Is there any reason not to give up hope for America?

2009-08-19 15:50:58

#1

Fancy_Pollux: Connoisseur of Fine Wine; +1,306|6938

Over the past year in particular, I've been amazed at the ignorance and stupidity displayed by an alarmingly high percentage of my fellow citizens.

First, it was the Palin bandwagon. The mere fact that someone like Palin could even become a viable candidate, a leader among the Republican party, and a serious contender for the 2012 election is simply frightening. Whether you label yourself a Conservative or Liberal, I don't think I need to elaborate any further.

Second, nearly half of our population believes that the earth is only 6000 years old. Science and intellectualism are frowned upon. Again, I do not need to elaborate any further.

Third, many Americans have somehow concluded that socialized healthcare = Nazism!? There are plenty of legitimate arguments against socialized healthcare...but Nazism!? Seriously!? One would classify that as ignorance, and that reading any history book or going to elementary school (where they will also learn that anything we've learned from scientists that is not in the Bible is a lie) would fix that, but these people are dead set on the idea that Obama = Nazi and will never change their minds for any reason whatsoever. Take this, for example:

EDIT: This too if you haven't already seen it

What gave people this idea? Do they believe it just because Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, or Bill O'Reilly might have said so? Are people not aware of the faults and contradictions these entertainers make in their arguments every time they speak? or do people choose to ignore it? This is the level of brainwashing I'd expect in a cult...or have we become one?

I can only conclude that Americans have lost the ability to reason. I'm all for a debate, but I don't see any way out of this one. Please give me a reason to believe that we are anything but boned.

Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2009-08-19 16:52:30)

2009-08-19 15:57:06

#2

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|6941

I really, really wanted to punch that woman in the face. In fact, I would pay good money to do so.

2009-08-19 16:04:40

#3

mtb0minime: minimember; +2,418|6946

I'm sure there are still plenty of intelligent people out there, it's just that they don't fight back because the ignoramuses are so loud and vocal and there's just no point in stooping to their level and trying to fight back against people who won't budge anyway.

The people that should be in charge of this country or are capable of making decisions regarding this country's future are all apathetic.

2009-08-19 16:04:40

#4

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6697|North Carolina

Look, I don't want to sound like a conspiracy nut, but I kind of get the feeling that this woman was a plant.

The thing is... some people really are stupid enough to believe that Obama is equivalent to Hitler. Some people do equate socialized medicine with Nazism. But this woman doesn't look like that type, and her actions... I don't know. There's something fishy about her, and it's not just the idiocy of her words. She looks like the young, neo-hippy type. Most of the Obama = Hitler types are older and look like rednecks. I know that's a generalization, but seriously, she just looks more like what you would expect from the moderate middle or the Left.

I could be wrong, of course.

Either way, even if it turns out that she is a plant, I'm glad she's drawing attention to the absurdity of the comparison.

2009-08-19 16:09:08

#5

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6789

Fancy_Pollux wrote:
I'm all for a debate, but I don't see any way out of this one. Please give me a reason to believe that we are anything but boned.

hi Fancy. i wish i could debate you on this subject. Sadly, i cannot. i cannot tell you why you should put your faith in today's politics, religion (pun intended), pop-culture, or business/finance. you left no room for debate, GG.

2009-08-19 16:15:25

#6

Ty: Mass Media Casualty; +2,398|7066|Noizyland

Unfortunately that's not a phenomenon unique to America - Palin is but that's... that's really unexplainable.

I blame it on the difference between factual statements and provoking statements and people's inability to know the difference. If a political commentator starts harping on about how socialised healthcare equals Nazism people don't take it for the exaduration it is, they take it as fact. Part of the problem is that most political commentators don't actually comment on politics any more they just let forth a slew of provoking exadurations that play to the existing views of their demographic. God forbid a commentator to actually make deep and thoughtful analysis on politics - we'll loose all our viewers/listeners! What this ends up doing is solidifying people's irrational beliefs to the point where no amount of logic will penetrate the world they create around themselves.

Well done to the Congressman for realising that there is no point trying to engage people like this in rational discussion.

[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon

2009-08-19 16:16:12

#7

Narupug: Fodder Mostly; +150|5888|Vacationland

Sick em Barney. too bad MA is loosing seats after the 2010 census, so one of their 10 Democratic congressmen will have to relinquish his seat.

2009-08-19 16:17:46

#8

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6697|North Carolina

Fancy_Pollux wrote:
What gave people this idea? Do they believe it just because Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, or Bill O'Reilly might have said so? Are people not aware of the faults and contradictions these entertainers make in their arguments every time they speak? or do people choose to ignore it? This is the level of brainwashing I'd expect in a cult...or have we become one?

Think of it like this. In the Soviet Union, the propaganda favored the state controlling everything.

In America, the propaganda favors the private sector controlling everything.

People are gullible, regardless of what country they live in, but in environments where propaganda is more pronounced, the people are manipulated easier. So yeah, some of this is the result of people like Rush. Essentially, this idea that government is evil and that the market solves everything is ingrained in us from the beginning.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:
I can only conclude that Americans have lost the ability to reason. I'm all for a debate, but I don't see any way out of this one. Please give me a reason to believe that we are anything but boned.

Americans haven't lost the ability to reason -- they never tended to reason much in the first place. The average person isn't that intelligent or focused on reason. Whether they admit to it or not, most people prefer to let others lead them or think for them.

We may claim to have a love of freedom and independence, but in our actions, few of us truly think independent of religion or a political dogma, and the ones that often do are more complacent than anything else. If a person isn't an ideologue, they are often simply fixated on instant gratification.

It's hard to find people that think independently, are pragmatic, and have a good amount of foresight.

So, it's not really an American thing so much as a humanity thing. Granted, our culture's fixation on shortsighted individuality can certainly make our lack of foresight and independent thinking more visible.

We also seem to have more extremists per capita than a lot of other First World countries. I suppose that's indicative of the propaganda I mentioned earlier.

2009-08-20 07:39:10

#9

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|6913|London, England

You know that woman who was saying Heil Hitler? She was wearing an IDF t-shirt if you look closely. Lmfao.

2009-08-20 07:44:32

#10

steelie34: pub hero!; +603|6673|the land of bourbon

Mekstizzle wrote:
You know that woman who was saying Heil Hitler? She was wearing an IDF t-shirt if you look closely. Lmfao.

omfg she is. seriously, what the fuck is wrong with some people? that is fail beyond comprehension.

https://bf3s.com/sigs/36e1d9e36ae924048a933db90fb05bb247fe315e.png

2009-08-20 07:57:45

#11

Pug: UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate; +652|6834|Texas - Bigger than France

Fancy_Pollux wrote:
What gave people this idea?

The White House is pointing fingers, telling everyone how they simply don't understand...and misconceptions breeding false assumptions...etc etc etc.

Perhaps if the White House did a better job selling it to the public this wouldn't be an issue. If the program is as super awesome as they say it is, I think the White House screwed up on the sales pitch.

2009-08-20 08:30:49

#12

steelie34: pub hero!; +603|6673|the land of bourbon

Pug wrote:
Fancy_Pollux wrote:
What gave people this idea?
The White House is pointing fingers, telling everyone how they simply don't understand...and misconceptions breeding false assumptions...etc etc etc.

Perhaps if the White House did a better job selling it to the public this wouldn't be an issue. If the program is as super awesome as they say it is, I think the White House screwed up on the sales pitch.

the real problem is that it's a complicated package. and explaining these concepts to some of the inbreds who show up at these town hall meetings is pretty much impossible.

2009-08-20 08:46:52

#13

Pug: UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate; +652|6834|Texas - Bigger than France

steelie34 wrote:
Pug wrote:
Fancy_Pollux wrote:
What gave people this idea?
The White House is pointing fingers, telling everyone how they simply don't understand...and misconceptions breeding false assumptions...etc etc etc.

Perhaps if the White House did a better job selling it to the public this wouldn't be an issue. If the program is as super awesome as they say it is, I think the White House screwed up on the sales pitch.
the real problem is that it's a complicated package. and explaining these concepts to some of the inbreds who show up at these town hall meetings is pretty much impossible.

You know what prevents misconceptions? A good, simple and easy message to understand. So why is it seen as a "complicated package"?

I'm also pretty sure that the gov't's strategy of spinning the town halls as "crazies are on the loose" is a bad idea.

2009-08-20 08:50:01

#14

Agent_Dung_Bomb: Member; +302|7028|Salt Lake City

It's funny that people are equating Obama's plan with Nazism, when the right wing pundits like Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, and the bunch are using the Nazi propaganda machine; Tell a lie often enough and long enough, and people will believe it.

2009-08-20 08:57:56

#15

Poseidon: Fudgepack DeQueef; +3,253|6829|Long Island, New York

Mekstizzle wrote:
You know that woman who was saying Heil Hitler? She was wearing an IDF t-shirt if you look closely. Lmfao.

Yes she was.

Amazing. Absolutely amazing.

2009-08-20 09:02:35

#16

steelie34: pub hero!; +603|6673|the land of bourbon

Pug wrote:
steelie34 wrote:
Pug wrote:

The White House is pointing fingers, telling everyone how they simply don't understand...and misconceptions breeding false assumptions...etc etc etc.

Perhaps if the White House did a better job selling it to the public this wouldn't be an issue. If the program is as super awesome as they say it is, I think the White House screwed up on the sales pitch.
the real problem is that it's a complicated package. and explaining these concepts to some of the inbreds who show up at these town hall meetings is pretty much impossible.
You know what prevents misconceptions? A good, simple and easy message to understand. So why is it seen as a "complicated package"?

I'm also pretty sure that the gov't's strategy of spinning the town halls as "crazies are on the loose" is a bad idea.

thats a good point. they should do a better job of explaining it, i just think what it entails is making several long reaching changes. it would be hard to really simplify it without insulting people's intelligence. to be completely honest, i'm not really sure i understand it myself.

and yes that spin is going to be bad PR in the long run.

2009-08-20 09:38:54

#17

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6892|132 and Bush

Poseidon wrote:
Mekstizzle wrote:
You know that woman who was saying Heil Hitler? She was wearing an IDF t-shirt if you look closely. Lmfao.
Yes she was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcRr5xA- … re=channel

Amazing. Absolutely amazing.

This actually makes sense. The Hitler remark was meant as sarcasm. Still, she's a total idiot.

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2009-08-20 09:54:38

#18

Pug: UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate; +652|6834|Texas - Bigger than France

steelie34 wrote:
Pug wrote:
You know what prevents misconceptions? A good, simple and easy message to understand. So why is it seen as a "complicated package"?

I'm also pretty sure that the gov't's strategy of spinning the town halls as "crazies are on the loose" is a bad idea.
thats a good point. they should do a better job of explaining it, i just think what it entails is making several long reaching changes. it would be hard to really simplify it without insulting people's intelligence. to be completely honest, i'm not really sure i understand it myself.

and yes that spin is going to be bad PR in the long run.

Here's my thought:
Here's a wonderful opportunity that might work great. All the gov't needed to do was explain it fully and concisely. My opinion is it is either arrogance due to lack of planning (it's the right thing to do, everyone loves us, so everyone will go along with it) or incompetence within the White House to clarify the message prior to proposing the law.

And what do we see now? You see a lot of noise and wagons circling, but have the issues actually been put to bed? My idea is you make it clear BEFORE you have to get public comment on it, and then you don't have to deal with it later.

Hell, there's even some discrepancies on the message:
White House Rethinks How It Sells Health Overhaul
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125064215795641841.html

Contradictions causing confusion based on Obama's speeches
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 … 23298.html

2009-08-20 10:12:42

#19

Diesel_dyk: Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears; +178|6286|Truthistan

Fancy_Pollux wrote:
I can only conclude that Americans have lost the ability to reason. I'm all for a debate, but I don't see any way out of this one. Please give me a reason to believe that we are anything but boned.

People need to be taught to reason, to think on their own, to analyze a situation and to come to a rationale conclusion. We are very far from an age of reason in the US. People here are taught from a young age to regurgitate knowledge and to sit on the side and cheer lead like its spirit day.

RAH RAH RAH B.... L.... U..... E..... Go Blue RAH RAH RAH We hate RED RAH RAH RAH

Ummm why do you hate red.... Because we're Blue RAH RAH RAH

Well In that case I'll wear purple, to which I would expect the reply, "pick a side and stay there."

and of course like any emotionally charged cheer leading event you are always going to have a few nuts that get carried away and run onto the field naked like the guys at town halls with guns or people with hitler moustaches on PBO.

Yah empty headed cheer leading is what people like this heil hilter woman are engaged in. If you asked her to draw a rational thought line between PBO and hitler or to simply describe what particular policies she disagrees with and why, I doubt she could. Most people have a tape of garbage buzz words and irrational thought jambed in their asses that they simply regurgitate... rah rah rah.

As for future hope....
Now if you want to look at something really scary look at this Welcome the New Pharaohs Now these guys are truly scary http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/ju … -c-street/

We the People are simply human resources and there will be no exodus into the promised land until people realize that fact. If only people would jamb that tape in their asses and regurgitate that, then we might have some hope for the future. OR better yet learn to think for yourself and a good place to start would be looking after your self interests. Take for instance this heil hitler woman, she makes a good case for a public option, her husband works 2.5 jobs and has no health care, its in her self interest (if she loves her husband) to see that he gets coverage... and she says it needs reform, but then she pull out the buzz words biblical values, not a natural born right, no one has an obligation to give you health care.... yup she's a regurgitator and another irrational cheer leader.

This country will fail if the gullible continue to be led by the greedy. Either the greedy have to become noble, which I doubt, or the gullible need to wake the F up.

2009-08-20 10:13:02

#20

Bradt3hleader: Care [ ] - Don't care [x]; +121|6228

I don't think we should give up on America!

I mean come on guys, Obama will only be president for 3 more years it'll be over before you know it!

2009-08-20 10:18:10

#21

SealXo: Member; +309|6827

Hitler = fascist -----> wants universal healthcare, corporate whore, strip rights, useless war, lies, propoganda... ect
^
^
obama

obama = fascist?

Last edited by SealXo (2009-08-20 10:19:22)

2009-08-20 10:27:29

#22

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|6941

SealXo wrote:
Hitler = fascist -----> wants universal healthcare, corporate whore, strip rights, useless war, lies, propoganda... ect
^
^
obama

obama = fascist?

You actually get stupider the more you post. Hitler was also a decorated veteran. Are you suggesting all veterans are Hitler?

2009-08-20 10:29:26

#23

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|6913|London, England

SealXo wrote:
Hitler = fascist -----> wants universal healthcare, corporate whore, strip rights, useless war, lies, propoganda... ect
^
^
obama

obama = fascist?

By that sort of logic, every single president the US has ever had can be called a fascist...

I think ghetto summed it up well, you get stupider the more you post.

2009-08-20 10:41:41

#24

Ioan92: Member; +337|6014

I have a theory about the stupidity of people, you may not like it.

It is a plot organized by those who control the world, they want to (and succeeded) into making masses stupid dumb-fucks. The reason is simple: prevent uprising.

If the population of this earth had an IQ higher than one of a tree, there wouldn't be pollution taxes for example. Those who control the world control the money supply and the laws. They use it to their advantage and making the masses stupid is just a tactic to lower any risk of uprising.

Why the fuck do you think Rockefeller wants to censor the internet? Because it is our last bastion.

Last edited by Ioan92 (2009-08-20 10:43:42)

2009-08-20 10:45:04

#25

steelie34: pub hero!; +603|6673|the land of bourbon

Ioan92 wrote:
I have a theory about the stupidity of people, you may not like it.

people? don't you mean sheeple?

BF2S Forums Is there any reason not to give up hope for America?

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Pug wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

steelie34 wrote:

Pug wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

Pug wrote:

steelie34 wrote:

Pug wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

steelie34 wrote:

Pug wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

SealXo wrote:

SealXo wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

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