Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5595

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124960404730212955.html
Yup congress just bought themselves 8 jets for $550 million dollars. Maybe usmarine could tell us how much it cost to service these things, in any case does anyone else but me think that maybe they could have just bought a few Cessnas to get around and such or hell just stayed in Washington so they don't have that excuse "well I wasn't there for that vote"?
Bradt3hleader
Care [ ] - Don't care [x]
+121|5945
That's what you get for electing people who take all the control. That's what's so funny about socialism and communism, everybody who isn't part of the government is equally poor.

[edit]spelling errors[/edit]

Last edited by Bradt3hleader (2009-08-07 17:46:05)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6610|132 and Bush

Macdill is already hosting their Gulfstream V's. (USM) might remember me asking him about a photo I took of them flying over my house.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6557|San Diego, CA, USA
I wonder how many first class or business class tickets that would pay for on the average airline?
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6610|132 and Bush

Found it here.

Confirmed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacDill_Air_Force_Base

Seems like an odd place to host them but I guess since they frequent Centcom here in Tampa it makes a little sense.

My memory tis awsm
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|6725
Do as they say... not as they do.
Love is the answer
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6414|North Carolina
Part of this would be fixed by hosting legislative sessions over an online network.  Instead of having Congress members fly back and forth between D.C. and their states/districts, they could stay in their home areas and conduct policy over a network.

This would save us a tremendous amount in travel costs, and it would actually allow Congress to get more work done among their constituents, rather than being so close to K Street all the time.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5595

Turquoise wrote:

Part of this would be fixed by hosting legislative sessions over an online network.  Instead of having Congress members fly back and forth between D.C. and their states/districts, they could stay in their home areas and conduct policy over a network.

This would save us a tremendous amount in travel costs, and it would actually allow Congress to get more work done among their constituents, rather than being so close to K Street all the time.
Imagine hacking a Senate vote. That'd be something
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6610|132 and Bush

Face to face meetings.. interacting the troops, and seeing first hand operations. These things are extremely important imo. There is a strong disconnect already happening in this country. Our congress needs to step outside and hear, smell, and feel the environments they govern. Air travel is a must... not sure if the cost or the amount of these jets is justified though.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6414|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Face to face meetings.. interacting the troops, and seeing first hand operations. These things are extremely important imo. There is a strong disconnect already happening in this country. Our congress needs to step outside and hear, smell, and feel the environments they govern. Air travel is a must... not sure if the cost or the amount of these jets is justified though.
I'd argue that remaining more in touch with their constituents is more important.  To me, that's the biggest disconnect I see in our system.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6610|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Face to face meetings.. interacting the troops, and seeing first hand operations. These things are extremely important imo. There is a strong disconnect already happening in this country. Our congress needs to step outside and hear, smell, and feel the environments they govern. Air travel is a must... not sure if the cost or the amount of these jets is justified though.
I'd argue that remaining more in touch with their constituents is more important.  To me, that's the biggest disconnect I see in our system.
And these jets will allow them to do that more. .. as well as do what is required in the capital.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6414|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Face to face meetings.. interacting the troops, and seeing first hand operations. These things are extremely important imo. There is a strong disconnect already happening in this country. Our congress needs to step outside and hear, smell, and feel the environments they govern. Air travel is a must... not sure if the cost or the amount of these jets is justified though.
I'd argue that remaining more in touch with their constituents is more important.  To me, that's the biggest disconnect I see in our system.
And these jets will allow them to do that more. .. as well as do what is required in the capital.
I just don't see the necessity in having a central meeting place.

I support decentralized government both in separation of powers and in organization of officials.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6610|132 and Bush

So they are supposed to hop on skype instead of the floor to debate wars and the economy?..lol. I firmly believe that these things need to be debated face to face. However, I'd love to see some of those congressional procedures initiated over the internalwebzz. Comedy gold me thinks.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6414|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

So they are supposed to hop on skype instead of the floor to debate wars and the economy?..lol. I firmly believe that these things need to be debated face to face. However, I'd love to see some of those congressional procedures initiated over the internalwebzz. Comedy gold me thinks.
A lack of a meeting place does not negate the need for set meeting times and formalities.  Via teleconferencing, the corporate world makes numerous important decisions on a daily basis.

I don't see why government can't mimic this design.  It is efficient and makes optimal use of technology.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6610|132 and Bush

Funny you should say that considering the jets congress are buying are called corporate jets.. lol.
They are mimicking them and the biggest companies fly all the time to meetings.. especially when it is important. They understand the difference between face to face interaction and sitting behind a screen. Body Language, tone, first hand knowledge and experience.. invaluable.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6414|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Funny you should say that considering the jets congress are buying are called corporate jets.. lol.
They are mimicking them and the biggest companies fly all the time to meetings.. especially when it is important. They understand the difference between face to face interaction and sitting behind a screen. Body Language, tone, first hand knowledge and experience.. invaluable.
I believe some of these are vestiges of human instincts.  With technology, we slowly evolve past these things.

I'm sure when phones were first set up, many shunned the extensive use of them.  Now, people can't separate themselves from them.

I have a feeling that, in the near future, there will be much less of an emphasis on face-to-face communication both in the corporate world and in government when it comes to dealing with vast distances.

As things currently stand, there would seem to be too much infrastructure and influence centered in D.C. and the surrounding areas.  This could be remedied via technology.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6610|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Funny you should say that considering the jets congress are buying are called corporate jets.. lol.
They are mimicking them and the biggest companies fly all the time to meetings.. especially when it is important. They understand the difference between face to face interaction and sitting behind a screen. Body Language, tone, first hand knowledge and experience.. invaluable.
I believe some of these are vestiges of human instincts.  With technology, we slowly evolve past these things.

I'm sure when phones were first set up, many shunned the extensive use of them.  Now, people can't separate themselves from them.

I have a feeling that, in the near future, there will be much less of an emphasis on face-to-face communication both in the corporate world and in government when it comes to dealing with vast distances.

As things currently stand, there would seem to be too much infrastructure and influence centered in D.C. and the surrounding areas.  This could be remedied via technology.
The rules would have to be completely rewritten. I can only assume that you have not been to too many formal meetings. We are DEvolving as we pursue these less personable social interactions. They are at the core of our being. We aren't talking about governors here.. we are talking about the federal government. It simply can not work without direct interaction with colleagues. To suggest that every committee link up to their lappy's to discuss geopolitcal warfare is ludicrous. MUCH is lost when you aren't sitting right in front of them. Not all communication is transmitted over wire. And sometimes it a good thing to have a colleague taking another colleague out to eat and picking his brain, or building a consensus. It easier to work for a common goal when you actually work together. These big corporations that you say the Government should be following (btw wtf) do this. Not only do they encourage it but they sponsor it by buying dinners and sending them of to camps etc..
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6414|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

The rules would have to be completely rewritten. I can only assume that you have not been to too many formal meetings. We are DEvolving as we pursue these less personable social interactions.
I disagree.  When people focus less on mannerisms and more on words and facts, they become more logical.  When emotion is slowly drained out of interactions, this serves rationality well.

Now, I realize that with friendships and marriages, the personability and emotion is needed, but when constructing policy, it should be an exercise of pure logic.  Clearly, given some of the ludicrous laws we come up with, logic is often neglected.

Kmarion wrote:

They are at the core of our being. We aren't talking about governors here.. we are talking about the federal government. It simply can not work without direct interaction with colleagues. To suggest that every committee link up to their lappy's to discuss geopolitcal warfare is ludicris.
Not really.  Diplomacy with foreign leaders needs to be personal, but when discussing things among your own legislature, impersonal communication allows a more rational focus.

Kmarion wrote:

MUCH is lost when you aren't sitting right in front of them. Not all communication is transmitted over wire. And sometimes it a good thing to have a colleague taking another colleague out to eat and picking his brain, or building a consensus. It easier to work for a common goal when you actually work together. These big corporations that you say the Government should be following (btw wtf) do this. Not only do they encourage it but they sponsor it by buying dinners and sending them of to camps etc..
I see what you're saying, but that sounds less like rational choices being made and more about emotional gratification with subtle favors.  This is sidestepping what should be the focus of a law -- the reasoning behind it, not the packaging.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6610|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

The rules would have to be completely rewritten. I can only assume that you have not been to too many formal meetings. We are DEvolving as we pursue these less personable social interactions.
I disagree.  When people focus less on mannerisms and more on words and facts, they become more logical.  When emotion is slowly drained out of interactions, this serves rationality well.

Now, I realize that with friendships and marriages, the personability and emotion is needed, but when constructing policy, it should be an exercise of pure logic.  Clearly, given some of the ludicrous laws we come up with, logic is often neglected.
Getting to the facts sometimes requires you to read the person. That is the truth. People convey this communication both intentional and unintentionally. Your statement sounds all good and well but you are absolutely kidding yourself into thinking emotion can be drained out of the governance of people.

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

They are at the core of our being. We aren't talking about governors here.. we are talking about the federal government. It simply can not work without direct interaction with colleagues. To suggest that every committee link up to their lappy's to discuss geopolitcal warfare is ludicris.
Not really.  Diplomacy with foreign leaders needs to be personal, but when discussing things among your own legislature, impersonal communication allows a more rational focus.

Kmarion wrote:

MUCH is lost when you aren't sitting right in front of them. Not all communication is transmitted over wire. And sometimes it a good thing to have a colleague taking another colleague out to eat and picking his brain, or building a consensus. It easier to work for a common goal when you actually work together. These big corporations that you say the Government should be following (btw wtf) do this. Not only do they encourage it but they sponsor it by buying dinners and sending them of to camps etc..
I see what you're saying, but that sounds less like rational choices being made and more about emotional gratification with subtle favors.  This is sidestepping what should be the focus of a law -- the reasoning behind it, not the packaging.
Social behavior and interaction isn't at the core of our existence? I hope you are kidding. There is no difference. You should interact personally in your own house as well. Flying down to CentCom - sitting down with the commanders and going over plans in depth sure as hell beats videoconferencing and playing armchair commander in my book.

We are going to have to agree to disagree here. I think you severely underestimate face to face communication and traveling to important places (where the job is done).
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6414|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Getting to the facts sometimes requires you to read the person. That is the truth. People convey this communication both intentional and unintentionally. Your statement sounds all good and well but you are absolutely kidding yourself into think emotion can be drained out of the governance of people.
Good point...  a sad but true state of affairs.

Kmarion wrote:

Social behavior and interaction isn't at the core of our existence? I hope you are kidding. There is no difference. You should interact personally in your own house as well. Flying down to CentCom - sitting down with the commanders and going over plans in depth sure as hell beats videoconferencing and playing armchair commander in my book.
Currently, we are social beings.  Genetically, we have the potential to become much more.
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6690|Disaster Free Zone
A telephone is much cheaper... Even one of those video phone thingies.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6725

DrunkFace wrote:

A telephone is much cheaper... Even one of those video phone thingies.
As a leader or politician it is best to meet people in person. Even in the business world it's the same. But I strongly don't condone the buying of private jets... Commercial motherfuckers.



That reminds me of congress lolz.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6231|Brisneyland
Look on the bright side, $550 mill into air making industry should help stimulate the economy a bit. Hopefully provide jobs, component manufacturers will be kept busy as well. Flow on effect from these may help some communities.

Of course it does look like a rort, but I would rather see it go to manufacture than go to banking exec salaries.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6725

Burwhale wrote:

Look on the bright side, $550 mill into air making industry should help stimulate the economy a bit. Hopefully provide jobs, component manufacturers will be kept busy as well. Flow on effect from these may help some communities.

Of course it does look like a rort, but I would rather see it go to manufacture than go to banking exec salaries.
Might as well just buy more 747's or 737's tbh.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6420|'Murka

Kmarion wrote:

Found it here.

Confirmed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacDill_Air_Force_Base

Seems like an odd place to host them but I guess since they frequent Centcom here in Tampa it makes a little sense.

My memory tis awsm
The Wing there might "own" the jets, but the jets "live" at the various Combatant Commanders' host bases. The extra jets Congress bought would probably be hosted at Andrews AFB MD by the 89th AW, which is the primary VIP airlift unit.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

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