BF2S Forums College/University Homework Help Thread v1.0

okay, thanks for clarifying. i have no disagreements with that post. the same sort of people are occupying london over here. people "sick of the system" who went to eton college and are simply tired of doing their 3rd inane internship at a hedge fund and not having their first porsche yet.

Jay wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

The minimum number I've seen for the US 1% is apparently $350k, which really doesn't seem like a lot, especially if you're somewhere with a high cost of living. Apparently the average is skewed further upwards by the super rich to about $950k per annum.

Jay, all I've got to say is your interpretation of the American Dream surely differs from that of others.

You're right, my version is the immigrants American Dream. To give your kids a better life than you yourself had as a child. To amass wealth and pass it down. To create stability for future generations. My grandparents are all immigrants and my mom's parents raised me for much of my childhood.

That's basically my goal in life is to be better off than my parents are. Already all of us kids were given the opportunity to college, which is more I can say about my parents. In my mind, the immigrants version of the American Dream is to find opportunities not available in your homeland and being able to have some land to call your own (seems rather 19th century, doesn't it?). My family emigrated in the '20s and my grandparents were all born here, but we're still pretty much on the same track. Each successive generation striving to do a littler better than the previous. My maternal grandparents both died within the past 5 years and medical expenses from each (cancer, stroke + slow decline) pretty muched wiped out most benefits for their 6 kids. Most of us 13 grandchildren are in/recently graduated from college and surviving more or less. Not really sure what point I'm trying to make; maybe that a lot of people just want to improve upon the situation from which they grew up.

DesertFox- wrote:

Jay wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

The minimum number I've seen for the US 1% is apparently $350k, which really doesn't seem like a lot, especially if you're somewhere with a high cost of living. Apparently the average is skewed further upwards by the super rich to about $950k per annum.

Jay, all I've got to say is your interpretation of the American Dream surely differs from that of others.

You're right, my version is the immigrants American Dream. To give your kids a better life than you yourself had as a child. To amass wealth and pass it down. To create stability for future generations. My grandparents are all immigrants and my mom's parents raised me for much of my childhood.

That's basically my goal in life is to be better off than my parents are. Already all of us kids were given the opportunity to college, which is more I can say about my parents. In my mind, the immigrants version of the American Dream is to find opportunities not available in your homeland and being able to have some land to call your own (seems rather 19th century, doesn't it?). My family emigrated in the '20s and my grandparents were all born here, but we're still pretty much on the same track. Each successive generation striving to do a littler better than the previous. My maternal grandparents both died within the past 5 years and medical expenses from each (cancer, stroke + slow decline) pretty muched wiped out most benefits for their 6 kids. Most of us 13 grandchildren are in/recently graduated from college and surviving more or less. Not really sure what point I'm trying to make; maybe that a lot of people just want to improve upon the situation from which they grew up.

I pretty much have the same story. None of my moms family (she has six brothers) went to college, they all got jobs in trades, but all but one of their adult children has now graduated from college. I feel really proud of all of my cousins

Uzique wrote:

i'm pretty sure that's a more universal sentiment than to be exclusively american, and i'm also pretty sure it predates 1776.

the american dream, to me, is about individualism more than anything else. unfettered self-advancement. a la in the mode of late capitalism a cushty middle-class yuppie job and all the selfish personal luxuries you could want. that is the ultimate logical endpoint of the american dream in the age of consumerism and conspicuous consumption, imo. though of course i am not american, and have the view that what started out as a noble ideal has become dirtied by the marketplace it flourishes in.

No, not really. While individualism does play a part, it's a lot more family focused than you give it credit for. Most of us want to succeed as a collective, but our collectives are limited in scope to our personal genetic clan and our friends. The character portrayed by Daniel Day-Lewis in There Will Be Blood is the exception rather than the rule. John D Rockefeller was a family man that donated millions of his own wealth to charity, attended church every Sunday, etc. Andrew Mellon was also a family man, and donated his collection of art and much of his wealth to build the National Art Gallery in DC. Andrew Carnegie also ended his life as a great philanthropist. The American Dream is not me me me me me me behavior, it's the opposite.

all of those 'great men' and their public acts were about sealing their name for posterity. it's the ultimate act of the capitalist ego. i wouldn't call any of them saints - they lived lives of immense wealth and huge privilege and gave away some shit at the end of their lives as much as to remain for perpetuity as for love for their poor fellow man.

Macbeth wrote:

John D Rock only started to do the whole charity thing once he was started being on the shit end of a public relations assault. It's disingenuous to claim he was a man of charity. Some o his quotes regarding his wealth would make Ayn Rand blush.

He was donating from his first paycheck.

God gave me my money. I believe the power to make money is a gift from God, to be developed and used to the best of our ability for the good of mankind. – John D Rockefeller

"Johns moral code compelled him through out his life, to share his wealth with his church, missions, scientists (who found cures for yellow fever, meningitis, and hookworm), building schools, including donations abroad.
His greatest total giving within a year was 138,000,000. He retired at age 60 to enjoy his family and personal interests such as gardening, golf, dancing (tango), and horseback riding. Despite his desire to live 100 years died in his sleep at the age of 98. By the end of his days he had given away 550M dollars."
From "Myth of the Robber Barons"

Last edited by Jay (2011-11-06 09:19:51)

Uzique wrote:

i'm extremely skeptical of all these rich christians saying how humble and meek they are. yes, they did good acts. but they were likely very ruthless and self-interested in their ascension to wealth and power. look at bill gates. he ruined lots of people's lives and fucked over a lot of small businesses in his single-minded vision of securing microsoft's monopoly. then when he had more money than he could ever spend, he decided to start giving some away. to be honest, you'd expect a token of good will like that after such an individual quest.

Whose life did he ruin? There's nothing wrong with outcompeting your competition, and there's no reason to lament the competitors that lost along the way. Why? Because the consumer ultimately benefitted from a superior product and the consolidation of the computer market onto a single platform that made software development easier. Efficiency sucks for his competitors, but it benefits the consumer and that's what is ultimately most important.

Uzique wrote:

Jay wrote:

You pretty much summed up why OWS exists.

So you want less efficiency, higher priced goods, and lower wages?

Uzique wrote:

i think there's a fair and healthy medium. i rarely see how monopolisation is a good thing.

It's never permanent without government help. Keep government out of business and you have no fear of monopolies. Natural monopolies only exist by cutting costs and improving quality. Government sponsored monopolies have zero incentive to do either, and normally do the opposite.

Uzique wrote:

okay, thanks for clarifying. i have no disagreements with that post. the same sort of people are occupying london over here. people "sick of the system" who went to eton college and are simply tired of doing their 3rd inane internship at a hedge fund and not having their first porsche yet.

all the rich brits i know here went to eton college

quite a few of my friends did, too. it's not the only good school. it's just the metonym for a class and system of education that is very upper-middle class. think phillips exeter academy.

Last edited by Uzique (2011-11-06 10:07:20)

Uzique wrote:

HaiBai wrote:

Uzique wrote:

this is the thing that makes you sound like androoz - you read about a few exemplary individuals that went it alone and managed to become huge successes because of their special talent and 'right time, right place' intuition. you hear about people like steve jobs, or thinkers like sagan in androoz's case ('if he can smoke weed and be smart, so can i!') and think that anything is possible. what you don't hear about whilst doing your 'research' on the internet is the 99% of people that failed miserably. don't something like 75% of all business start-ups fail within the first 5 years? that's a lot of broke-ass misery for every shining-star genius that comes along. having a college degree makes a lot of sense, because it's something that equips you with a decent level of qualification for your entire life. but if you want to wing it based on self-confidence alone... good luck.

actually, i do know that 90% of businesses fail.  i don't plan on starting one business, i plan on starting many, because i know i will fail hard.  anyway, it's not like i expect to create the next microsoft, apple, google, or facebook.  the chance that i become a millionaire is very low.

the reason i want to create a business is because it just seems like fun.  it's something that i'd be willing to work for and would enjoy doing.

right. so to maximize your chances of success you're going to start 10 businesses, instead of 1, so when 9 fail you'll still be making money? and where will you get the capital for multiple business ventures? where will you even get the capital for your first step into the entrepreneurial world? this all seems a little bit high-falutin' and detached from any financial reality. even my student debts from 5 years of studying and 2 degrees seems modest in comparison to the start-up investment of a business.

i don't know man, i haven't thought about this that much, and i really don't need to.  i'm doubt i'm going to attempt a startup for another 15-20 years.  this is just something that i think it'd be cool to do.

Macbeth wrote:

Haibai you can hookup with Mitch. He plans on becoming a venture capitalist.

Androoz too