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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,784|5488|eXtreme to the maX
Well it would be great if they could just not nerf the battery with every software update, I think thats mean.
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uziq
Member
+471|2834
it's not with every software update, and way to change the subject entirely.

extremely old and deprecated models, 5+ year old models, have at some points in iOS history noted slowdowns. that's because they introduced a new battery-saving measure for extremely old devices, essentially underclocking them as their battery capacity dwindles. shady? possibly, yes. but who cares, this only applies to long-dead phones anyway.

i've had 3 macbooks in my lifetime and everyone has lasted 6+ years. tell me which windows manufacturer gives you that longevity? same with iphones. i've only ever upgraded mine normally after smashing the screen or wearing out the battery so it was a write-off by that point in its life.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,987|6154|USA

Three out of four average, business Windows laptops purchased in the late 90s and early aughts still function (though are no longer in business use). One just needs a hard drive replacement, I think. Take care of your stuff and it stands to reason that it has a better shot at longevity.
uziq
Member
+471|2834
yeah, there's no way you're doing day-to-day work on a 1990s windows laptop anymore.

i'm not talking about them barely still working and booting up. i'm talking about them being good to go as your main machine 5+ years later.

almost every windows machine i've had has gone to the computer seniors' home where driver errors, BSODs, software incompatibilities, general slowdowns, etc, have gummed up their joints beyond any use. the last desktop PC i built suffered a power supply issue after 1 year ffs. i know it's the fault of the individual component/manufacturer rather than the platform (obviously), but ffs, the level of hassle and troubleshooting with windows machines/bespoke custom 1337 gam3r gear in general is a continual blight.

apple's gear just lasts longer and is much more stable and reliable, imo. i have never had to reformat a machine or take it into a store because something stopped working. never had to deal with days wasted with hairpulling troubleshooting because something randomly fucked up.

Last edited by uziq (2022-04-13 04:55:05)

DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+788|6067|United States of America
Every Windows machine of mine is still operational. The first from 2007 stopped working after a flood at college, but then my dad magically got it to boot again and uses it for radio things. The 2011 replacement is my parents desktop, and then this one I built in 2018 ought to last me a while still. Make of that what you will.

This discussion reminds me that our work laptops are laughably bad, though. They spend like $1500 on Steelcase chairs and desks with 34" curved monitors, buy iPhones for way more of us than actually need them, and then skimp on like $450 laptops that will last <4 hours on battery even with finagling the settings and heat up like a motherfucker.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+576|3101
My job gave us MacBooks Airs. The MacBook won me over and if I ever buy a laptop it will be an Apple one. The "Apple products are overpriced for what you get!" that was common around here in like 2008 really showed the age of the members. Apple products don't seem exceptionally expensive once you start making grown up money.

The reliability improvements of tech made over the last few decades doesn't get the attention it deserves. I see kids smacking and dropping their cellphones and Chromebooks all over the place and the things keep on ticking like nothing happened. Meanwhile I still wince if I drop my phone.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Dauntless
Admin
+2,240|6124|London

SuperJail Warden wrote:

My job gave us MacBooks Airs. The MacBook won me over and if I ever buy a laptop it will be an Apple one. The "Apple products are overpriced for what you get!" that was common around here in like 2008 really showed the age of the members. Apple products don't seem exceptionally expensive once you start making grown up money.

The reliability improvements of tech made over the last few decades doesn't get the attention it deserves. I see kids smacking and dropping their cellphones and Chromebooks all over the place and the things keep on ticking like nothing happened. Meanwhile I still wince if I drop my phone.
Yeah agree, it's a shame they stopped using Intel chips though.
I've got the last Intel MacBook Pro and boot into Windows for most of my work, I know you can use Parallels etc on the Apple chips but it's annoying having to run Windows as a VM
https://imgur.com/kXTNQ8D.png
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,987|6154|USA

uziq wrote:

yeah, there's no way you're doing day-to-day work on a 1990s windows laptop anymore.

i'm not talking about them barely still working and booting up. i'm talking about them being good to go as your main machine 5+ years later.

almost every windows machine i've had has gone to the computer seniors' home where driver errors, BSODs, software incompatibilities, general slowdowns, etc, have gummed up their joints beyond any use. the last desktop PC i built suffered a power supply issue after 1 year ffs. i know it's the fault of the individual component/manufacturer rather than the platform (obviously), but ffs, the level of hassle and troubleshooting with windows machines/bespoke custom 1337 gam3r gear in general is a continual blight.

apple's gear just lasts longer and is much more stable and reliable, imo. i have never had to reformat a machine or take it into a store because something stopped working. never had to deal with days wasted with hairpulling troubleshooting because something randomly fucked up.
Yes, I did say they aren't used for work anymore. Also yes to most of that, my point was that I have had experience with Windows PCs that have lasted way longer than half a decade, and well beyond expected lifespan, driver/Windows support or whatever. A response to what mfg will give you an operating time like that, well, a lot apparently, not to take away from Apple or anything. I'm still in the mood for a break from Windows.

Blight is a good word for Windows Update and its approximation for stuff when individual component mfgs discontinue driver updates. My current desktop PC though, for ex, I don't think maybe less than a week of total downtime for over a decade of heavy use is particularly bad even after having vented about wasted Dec days awhile back.
uziq
Member
+471|2834

Dauntless wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

My job gave us MacBooks Airs. The MacBook won me over and if I ever buy a laptop it will be an Apple one. The "Apple products are overpriced for what you get!" that was common around here in like 2008 really showed the age of the members. Apple products don't seem exceptionally expensive once you start making grown up money.

The reliability improvements of tech made over the last few decades doesn't get the attention it deserves. I see kids smacking and dropping their cellphones and Chromebooks all over the place and the things keep on ticking like nothing happened. Meanwhile I still wince if I drop my phone.
Yeah agree, it's a shame they stopped using Intel chips though.
I've got the last Intel MacBook Pro and boot into Windows for most of my work, I know you can use Parallels etc on the Apple chips but it's annoying having to run Windows as a VM
a few of my friends have got the latest 16-inch MBP now, with the M1 (M2?) chip. support has come a long ways in the last year or so for the apple cores. without question the jump away from intel-based designs to their own chip has been the biggest disruption/change in their machines for a decade+.

normally my litmus test is to keep an eye on the music community. a lot of specialist music production software, small-scale cottage-industry plug-ins/suites, etc, take a very long time to smoothly adopt new technologies. technical bugs, artefacts, issues, etc, are chronic. when i see the music community finally start to pivot to a new OS or machine, i know it's probably good for other design/creative/work-based applications, too. ymmv, though, especially if you're doing technical/networking stuff and crossover very often with linux/windows.

by all accounts the new macbook tech is ridiculously quick, even at VM or emulation.

Blight is a good word for Windows Update and its approximation for stuff when individual component mfgs discontinue driver updates.
blight or bloat, yes. my comments were in response to dilbert's 'a shame they slowdown and cripple their stuff with every software update' remark, anyway. there's no way apple are worse culprits for this than windows or any of the laptop manufacturers like HP/Dell/Alienware/etc. every single apple device i have owned has been a steady daily-driver for 6+ years and has never caused me any fuss or worry about software updates or slowdowns. the whole OS and environment is remarkably stable.

Last edited by uziq (2022-04-13 17:31:53)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,784|5488|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

yeah, there's no way you're doing day-to-day work on a 1990s windows laptop anymore.

i'm not talking about them barely still working and booting up. i'm talking about them being good to go as your main machine 5+ years later.
Can you day to day work on a 1990s Mac laptop?

Windows 'updates' are indeed a problem, best thing is to turn them off. My XP box seems to have run fine without them for years.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,987|6154|USA

The point I assume being that it still runs, although like the previously mentioned 90s/early-00s laptops, of limited practical use. I cannot recommend using XP at all right now unless utterly unplugged from the internet. Articles were buzzing with whether or not Microsoft would extend support way back in the aughts for crying out loud.

Updates have caused the odd problem for me every few years or so, but I'm keeping them on. Security patches and fixing Very Big Errors are all usually less trouble than they're worth.
uziq
Member
+471|2834

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

yeah, there's no way you're doing day-to-day work on a 1990s windows laptop anymore.

i'm not talking about them barely still working and booting up. i'm talking about them being good to go as your main machine 5+ years later.
Can you day to day work on a 1990s Mac laptop?

Windows 'updates' are indeed a problem, best thing is to turn them off. My XP box seems to have run fine without them for years.
i never said 1990s, that was newbie. my post literally said "they are good to go as your main machine 5+ years later". learn to read, dearest.

i could start up my retina macbook from 2012 and still use it for web/mail/office apps, etc. everything still works fine. my point was that there is no artificial slowdown or gumming up of the OS as you go through new iterations. the more recent mac OS's have actually improved, not worsened, my old machine and given it a new lease of life. that's not at all the norm in the tech industry or consumer electronics.

Last edited by uziq (2022-04-13 21:27:18)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,784|5488|eXtreme to the maX
XP Boots faster than anything else I own
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,987|6154|USA

XP was a mint operating system from a bygone era. Very obsolete security risk these days. I fought get office systems turned over to Windows 7 back in the day, itself now lapsing into obsolescence. Articles imploring users to stop using Windows XP, like a decade ago. If you must have it for nostalgia or whatever, keep it off your network and disconnected from the internet.

Whenever I'm asked what MS's best OS was, XP is a very easy answer. Has anything before or since from them gotten the same kind of love from PC users?
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+576|3101
The user interface upgrade between Win 9X/ME and XP had a big effect on how people perceived it too. I think Vista looked great too. I liked the Vista widgets too.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,987|6154|USA

It took people awhile to warm up to Windows XP, and it was succeeding Windows ME, although there were still adherents to 98SE. I was hooked the moment I installed it.

You could write a book on why Vista was hated across a broad spectrum of users. Didn't MS more or less apologize for it later?
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+576|3101
IIRC the major issue with vista was UAC pop-ups. It was otherwise good.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,987|6154|USA

There's like 20 page downs of summary on wikipedia. You can find entire, lengthy threads on reddit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism … dows_Vista
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+659|5673|Washington St.
I still don't understand the love of XP but not for 7. I personally think Win7 was the pinnacle of Windows OS's, but Win10 and XP were perfectly good as well.

I feel like it comes down to what you remember was good, not what was actually good. It's like talking about the golden era of the Simpsons or SNL.

indeed Vista can eat my entire ass though

Last edited by pirana6 (2022-04-14 13:48:27)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,987|6154|USA

XP users have had more years to tint their rose glasses. Some of the OS's greatest defenders I've talked to about it have themselves not used it since support was discontinued.

I think after the black eye MS got from Vista, a warm glow was as much as could be hoped for 7. I went straight to that from XP, and then to 10 from there. This PC will have seen its third OS in Windows 11 if it were at all compatible. Very reminiscent of Vista. "lol ur hardware is old" MS shills from tech forums.

e: It's sad to me that the most that can be hoped for from a company with resources like Microsoft is "adequate." Have you ever even seen a commercial for Windows 11?

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2022-04-14 13:53:58)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+576|3101

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

There's like 20 page downs of summary on wikipedia. You can find entire, lengthy threads on reddit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism … dows_Vista
You can find 20 pages of criticism for every windows operating system.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+659|5673|Washington St.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

XP users have had more years to tint their rose glasses. Some of the OS's greatest defenders I've talked to about it have themselves not used it since support was discontinued.

I think after the black eye MS got from Vista, a warm glow was as much as could be hoped for 7. I went straight to that from XP, and then to 10 from there. This PC will have seen its third OS in Windows 11 if it were at all compatible. Very reminiscent of Vista. "lol ur hardware is old" MS shills from tech forums.

e: It's sad to me that the most that can be hoped for from a company with resources like Microsoft is "adequate." Have you ever even seen a commercial for Windows 11?
As a linux fanboy myself, if MS decides to be a punk about any hardware Ubuntu goes on. If it's a windows machine I'm likely doing two things: Web browsing and games. If the hardware is too old to game anyway then all I need is the web and on goes Linux.
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+659|5673|Washington St.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

e: It's sad to me that the most that can be hoped for from a company with resources like Microsoft is "adequate." Have you ever even seen a commercial for Windows 11?
No but in fairness I honestly can't tell you the last commercial I've seen for OS-software, be it windows or macOS. I would gawk in awe at a Monterey commercial telling me to upgrade my Big Sur laptop.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,987|6154|USA

SuperJail Warden wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

There's like 20 page downs of summary on wikipedia. You can find entire, lengthy threads on reddit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism … dows_Vista
You can find 20 pages of criticism for every windows operating system.
8 pagedowns for XP's Wiki article. My point is that there are plenty of valid complaints about Vista, especially from the standpoint of an XP upgrade. Suddenly your stuff doesn't work, mired in driver issues, runs more slowly as the very basics of it. The experience of a new desktop/laptop built with Vista in mind, running programs designed especially for it, was probably far less painful until the USB stick you bought from Office Depot or something wouldn't work.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,784|5488|eXtreme to the maX
Win7 Is my favourite, very sorry to lose that for the slow boot update hog which is Win10

That said the only driver it regularly kills is for my 3D Mouse, still shouldn't do it, its not as if they're exotic
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