.com/qwWEP9F.png
uziq
Member
+170|1825
that is very depressing finray.
Finray
Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro
+2,620|4162|Catherine Black
agreed! it's the main reason I'm packing it in.

on the flip side, it was a very effective coping mechanism.
https://i.imgur.com/qwWEP9F.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,620|4479|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

lots of music scenes and cultural experiences involve drug consumption,
all those people taking MDMA in the 1990s at raves
drugs are just part of certain experiences – sure, maybe youth culture experiences specifically
lots of cocaine in the restaurant/hospitality trade, for instance, or finance.
Its funny how specific drug consumption is associated with certain cliques, just as certain clothing, behaviour, etc often is.

Is it peer pressure or people wanting to fit in to the clique? Or people with specific predispositions gravitate to certain cliques?

Bankers drink a lot of champagne for example, is it because people who like champagne gravitate towards being bankers or ordering champagne in the club announces "I'm part of the banker clique"? Bearing in mind a lot of champagne is pretty ordinary and there are better sparkling wines out there without the name
Same question for cocaine.
i think you need to think a little deeper about it. human beings have congregated in social gatherings and rituals for the sole purpose of intoxication for as long as we’ve been a species. the fact you can only apprehend the ‘drug experience’ on the level of ‘people trying too hard to be fashionable’ betrays a slight paucity of imagination. i can recommend you some very good anthropology books on the role of ecstasy in religion and pre-religious life if you like. are all the men of an amazonian tribe who gather once a week to get out of their gourds on DMT-containing vines just ‘desperate to fit in’?

people taking drugs has always been a thing and always will be. the fact it has been a constantly expressed need and desire throughout all cultures in history suggests it’s probably a constant of our nature, and not some shallow ‘desperate teenagers who are insecure’ thing. after food, shelter, and sex, the next thing on the maslow’s hierarchy would seem to be finding some means of getting absolutely mashed. that we’ve developed industrialised and hi-tech means of doing so, rather than letting the women of the tribe spit on some barely digestible root nonstop for 3 days so that it ferments into a disgusting alcoholic beverage, is besides the point.

i’m sure people do end up identifying with certain sub-cultures on an unconscious level. it’s part of identity formation, sure. but is it any more risible becoming a champagne-swilling banker at charity do than it is being the stereotypical engineer autist who has never ‘understood’ the bright young things crowd? (i note by the way that these drug-taking stereotypes are always negative and comical: what about average joes who get together every week to drink alcohol at a bar, the ordinary college kid who goes to keg parties and gets plastered?) you’ve fled your whole life into the safety of that convenient identity tag, too, the guy who is ‘just too rational’ to do anything like that even though it’s clear that it’s part of human life to lose control and enjoy relinquishing that rationality, from time to time, too.  it’s not some big insight. you speak down to these people as if they’re pathetic and shallow but i hardly see how you’re so wise and well-adjusted.
I've never made any claims about myself, I've just never had any compunction to take drugs besides alcohol, and I've had plenty of that.
I understand crowds fine, I just fit in to a different one to you.

Beyond alcohol, I personally believe that people who seek out drugs are doing so because they have something missing from their brain chemistry (compunction) in which case they are basically ill, or aspire to fit into some clique (social) if so they are not 'pathetic and shallow' but needy and prepared to do dumb things to achieve an acceptance they could find in other ways.

And yes stone age tribes have used natural substances, that doesn't equate with educated people creating designer cocktails in a lab for entertainment.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,620|4479|eXtreme to the maX

Finray wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Finray wrote:

I met one of my most often used dealers at a party, he gave me half a pill for nowt. It wasn't ever a "get em hooked" play, but we laughed about it later because it turned out that way.
I'm sure it was hilarious, have you totalled up how much you paid him over the years?
no but I did a back-of-the-napkin maths on just grass and I'm over £15k
That one pill was a good investment then.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
uziq
Member
+170|1825
nobody gets into smoking weed every day because they took a pill. that’s an entirely different experience. you really are naive.

and why does wanting to try a drug betray some psychological ‘fault’ or ‘need’ in a person’s life? so anyone who enjoys the buzz of alcohol on a weekend has issues with compunction? it’s really no different. some people love the communal feeling of togetherness and elation that comes from taking MDMA at a rave or a festival. it’s a positive bonding experience and a euphoric occasion. why does there have to be an underlying issue or fault with their brain chemistry? on the contrary, our brains are set up to enjoy being tickled in this way.

it’s funny to me that alcohol is an exception, ‘beyond alcohol’, because you happen to enjoy that substance and it’s social use is approved and not subject to a taboo. well done. alcohol damages far more lives and is far more toxic to the human body than most drugs we are discussing here. but sure, people who want to take acid or mdma have a problem with their brains, not people like you who meet frequently to get drunk and poison themselves.

there’s really no difference between a ‘designer cocktail’ drug and people taking ayahuasca in the pre-history of civilisation. i’m sure i don’t have to explain basic chemistry to an engineer. the natural/synthetic dichotomy is moronic. a natural vine or mushroom in the amazon can fuck you up a whole lot more than an acid that is synthesized in a high-tech process from ergot. the ‘designer drug’ is physiologically harmless in this case. don’t be illiterate.

Last edited by uziq (2019-02-20 04:35:29)

SuperJail Warden
Member
+197|2093
Alcohol is just awful compared to many drugs. Hangovers, vomiting, dizziness, etc. that come with alcohol are awful. People are also way more prone to violence when drinking than smoking pot.

You can manage a pot addiction while working depending on your job. Which makes it more and less dangerous at the same time. If I smoked a bunch tonight, I would wake up tomorrow morning well rested and relaxed. If I drank a lot tonight, I won't be able to get out of bed tomorrow. This leads to more use since it is easy to fit it into your life which is dangerous.
Finray
Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro
+2,620|4162|Catherine Black

Dilbert_X wrote:

Finray wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:


I'm sure it was hilarious, have you totalled up how much you paid him over the years?
no but I did a back-of-the-napkin maths on just grass and I'm over £15k
That one pill was a good investment then.
lul

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Alcohol is just awful compared to many drugs. Hangovers, vomiting, dizziness, etc. that come with alcohol are awful. People are also way more prone to violence when drinking than smoking pot.

You can manage a pot addiction while working depending on your job. Which makes it more and less dangerous at the same time. If I smoked a bunch tonight, I would wake up tomorrow morning well rested and relaxed. If I drank a lot tonight, I won't be able to get out of bed tomorrow. This leads to more use since it is easy to fit it into your life which is dangerous.
you're so spot on. I'd easily have been an alcoholic if grass didn't exist. I've always felt like I needed the "brain tickling/getting mashed" uzi describes on a nightly basis, and if it hadn't been for grass being able to provide that in a relatively safe manner, I'd probably be dead right now honestly. But it does come with a cost, £15k and my productivity for the past 5? years.
https://i.imgur.com/qwWEP9F.png
uziq
Member
+170|1825
it sounds like you have/had a drug dependency. i’m saying people can indulge in getting high without lapsing into abuse. most people enjoy getting high because it’s fun. duh.
Finray
Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro
+2,620|4162|Catherine Black
Yeah, I know, I was just making the case for shatners argument "if you have get fucked in the head to enjoy life, you are doing it wrong.", the important part being have. I'm sure you'll agree that if you're having to abuse some substance, alcohol, weed, whatever, every single day, then you're doing it wrong.

Like I said, I think you're all right, and it depends upon the circumstances.
https://i.imgur.com/qwWEP9F.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,620|4479|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

nobody gets into smoking weed every day because they took a pill. that’s an entirely different experience. you really are naive.

and why does wanting to try a drug betray some psychological ‘fault’ or ‘need’ in a person’s life? so anyone who enjoys the buzz of alcohol on a weekend has issues with compunction? it’s really no different. some people love the communal feeling of togetherness and elation that comes from taking MDMA at a rave or a festival. it’s a positive bonding experience and a euphoric occasion. why does there have to be an underlying issue or fault with their brain chemistry? on the contrary, our brains are set up to enjoy being tickled in this way.

it’s funny to me that alcohol is an exception, ‘beyond alcohol’, because you happen to enjoy that substance and it’s social use is approved and not subject to a taboo. well done. alcohol damages far more lives and is far more toxic to the human body than most drugs we are discussing here. but sure, people who want to take acid or mdma have a problem with their brains, not people like you who meet frequently to get drunk and poison themselves.

there’s really no difference between a ‘designer cocktail’ drug and people taking ayahuasca in the pre-history of civilisation. i’m sure i don’t have to explain basic chemistry to an engineer. the natural/synthetic dichotomy is moronic. a natural vine or mushroom in the amazon can fuck you up a whole lot more than an acid that is synthesized in a high-tech process from ergot. the ‘designer drug’ is physiologically harmless in this case. don’t be illiterate.
Alcohol is something we've adapted to fairly well over millenia.
Milk on the other hand may take a few thousand years more.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2019021 … -cows-milk

But of course whatever your buddy who says he has a PhD in something cooks up in his basement will be perfectly OK straight out of the tube.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
uziq
Member
+170|1825
we've 'adapted' to alcohol? really? it's still a poison that causes damage to the liver and brain. it is factually worse for you than a molecule of MDMA or LSD. i also really don't think you know much about the manufacture of LSD, which isn't exactly amateur stuff and isn't undertaken by 'breaking bad' types. you can read people with PhDs discussing the process online in any number of dark web boards.

read a report. you like those.
https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/publ … y-business

'development of a rational scale to assess the harm of drugs of potential misuse' in the lancet.
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio … ial_misuse

https://i.imgur.com/hasJI7P.png
https://i.imgur.com/2LokYZy.png

Last edited by uziq (2019-02-22 10:03:41)

SuperJail Warden
Member
+197|2093
One of my friends from high school got arrested for marijuana possession with intent to distribute within a thousand feet of a school. Not the worst charge in the world but they hit him with 10 counts of attempted burglary, possession of burglary tools, possession of unlawful weapon, possession of heroin, and possession of prescription medication at the same time.

Really nice dude but holy shit are they going to put the guy under the jail. Which is why nothing good ever comes from dealing with H.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,792|5005|949

sounds like the marijuana possession wasn't the most egregious of his mistakes.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+197|2093
I heard one of my students talking about being high before coming to my class. I made a joke about his name later and he just looked at me slanted eyed and laughed. He then struggled to each a breakfast sandwich in class to my amusement.

If the kid only knew I was going to smoke up after school myself...

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