They both got paid more than what the job was actually worth was the point Spark. Artifically inflated salaries by uninon extortionSpark wrote:
And so you actually think they get paid the same?lowing wrote:
Well since the floor sweeper has about as much talent as the guy that installs the floor mats, or the wiper blades at the same pay scale, I think my point is made.Spark wrote:
Yes because they only employ floor sweepers
Artificially inflated consumer prices by inflation.lowing wrote:
They both got paid more than what the job was actually worth was the point Spark. Artifically inflated salaries by uninon extortionSpark wrote:
And so you actually think they get paid the same?lowing wrote:
Well since the floor sweeper has about as much talent as the guy that installs the floor mats, or the wiper blades at the same pay scale, I think my point is made.
The motives of unions are hardly to result in unemployment for their members. They exist to ensure that the workforce is treated fairly and that their salary levels are in par with inflation, I.e. to hinder the exploitation of the workforce.
Without "union extortion", you'd probably make as much as a 14 year old football-seamstress in Cambodia. Unless you're self-employed, which would totally explain your narrowmindedness and hostility towards labor-benefits, taxes, infrastructure upkeep with "your money" and a healthcare reform which can be considered as some of the cornerstones of a western civilisation.
So what's your job worth in lowing-reality?
I need around tree fiddy.
O haiAmdi Peter wrote:
Nah, it's an OpelTheEternalPessimist wrote:
Looks a like like a Vauxhall to me
Spoiler (highlight to read):
inb4 Daewoo
My state was founded by Batman. Your opinion is invalid.
Straight out of the union handbook. Unions and their bullshit is the exact reason why car manufactures has moved jobs overseas, because they are sick of paying 75,000 dollar a year salary for someone to sweep a floor. Unions do not encourage working with a company, they encourge strangling a company for all it can get. Earning has very little meanig to a union. Job action, is the key to their success, and you know it.DonFck wrote:
Artificially inflated consumer prices by inflation.lowing wrote:
They both got paid more than what the job was actually worth was the point Spark. Artifically inflated salaries by uninon extortionSpark wrote:
And so you actually think they get paid the same?
The motives of unions are hardly to result in unemployment for their members. They exist to ensure that the workforce is treated fairly and that their salary levels are in par with inflation, I.e. to hinder the exploitation of the workforce.
Without "union extortion", you'd probably make as much as a 14 year old football-seamstress in Cambodia. Unless you're self-employed, which would totally explain your narrowmindedness and hostility towards labor-benefits, taxes, infrastructure upkeep with "your money" and a healthcare reform which can be considered as some of the cornerstones of a western civilisation.
So what's your job worth in lowing-reality?
Also if it did not cost 35,000 dollars to build a car ( partly due to labor costs) they wouldn't have to charge 40,000 for it, and prices could come down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pczGghB8MKg
how many guesses do you need to figure out why this plant is in Brazil?
My job is worth what the market will bare, and actually the market dictates a far lower salary than what I think my profession is worth. Mainly because we do are jobs so well and planes are not falling out of sky, we are out of sight and out of mind. Airlines hate mechanics becuae we cost a compny money, we do not gewnerate income for a company. We are a nessessary evil to them.
Last edited by lowing (2009-10-02 04:36:13)
Well, duh? It is, or at least it should be the main objective, hence it's in "the Union handbook", as you put it.lowing wrote:
Straight out of the union handbook.
One. Shitty pay, most of the workforce couldn't afford a Big Mac in the U.S. with their daily salary. Also, I doubt they'll live long enough to enjoy their substandard pensions.lowing wrote:
how many guesses do you need to figure out why this plant is in Brazil?
I put quality of life ahead of monetary profit.
I need around tree fiddy.
I do notice EARNING a quality of life was not a requirement.DonFck wrote:
Well, duh? It is, or at least it should be the main objective, hence it's in "the Union handbook", as you put it.lowing wrote:
Straight out of the union handbook.One. Shitty pay, most of the workforce couldn't afford a Big Mac in the U.S. with their daily salary. Also, I doubt they'll live long enough to enjoy their substandard pensions.lowing wrote:
how many guesses do you need to figure out why this plant is in Brazil?
I put quality of life ahead of monetary profit.
Funny how you ignore the bulk of my post, understandable when you can not deny it.
You don't need to make shit up to prove your point if you really do think you are right. 75k to sweep a floor?
Last edited by Spark (2009-10-02 03:46:09)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
I've never denied that you only look at things from your own limited standpoint and refuse to back your statements up with much reliable background data. That's the way you roll.lowing wrote:
I do notice EARNING a quality of life was not a requirement.DonFck wrote:
Well, duh? It is, or at least it should be the main objective, hence it's in "the Union handbook", as you put it.lowing wrote:
Straight out of the union handbook.One. Shitty pay, most of the workforce couldn't afford a Big Mac in the U.S. with their daily salary. Also, I doubt they'll live long enough to enjoy their substandard pensions.lowing wrote:
how many guesses do you need to figure out why this plant is in Brazil?
I put quality of life ahead of monetary profit.
Funny how you ignore the bulk of my post, understandable when you can not deny it.
You've decided that social democracy, equality of opportunity, and a reasonable standard of living for all are the great satan against which you must fight. You've proven that you cannot be swayed from these views regardless of what facts lie before you. So what's there to deny?
I need around tree fiddy.
http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.phpSpark wrote:
You don't need to make shit up to prove your point if you really do think you are right. 75k to sweep a floor?
not making it up. With very little OT, a person can make 75,000 doing mindless labor under UAW "protection"
Not sure where any of this bullshit came from but it is one hell of a redirect away from what is posted.DonFck wrote:
I've never denied that you only look at things from your own limited standpoint and refuse to back your statements up with much reliable background data. That's the way you roll.lowing wrote:
I do notice EARNING a quality of life was not a requirement.DonFck wrote:
Well, duh? It is, or at least it should be the main objective, hence it's in "the Union handbook", as you put it.
One. Shitty pay, most of the workforce couldn't afford a Big Mac in the U.S. with their daily salary. Also, I doubt they'll live long enough to enjoy their substandard pensions.
I put quality of life ahead of monetary profit.
Funny how you ignore the bulk of my post, understandable when you can not deny it.
You've decided that social democracy, equality of opportunity, and a reasonable standard of living for all are the great satan against which you must fight. You've proven that you cannot be swayed from these views regardless of what facts lie before you. So what's there to deny?
Anyway, my views are based on individuality, personal responsibility, marketability, achievement, dedication, devotion, ambition. I do not use words like fortunate, luck, unfortunate, destiny or any other mystical word you choose to use to define the world of reality. Also I think I do a pretty good job backing up my opinions.
Democracy is nothing more than mob rule. SOmetimes the mob is wrong. Or do you suggest because the majority of a town thought it was right to hang a black man 60 years ago that democracy was served?
I believe in equal opportunity, what you are advocating is equal results, and you would be wrong. A reasonable standard of living is earned not bestowed, again your union mentality is showing.
Last edited by lowing (2009-10-02 04:30:04)
Cool link, bro.lowing wrote:
http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.phpSpark wrote:
You don't need to make shit up to prove your point if you really do think you are right. 75k to sweep a floor?
not making it up. With very little OT, a person can make 75,000 doing mindless labor under UAW "protection"
I need around tree fiddy.
great pie chart, where did it come from?DonFck wrote:
Cool link, bro.lowing wrote:
http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.phpSpark wrote:
You don't need to make shit up to prove your point if you really do think you are right. 75k to sweep a floor?
not making it up. With very little OT, a person can make 75,000 doing mindless labor under UAW "protection"
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/6699/02chart.gif
Your link?lowing wrote:
great pie chart, where did it come from?DonFck wrote:
Cool link, bro.lowing wrote:
http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php
not making it up. With very little OT, a person can make 75,000 doing mindless labor under UAW "protection"
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/6699/02chart.gif
I need around tree fiddy.
Didn't scroll down enough to see it. Anyway what is the point you are trying to argue against what I posted? Especially the last post? You are tap dancing.DonFck wrote:
Your link?lowing wrote:
great pie chart, where did it come from?
The calculations show, accurately enough, that for every hour a unionized worker puts in, one of the Big Three really does spend about $73 on compensation. So the number isn’t made up. But it is the combination of three very different categories.
The first category is simply cash payments, which is what many people imagine when they hear the word “compensation.” It includes wages, overtime and vacation pay, and comes to about $40 an hour. (The numbers vary a bit by company and year. That’s why $73 is sometimes $70 or $77.)
The second category is fringe benefits, like health insurance and pensions. These benefits have real value, even if they don’t show up on a weekly paycheck. At the Big Three, the benefits amount to $15 an hour or so.
Add the two together, and you get the true hourly compensation of Detroit’s unionized work force: roughly $55 an hour. It’s a little more than twice as much as the typical American worker makes, benefits included. The more relevant comparison, though, is probably to Honda’s or Toyota’s (nonunionized) workers. They make in the neighborhood of $45 an hour, and most of the gap stems from their less generous benefits.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/busin … .html?_r=1
The first category is simply cash payments, which is what many people imagine when they hear the word “compensation.” It includes wages, overtime and vacation pay, and comes to about $40 an hour. (The numbers vary a bit by company and year. That’s why $73 is sometimes $70 or $77.)
The second category is fringe benefits, like health insurance and pensions. These benefits have real value, even if they don’t show up on a weekly paycheck. At the Big Three, the benefits amount to $15 an hour or so.
Add the two together, and you get the true hourly compensation of Detroit’s unionized work force: roughly $55 an hour. It’s a little more than twice as much as the typical American worker makes, benefits included. The more relevant comparison, though, is probably to Honda’s or Toyota’s (nonunionized) workers. They make in the neighborhood of $45 an hour, and most of the gap stems from their less generous benefits.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/busin … .html?_r=1
Last edited by lowing (2009-10-02 04:47:31)
How much does the avg employee at Saturn make? 0 dollars a year... because they couldn't compete...
The Unions priced them out of a job.
The Unions priced them out of a job.
Love is the answer
Oh well, can't expect the "entitled" to actually have an argument to justify their bestowed quality of life when faced with having to actually earn a quality of life.
If you have noticed all the bad news the last 3 years regarding the falling sales of the domestic auto industry, you might be interested in the following questions, possible answers are listed alphabetically.
The correct answers, along with source, are given below.
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?
a. Germany
b. Japan
c. Korea
d. United States
2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?
a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. GM
d. Nissan
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen
3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.
a. Acura, BMW, Cadillac (all luxury makes)
b. Honda, Mercury, Nissan (all non-luxury makes)
c. Acura (lux), Chevrolet (non-lux), BMW (lux), Mazda (non-lux)
4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?
a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima (Nissan)
c. Camry (Toyota)
d. Malibu (Chevrolet)
5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?
a. Avalon (Toyota)
b. Grand Prix (Pontiac)
c. Sable (Mercury)
6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?
a. Dakota (Dodge)
b. Ranger (Ford)
c. Tacoma (Toyota)
7. Which car is the most economical overall?
a. Aveo (Chevrolet)
b. Fit (Honda)
c. Prius (Toyota)
8. Which car did the LA Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?
a. A6 (Audi)
b. CTS (Cadillac)
c. RL (Acura)
9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?
a. Chevrolet
b. Honda
c. Toyota
10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?
a. Aura (Saturn)
b. Camry (Toyota)
c. Fit (Honda)
11. Which car won the same award for 2008?
a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima coupe (Nissan)
c. Malibu (Chevrolet)
12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. General Motors
d. Hyundai
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen
ANSWERS:
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?
Answer: United States.
Per J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study, Mercury and Cadillac are in the top 3, along with Lexus. And in 2007, Buick was tied with Lexus for the top spot.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/r … ID=2008115
2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?
Answer: Volkswagen.
According to Business Week, Volkswagen had the most recalls at this time a year ago. The second worst was Toyota.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/conte … 55098..htm
3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.
a. Answer : Cadillac (better than both Acura and BMW)
b. Answer: Mercury (better than both Honda and Nissan)
c. Answer: Chevrolet (better than Acura, BMW, and Mazda)
This is according to J.D. Power’s Initial Quality Survey.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/r … ID=2008063
4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?
Answer: The Chevrolet Malibu has better initial quality than any competitor, including the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima. The Ford Fusion also beat all 3 Japanese competitors.
This too is from the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey, which also reveals that above average are American brands Mercury, Ford, Cadillac, Chevrolet , Pontiac, Lincoln, and Buick. Below average are import brands Acura, Kia, Nissan, BMW, Mazda, VW, Subaru, and Scion (and several others).
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2 … Large-Cars
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/r … ID=2008063
5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?
Answer: Again per J.D. Power, the highest quality large car is the Pontiac Grand Prix, beating the Toyota Avalon. Two other Detroit cars that beat the Avalon are the Mercury Sable and Mercury Grand Marquis.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2 … Large-Cars
6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?
Answer: The Dodge Dakota has the best quality for midsize pickups, proving that Chrysler too can beat the imports. Both the Dakota and the Ford Ranger beat the Toyota Tacoma.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2 … s-and-Vans
7. Which car is the most economical overall?
Answer: Per Edmunds.com, the premier automotive analysis site, the most economical car in America, taking into account not only mileage but all costs, is the Chevrolet Aveo. The Honda Fit is #3 and the Toyota Prius is a distant #34.
http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/press … ticle.html
8. Which car did the Los Angeles Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?
Answer: “Cadillac makes a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti, and that car is the 2008 CTS. No other car in the mass market dares so much as this expressive and audacious bit of automotive avant-gardism.” Dan Neil, LA Times.
http://www.latimes.com/classified/autom … otogallery
9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?
Answer: The Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid is the winner of this award. How could a full-size SUV defeat the media darling Toyota Prius? Read the link below and you will discover, “What’s equally eye-opening is that the Tahoe’s 21 mpg city fuel efficiency rating is the same as that of the city EPA rating for the four-cylinder Toyota Camry sedan. ”
Did you catch that? A huge, full-size SUV from Chevrolet that gets the same city mileage as a 4-cylinder Toyota Camry!! Chevy obtained this remarkable achievement through the use of its 2-mode hybrid system, a technology that Toyota does not have.
http://www.greencar.com/features/2008greencar/
10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?
Answer: Not only was the Saturn Aura picked by the automotive press corps as better than the Honda Fit and the Toyota Camry, “When a panel of 47 journalists named the Saturn Aura the North American Car of the Year over the Toyota Camry, the vote wasn't even close, 205-89.” Chicago Tribune, 1/15/07
http://www.northamericancaroftheyear.org/news.html
11. Which car won the same award for 2008?
Answer: GM again crushed the Japanese competition in 2008 when the Malibu received 190 votes to the Honda Accord’s 95. The Accord actually came in 3rd since GM’s other finalist, the Cadillac CTS, received 165 votes.
http://www.northamericancaroftheyear.org/news.html
12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
Answer: Toyota’s much publicized quality problems resulted in Consumer Reports actually removing from their recommended vehicles list the Lexus GS luxury car, Camry V6 sedan, and Tundra pickup. This demotion occurred in October 2007.
This Q&A list was put together by an employee of an American car company who just might lose his job because of public perceptions that do not match reality. If you are one of the many Americans who gave up on Detroit’s cars because of a bad experience many years ago, it’s time to rethink your position. Rethink Detroit.
Detroit automakers: 79 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
Foreign automakers: 33 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
For the best quote from lowing about the union autoworker:
"Sounds like a bunch of mother fuckers that better get out and get marketable then doesn't it?."
@DonFck:
Have had this one with lowing before:
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=115817&p=5
Lowing has his opinions....they are his and he is welcome to them. However........
Just using his posted links in this thread he has shown his narrow view.
"Didn't scroll down enough to see it"
Forget that the workers at Toyota and Honda make close to the same per hour as the UAW. Just blame them for the collapse.
Forget that Toyota and Honda don't have 419,621 retired members and 120,723 surviving spouses drawing a pension.
Oh, and forget the PRIVATE health care plan too.
A closed mind is like a closed room, after a while, it gets stuffy.
The correct answers, along with source, are given below.
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?
a. Germany
b. Japan
c. Korea
d. United States
2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?
a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. GM
d. Nissan
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen
3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.
a. Acura, BMW, Cadillac (all luxury makes)
b. Honda, Mercury, Nissan (all non-luxury makes)
c. Acura (lux), Chevrolet (non-lux), BMW (lux), Mazda (non-lux)
4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?
a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima (Nissan)
c. Camry (Toyota)
d. Malibu (Chevrolet)
5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?
a. Avalon (Toyota)
b. Grand Prix (Pontiac)
c. Sable (Mercury)
6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?
a. Dakota (Dodge)
b. Ranger (Ford)
c. Tacoma (Toyota)
7. Which car is the most economical overall?
a. Aveo (Chevrolet)
b. Fit (Honda)
c. Prius (Toyota)
8. Which car did the LA Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?
a. A6 (Audi)
b. CTS (Cadillac)
c. RL (Acura)
9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?
a. Chevrolet
b. Honda
c. Toyota
10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?
a. Aura (Saturn)
b. Camry (Toyota)
c. Fit (Honda)
11. Which car won the same award for 2008?
a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima coupe (Nissan)
c. Malibu (Chevrolet)
12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. General Motors
d. Hyundai
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen
ANSWERS:
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?
Answer: United States.
Per J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study, Mercury and Cadillac are in the top 3, along with Lexus. And in 2007, Buick was tied with Lexus for the top spot.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/r … ID=2008115
2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?
Answer: Volkswagen.
According to Business Week, Volkswagen had the most recalls at this time a year ago. The second worst was Toyota.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/conte … 55098..htm
3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.
a. Answer : Cadillac (better than both Acura and BMW)
b. Answer: Mercury (better than both Honda and Nissan)
c. Answer: Chevrolet (better than Acura, BMW, and Mazda)
This is according to J.D. Power’s Initial Quality Survey.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/r … ID=2008063
4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?
Answer: The Chevrolet Malibu has better initial quality than any competitor, including the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima. The Ford Fusion also beat all 3 Japanese competitors.
This too is from the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey, which also reveals that above average are American brands Mercury, Ford, Cadillac, Chevrolet , Pontiac, Lincoln, and Buick. Below average are import brands Acura, Kia, Nissan, BMW, Mazda, VW, Subaru, and Scion (and several others).
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2 … Large-Cars
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/r … ID=2008063
5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?
Answer: Again per J.D. Power, the highest quality large car is the Pontiac Grand Prix, beating the Toyota Avalon. Two other Detroit cars that beat the Avalon are the Mercury Sable and Mercury Grand Marquis.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2 … Large-Cars
6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?
Answer: The Dodge Dakota has the best quality for midsize pickups, proving that Chrysler too can beat the imports. Both the Dakota and the Ford Ranger beat the Toyota Tacoma.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2 … s-and-Vans
7. Which car is the most economical overall?
Answer: Per Edmunds.com, the premier automotive analysis site, the most economical car in America, taking into account not only mileage but all costs, is the Chevrolet Aveo. The Honda Fit is #3 and the Toyota Prius is a distant #34.
http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/press … ticle.html
8. Which car did the Los Angeles Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?
Answer: “Cadillac makes a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti, and that car is the 2008 CTS. No other car in the mass market dares so much as this expressive and audacious bit of automotive avant-gardism.” Dan Neil, LA Times.
http://www.latimes.com/classified/autom … otogallery
9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?
Answer: The Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid is the winner of this award. How could a full-size SUV defeat the media darling Toyota Prius? Read the link below and you will discover, “What’s equally eye-opening is that the Tahoe’s 21 mpg city fuel efficiency rating is the same as that of the city EPA rating for the four-cylinder Toyota Camry sedan. ”
Did you catch that? A huge, full-size SUV from Chevrolet that gets the same city mileage as a 4-cylinder Toyota Camry!! Chevy obtained this remarkable achievement through the use of its 2-mode hybrid system, a technology that Toyota does not have.
http://www.greencar.com/features/2008greencar/
10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?
Answer: Not only was the Saturn Aura picked by the automotive press corps as better than the Honda Fit and the Toyota Camry, “When a panel of 47 journalists named the Saturn Aura the North American Car of the Year over the Toyota Camry, the vote wasn't even close, 205-89.” Chicago Tribune, 1/15/07
http://www.northamericancaroftheyear.org/news.html
11. Which car won the same award for 2008?
Answer: GM again crushed the Japanese competition in 2008 when the Malibu received 190 votes to the Honda Accord’s 95. The Accord actually came in 3rd since GM’s other finalist, the Cadillac CTS, received 165 votes.
http://www.northamericancaroftheyear.org/news.html
12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
Answer: Toyota’s much publicized quality problems resulted in Consumer Reports actually removing from their recommended vehicles list the Lexus GS luxury car, Camry V6 sedan, and Tundra pickup. This demotion occurred in October 2007.
This Q&A list was put together by an employee of an American car company who just might lose his job because of public perceptions that do not match reality. If you are one of the many Americans who gave up on Detroit’s cars because of a bad experience many years ago, it’s time to rethink your position. Rethink Detroit.
Detroit automakers: 79 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
Foreign automakers: 33 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
For the best quote from lowing about the union autoworker:
"Sounds like a bunch of mother fuckers that better get out and get marketable then doesn't it?."
@DonFck:
Have had this one with lowing before:
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=115817&p=5
Lowing has his opinions....they are his and he is welcome to them. However........
Just using his posted links in this thread he has shown his narrow view.
"Didn't scroll down enough to see it"
Forget that the workers at Toyota and Honda make close to the same per hour as the UAW. Just blame them for the collapse.
Forget that Toyota and Honda don't have 419,621 retired members and 120,723 surviving spouses drawing a pension.
Oh, and forget the PRIVATE health care plan too.
A closed mind is like a closed room, after a while, it gets stuffy.
How much money has the UAW dumped into the pockets of the people that wrote that test? ^^^^^
Wow. Some of those questions are ridiculously scewed in favor of American cars.
Wow. Some of those questions are ridiculously scewed in favor of American cars.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
The UAW dump money at JD Powers??? Please think about that one.... don't think thats happening.JohnG@lt wrote:
How much money has the UAW dumped into the pockets of the people that wrote that test? ^^^^^
Wow. Some of those questions are ridiculously scewed in favor of American cars.
Business Week?? Special edition would be out on that story.
Edmunds??? don't know enough about them to say.
L.A. Times ??? Go ahead, try to bribe a news paper.
Greencar??? same as Edmunds
North American Car of the Year??? 51 Jurors. A pricey bribe there.
I'll be fair here. I'm in this business. I will not say if I think it's for or against American cars.
Last edited by Karbin (2009-10-02 18:31:26)
I'm just saying that the way many of the questions were worded and with the options given it was entirely favorable to American cars vs their competition. You have to wonder how many questions didn't fit the criteria they were seeking for the article and were thrown out that would've shown American cars in a more negative light. Just sayin'.Karbin wrote:
The UAW dump money at JD Powers??? Please think about that one.... don't think thats happening.JohnG@lt wrote:
How much money has the UAW dumped into the pockets of the people that wrote that test? ^^^^^
Wow. Some of those questions are ridiculously scewed in favor of American cars.
Business Week?? Special edition would be out on that story.
Edmunds??? don't know enough about them to say.
L.A. Times ??? Go ahead, try to bribe a news paper.
Greencar??? same as Edmunds
North American Car of the Year??? 51 Jurors. A pricey bribe there.
I'll be fair here. I'm in this business. I will not say if I think it's for or against American cars.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
lol, initial quality. ask that malibu owner in a year or two how that initial quality is going.
After all of this you fail to tell the truth, the UAW now makes close to those empoyees of Honda and Toyota, after decades of far outlandish compensation packages. It is only recently that they have been knocked down to similar compensation, and yet are still above them.Karbin wrote:
If you have noticed all the bad news the last 3 years regarding the falling sales of the domestic auto industry, you might be interested in the following questions, possible answers are listed alphabetically.
The correct answers, along with source, are given below.
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?
a. Germany
b. Japan
c. Korea
d. United States
2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?
a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. GM
d. Nissan
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen
3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.
a. Acura, BMW, Cadillac (all luxury makes)
b. Honda, Mercury, Nissan (all non-luxury makes)
c. Acura (lux), Chevrolet (non-lux), BMW (lux), Mazda (non-lux)
4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?
a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima (Nissan)
c. Camry (Toyota)
d. Malibu (Chevrolet)
5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?
a. Avalon (Toyota)
b. Grand Prix (Pontiac)
c. Sable (Mercury)
6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?
a. Dakota (Dodge)
b. Ranger (Ford)
c. Tacoma (Toyota)
7. Which car is the most economical overall?
a. Aveo (Chevrolet)
b. Fit (Honda)
c. Prius (Toyota)
8. Which car did the LA Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?
a. A6 (Audi)
b. CTS (Cadillac)
c. RL (Acura)
9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?
a. Chevrolet
b. Honda
c. Toyota
10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?
a. Aura (Saturn)
b. Camry (Toyota)
c. Fit (Honda)
11. Which car won the same award for 2008?
a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima coupe (Nissan)
c. Malibu (Chevrolet)
12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. General Motors
d. Hyundai
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen
ANSWERS:
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?
Answer: United States.
Per J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study, Mercury and Cadillac are in the top 3, along with Lexus. And in 2007, Buick was tied with Lexus for the top spot.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/r … ID=2008115
2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?
Answer: Volkswagen.
According to Business Week, Volkswagen had the most recalls at this time a year ago. The second worst was Toyota.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/conte … 55098..htm
3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.
a. Answer : Cadillac (better than both Acura and BMW)
b. Answer: Mercury (better than both Honda and Nissan)
c. Answer: Chevrolet (better than Acura, BMW, and Mazda)
This is according to J.D. Power’s Initial Quality Survey.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/r … ID=2008063
4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?
Answer: The Chevrolet Malibu has better initial quality than any competitor, including the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima. The Ford Fusion also beat all 3 Japanese competitors.
This too is from the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey, which also reveals that above average are American brands Mercury, Ford, Cadillac, Chevrolet , Pontiac, Lincoln, and Buick. Below average are import brands Acura, Kia, Nissan, BMW, Mazda, VW, Subaru, and Scion (and several others).
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2 … Large-Cars
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/r … ID=2008063
5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?
Answer: Again per J.D. Power, the highest quality large car is the Pontiac Grand Prix, beating the Toyota Avalon. Two other Detroit cars that beat the Avalon are the Mercury Sable and Mercury Grand Marquis.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2 … Large-Cars
6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?
Answer: The Dodge Dakota has the best quality for midsize pickups, proving that Chrysler too can beat the imports. Both the Dakota and the Ford Ranger beat the Toyota Tacoma.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2 … s-and-Vans
7. Which car is the most economical overall?
Answer: Per Edmunds.com, the premier automotive analysis site, the most economical car in America, taking into account not only mileage but all costs, is the Chevrolet Aveo. The Honda Fit is #3 and the Toyota Prius is a distant #34.
http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/press … ticle.html
8. Which car did the Los Angeles Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?
Answer: “Cadillac makes a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti, and that car is the 2008 CTS. No other car in the mass market dares so much as this expressive and audacious bit of automotive avant-gardism.” Dan Neil, LA Times.
http://www.latimes.com/classified/autom … otogallery
9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?
Answer: The Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid is the winner of this award. How could a full-size SUV defeat the media darling Toyota Prius? Read the link below and you will discover, “What’s equally eye-opening is that the Tahoe’s 21 mpg city fuel efficiency rating is the same as that of the city EPA rating for the four-cylinder Toyota Camry sedan. ”
Did you catch that? A huge, full-size SUV from Chevrolet that gets the same city mileage as a 4-cylinder Toyota Camry!! Chevy obtained this remarkable achievement through the use of its 2-mode hybrid system, a technology that Toyota does not have.
http://www.greencar.com/features/2008greencar/
10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?
Answer: Not only was the Saturn Aura picked by the automotive press corps as better than the Honda Fit and the Toyota Camry, “When a panel of 47 journalists named the Saturn Aura the North American Car of the Year over the Toyota Camry, the vote wasn't even close, 205-89.” Chicago Tribune, 1/15/07
http://www.northamericancaroftheyear.org/news.html
11. Which car won the same award for 2008?
Answer: GM again crushed the Japanese competition in 2008 when the Malibu received 190 votes to the Honda Accord’s 95. The Accord actually came in 3rd since GM’s other finalist, the Cadillac CTS, received 165 votes.
http://www.northamericancaroftheyear.org/news.html
12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
Answer: Toyota’s much publicized quality problems resulted in Consumer Reports actually removing from their recommended vehicles list the Lexus GS luxury car, Camry V6 sedan, and Tundra pickup. This demotion occurred in October 2007.
This Q&A list was put together by an employee of an American car company who just might lose his job because of public perceptions that do not match reality. If you are one of the many Americans who gave up on Detroit’s cars because of a bad experience many years ago, it’s time to rethink your position. Rethink Detroit.
Detroit automakers: 79 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
Foreign automakers: 33 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
For the best quote from lowing about the union autoworker:
"Sounds like a bunch of mother fuckers that better get out and get marketable then doesn't it?."
@DonFck:
Have had this one with lowing before:
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=115817&p=5
Lowing has his opinions....they are his and he is welcome to them. However........
Just using his posted links in this thread he has shown his narrow view.
"Didn't scroll down enough to see it"
Forget that the workers at Toyota and Honda make close to the same per hour as the UAW. Just blame them for the collapse.
Forget that Toyota and Honda don't have 419,621 retired members and 120,723 surviving spouses drawing a pension.
Oh, and forget the PRIVATE health care plan too.
A closed mind is like a closed room, after a while, it gets stuffy.
You can beat your chest about unions all you want, the fact is, unions have killed competition in this country and now companies are no longer allowing unions to hold them hostage. They did it to the steel industry and they did it to the car companies. Like it or not. The other factor that rings true for their demise is thy build junk, and they have done so for decades, and everyone knows it, so they went for quality over patriotism.
Last edited by lowing (2009-10-03 07:33:26)
depends. my buddy who works at a ford plant knows one sweeper driver who has been there for many many years and makes about $43 an hour to drive that little sweeping machine.Spark wrote:
And so you actually think they get paid the same?lowing wrote:
Well since the floor sweeper has about as much talent as the guy that installs the floor mats, or the wiper blades at the same pay scale, I think my point is made.Spark wrote:
Yes because they only employ floor sweepers
lol at fail American brands
