BF2S Forums What should the minimum wage be?

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Who in my opinion shouldn't be entitled to a minimum wage - or only a substantially reduced one. Teenagers with jobs are typically not supporting themselves and so don't need a minimum wage.

Because it forces would be employees to discriminate against teens... Of course it also discriminates against the unskilled laborer.

Then again, considering how slim the workforces of most businesses that pay minimum wage are, it's unlikely that rises in the minimum wage would actually result in trimming payroll, because they typically already have a skeleton crew.

Beyond that, in many areas, hiring illegals happens anyway, so the minimum wage is a non-issue for those employers.

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Then again, considering how slim the workforces of most businesses that pay minimum wage are, it's unlikely that rises in the minimum wage would actually result in trimming payroll, because they typically already have a skeleton crew.

Beyond that, in many areas, hiring illegals happens anyway, so the minimum wage is a non-issue for those employers.

If they aren't in a position to a)Pay more b) Staff up, the likely result of forcing a pay increase wages is shutting the business down. .. not "trimming the payroll".

That's assuming they're paying their help the max they can, which they clearly aren't.

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

That's assuming they're paying their help the max they can, which they clearly aren't.

Why so clearly.. you assume much. .. again. It makes sense to have a happy workforce. It's been shown to improve quality and producivity over and over.

Ask yourself if the majority of minimum wage places you go to are hiring the max number of workers they can.  Then, consider why the payrolls are so slim.  It's because these business owners naturally want to maximize profit.  They hire as few people as possible with the lowest wage the market will bear.

Minimum wage just makes sure that the lowest wage doesn't lag too much with regard to inflation.

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Ask yourself if the majority of minimum wage places you go to are hiring the max number of workers they can.  Then, consider why the payrolls are so slim.  It's because these business owners naturally want to maximize profit.  They hire as few people as possible with the lowest wage the market will bear.

Minimum wage just makes sure that the lowest wage doesn't lag too much with regard to inflation.

They are hiring that max number of what they need to operate. Of course they try to maximize profit.. why the hell shouldn't they? You are looking for charity. Plain and simple. If the job doesn't pay well find another. They are out there... usually amongst the worlds most successful businesses. AGAIN, it makes sense for a company to have a content workforce. That's why they offer benefits like medical, stock options, etc..

Last time I checked, most minimum wage businesses didn't offer benefits.

You can call it charity all you want, but nearly every other First World nation has governmental limits to minimum wage.  A certain amount of intervention is necessary.

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Er.. probably because they couldn't offer them. Where did you check exactly? Please tell me. Maybe we can clear this up once and for all.
There is a reason for this:
http://i34.tinypic.com/33nc9wy.jpg

That looks like a pretty steady rise in income over the years.  None of the annual changes really seem that dramatic.  Likewise, raising the minimum wage by about a dollar isn't that much.

Kmarion wrote:

How is it not charity?

How is it not necessary to account for inflation when illegals are part of the market?  What the market will bear right now is considerably below what most of us call tolerable living, as you allude to below.

Kmarion wrote:

Why is it necessary? There is a reason illegals are hired.. because Americans won't work for such low wages. The government doesn't have to tell the employer that, he knows. If you want to run a business you need employees, and thus you need to pay an amount that will attract employees. The only reason illegals are doing below current minimum wage work s because they are coming from a third world country (relative shithole), and they aren't being taxed to support those who think they are above minimum wage (AKA the unemployed).

And given these facts, do you think it's appropriate to let Third World immigrants bring wages down (legal or otherwise) just because they are used to living under shitty conditions?

Personally, I don't.  This is why I support raising the minimum wage periodically.

Lotta_Drool wrote:

lowing wrote:

Minimum wage should be what a person is willing to do the work for. The end

If there weren't fucking Mexicans living in vans on every corner taking jobs from Americans I would agree.

Cybargs wrote:

lowing wrote:

Minimum wage should be what a person is willing to do the work for. The end

Like all the sweatshop workers in Asia and Latin America? Working 16 hours a day for 10 cents an hour. Free market is great isn't it. We might as well put our kids to work in there just like the reconstruction era!

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Like all the sweatshop workers in Asia and Latin America? Working 16 hours a day for 10 cents an hour. Free market is great isn't it. We might as well put our kids to work in there just like the reconstruction era!

ummmmm ever thought of NOT taking or even applying for a 10cent job? Maybe make yourself marketable so your skills are worth more? i dunno just a crazy fuckin' thought I had.

Uh...  in the example he gave, those kids don't have much of a choice.

Cybargs wrote:

Mininum wage laws are a barrier to protect the country against strong corporations. I'm pretty sure none of you would want to go back where Tycoons like Rockerfeller and Carnegie owned the country. It creates a HUGE gap between the rich and the poor. A strong middle class is essential for any 1st world nation.

Cybargs wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Uh...  in the example he gave, those kids don't have much of a choice.

We are not in Latin America or Asia, as I am sure Cybarqs isn't either, unless the sweatshops provide highspeed internet for break time.

We are talking about minimum wage in our country as well as other developed nations. I refuse to compare what is happening in third world countries, to what is happening here. It is not the same thing, and is not the same issue. If someone wants to make a thread about third world sweatshops by all mean do so and I will post my opinion, in the mean time I would thank you to keep the topic of minimum wage in our country, IN our country.

So having said that, I will let my previous post stand and wait for a ( real and relevant) response to it

Well Taiwan has moved pass the sweatshop age into the white collar age.

I'll give the relative example of Taiwan. Lets use my grandfather's factory as an example. Most kids try to sign up to work here are college grads, with four year degrees. They get paid about 850usd a month, 0800-1700 mon-fri. Most of the work is metal works. Well cost of living here is quite low here too...
But these are kids with four year college degrees. Back then jobs like this were for high school drop outs. Job market is utter shit, mininum age is utter shit too. Taiwan is pretty developed as well, not some third world shit hole.

The rich here are incredibly rich. nearly no middle class, but a lot of working class. Mcdonalds get paid around 2.75 an hour... And that's for most employers as well, pretty much no matter what your job is. They get paid fuck all.

Mininum wage laws are a barrier to protect the country against strong corporations. I'm pretty sure none of you would want to go back where Tycoons like Rockerfeller and Carnegie owned the country. It creates a HUGE gap between the rich and the poor. A strong middle class is essential for any 1st world nation.