Hey all!! This is my first post but I find the bf2s wiki SOOOO useful I thought I'd post this here. It was originally posted on the totalbf2.com forum so feel free to check it out there as well. anyways, here it goes:
I did a lot of looking before I unlocked the MG36 a few days ago and they were very mixed so I thought I would give my opinion and some information to back it up. Feel free to agree, disagree and the like. As support is a very underplayed class I think some constructive discussion would do us some good. I got my info from wiki.bf2s.com
MG36
600 rounds per minute
30dmg per round
4.9sec reload
4 rounds to kill unarmored
5 to kill armored
PKM
450 rounds per minute
45dmg per round
6.3sec reload
3 rounds to kill unarmored
4 to kill armored
Rate of Fire (ROF)/Time to Kill
While the PKM takes less rounds to kill any target, it's slower rate of fire means it will take 25% longer to fire off each round. Most people choose the PKM because it "Does more damage per shot so it kills faster". To kill an unarmored target, it takes 25% more rounds with the MG36 which means both will kill an unarmored target in the same ammount of time. On an armored target, however, it takes only 20% more rounds meaning the MG36 will kill an armored target 5% faster. I find this helps considerably against assault troops as well as AT troops. Also, the MG36 has a smaller min. deviation, meaning I am more likely to hit with every shot. At long ranges this can make the difference between winning and losing. Also, the MG36 is rated as "high damage" on the 3-round burst mode meaning it will kill an unarmored target in 3 rounds and an armored in 4. If you keep the MG36 on 3-round burst mode it will kill in 3 shots but more quickly due to the increased rate of fire. Three-round burst is not as effective in certain situations but it adds to the overall diversity of the gun. If you want the 3-round kill you have it, if you want the more accurate higher rate of fire you have it, all in the same package.
Total Damage Output
The other reason I saw people prefer the PKM is total damage output. I was worried about this until I played a round with the MG36 and found myself killing more people than my team mates with PKMs. Here are some numbers, not taking into account overheating. These assume the gun fires all rounds without stopping. I will calculate them later with overheating and the MG36 will jump way into the lead:
Rounds Till Overheat
PKM
41
MG36
77
Ideal Situation Where Guns Do Not Overheat
5sec
PKM
45 rounds fired
1,687dmg
MG36
50 rounds fired
1,500dmg
1 clip
PKM
13.3repeating seconds
4,500dmg
MG36
10 seconds
3,000dmg
all 4 clips
PKM
72.23repeating seconds
18,000dmg
MG36
54.7 seconds
12,000dmg
At short time intervals the PKM can put out more damage, but with the larger deviation of shots (how likely it is to shoot where you point it) it is less likely to do the full ammount of damage. The PKM takes 1.25min to squeeze off all 4 clips, while the MG36 can do it in under 60 seconds. Most people preach firing the LMG in 2-3 shot bursts, and I used to agree when I used the PKM but the MG36 is SO much more accurate that even on long range targets I just hold down the trigger and usually get the kill.
Add to all of this the fact that the MG36 can fire off almost the whole clip before it overheats, and the MG36 can put out a scary ammount of cover fire. I find that if I let off the trigger for .5 to 1 second per clip I can fire the whole MG36 clip without it overheating.
Reality
It takes 4.5 seconds for the gun to totally recover from overheating.
Either gun can be fired in 3-round bursts and not overheat, however the 3-round burst mode built in to the MG36 not only upps the damage to high like the PKM according to DICE, it is also considerably faster. While I do not have numbers of it's high damage, from testing I can say a single 3 round burst will kill an un-armored target which basically makes the 2 identical guns.
Firing times including overheat:
1 clip
PKM
13.3repeating seconds of firing + 4.5 sec overheat + 2.1 sec overheat
total: 19.9 sec almost 50% spent recovering from overheating
MG36
10sec firing + 1sec overheat
total: 11 sec
all 4 clips
PKM
98.5sec
MG36
58.7sec
Once you factor in overheating you can see that the MG36 REALLY pulls ahead in terms of damage done over time. These are all minimum times, in reality you will probably fire a few tenths of a second slower because of a slower reaction time. But as you can see even with overheating the MG36 can fire 400 rounds in less than 60sec while the PKM takes almost 1min 40sec. This makes the MG36 over 50% faster than the PKM. While the PKM does 50% more damage per round, the MG36 does damage 59.6% faster, effectively doing 9.6% more damage than the PKM even though it does not hit as hard.
Reload Time
PKM 6.3 seconds
MG36 4.9 seconds
I think the numbers speak for themselves here. I find the shorter reload time (33% shorter) means I can reload without having to worry about getting killed as much. If I am trying to take a flag I often found people respawning before I finished reloading my PKM, but the MG36 is ready to go when I am. Also, with the addition of reloading while sprinting in 1.2 you will be able to start reloading your MG36 part way through your sprint and not have to worry about finishing before you get to your target location.
Accuracy
minimum deviation for the PKM is .8
minimum deviation for the MG36 is .75
The standing/crouching/prone accuracies are all identical, as well as deviation per shot.
This means the MG36 is roughly 6.3% more accurate pr round. While this does not seem like much it is enough for wiki.bf2s.com to list it as medium and the PKM a low. The difference in game is noticable. Anyone who has the M95 can tell you that high accuracy is NOT as good as the very high accuracy on the regular USMC rifle. I find the MG36 to be significantly more accurate at medium to long ranges, especially on fully automatic.
Sights
The PKM sight is bulky and gets in the way considerably, especially if trying to fire from any distance. The MG36 has a wonderfully open sight. The line can get in the way if you're trying to snipe but then again if you're trying to snipe you've got the wrong gun friend.
Other
Anyone who has ever played knows the sound of a PKM firing. It is one of the most distinct gun noises in the game. The MG36 is much quiter and I find that I am much safer while firing the gun from a stationary position. With the PKM people could easily hear me from far away and I died to a lot of hand grenades from people I never saw.
With the new patch and the support getting an accuracy tweak who knows what will happen to these guns; as long as they do not make the PKM as accurate or more accurate than the MG36 I think the MG36 will remain the superior support gun overall. Some people may prefer the larger clip size of the stock guns or their shape or color, but these are all personal preference. While personal preference should come into play of course, I feel that the MG36 is a very worth while unlock and superior to the PKM in almost every way.
Where is the PKM Superior?
The ONLY place I have not decided is when it comes to destroying Humvees with the LMG. Honestly, it's a one shot kill for an AT player and I feel it would be best left up to them, but I never hesitate to shoot a humvee even if it is about to run me over because some damage is better than none. If you are close enough then I feel the PKM is superior for destroying humvees because it does it faster than the MG36, however, I usually find myself shooting the blackhawk or humvees at a distance, in shich case the MG36 still wins out. I often can shoot the gunners or engineers in a blackhawk with the MG36, but never quite got it with the PKM because they were at such a distance that the gun just was not accurate enough.
So what Does This All Mean?
According to the numbers and the game physics, the MG36 is superior, however my belief is the gun you prefer will be the gun you are best with. Why? Half of this game is mentality. If you don't like the way your gun feels or sounds or looks you will be concentrating on that more than playing. Also, this game is about enjoyment, not being "best" (unless being the best you can be is how you enjoy the game) so who cares what gun is the best? If you like the pistol then use it! In the end I believe the MG36 is a superior gun. When I first unlocked it I thought it was better but I couldn't figure out why so I did some looking and made some videos to show why, but if the PKM is your favorite then use it. I am not claiming the MG36 is the best gun in the game because I don't think it is, and I'm not saying the PKM is a bad unlock because it isn't. Honestly I think it's the second best vanilla unlock in the game.
VIDEOS:
After recording the videos and playing around a little I think it is obvious that against any more than a single target (and even then with the accuracy difference) the MG36 is an unbelieveable gun. If the sight doesn't sell you how about firing almost 2x the bullets? Keep in mind, the MG36 shot is after 77 rounds fired. These videos were compressed for size. If you want the full 120mb video say so and I can upload it, but I think these are clear enough.
Video of PKM full-auto
hthttp://files.filefront.com/PKMcompressedavi/;4711970;;/fileinfo.html
Video of MG36 full-auto
http://files.filefront.com/MG36compressedavi/;4711995;;/fileinfo.html
Video of MG36 destroying jeep
http://files.filefront.com/MG36Jeepavi/;4715061;;/fileinfo.html
Video of PKM destroying jeep
http://files.filefront.com/PKMJeepavi/;4715088;;/fileinfo.html
Since the videos are compressed, here's a full resolution screenshot taken at the end:
PKM
http://files.filefront.com/PKMbmp/;4712011;;/fileinfo.html
MG36
http://files.filefront.com/MG36bmp/;4712019;;/fileinfo.html
PKM 3-shot burst
http://files.filefront.com/PKM_burstbmp/;4715021;;/fileinfo.html
MG36 full-auto 3-shot burst
http://files.filefront.com/MG36_auto_burstbmp/;4715002;;/fileinfo.html
MG36 3-shot burst mode
http://files.filefront.com/MG36_burstbmp/;4715016;;/fileinfo.html
Revisions
I figure I don't know how far this is going to go but here's a cheat sheet of the changes I have made:
1) 2/1/06 Added the max number of rounds before the gun overheats to Total Damage Output
2) 2/1/06 Added Sights section
3) 2/1/06 Added videos and screen shots
4) 2/2/06 Added cooldown times for the guns when firing full auto and 3-round burst.
5) 2/2/06 Added What Does All This Mean?
6) 2/2/06 Edited Rate of Fire
7) 2/2/06 Added video of both guns destroying jeep, and pictures of their 3-shot burst accuracy.
I did a lot of looking before I unlocked the MG36 a few days ago and they were very mixed so I thought I would give my opinion and some information to back it up. Feel free to agree, disagree and the like. As support is a very underplayed class I think some constructive discussion would do us some good. I got my info from wiki.bf2s.com
MG36
600 rounds per minute
30dmg per round
4.9sec reload
4 rounds to kill unarmored
5 to kill armored
PKM
450 rounds per minute
45dmg per round
6.3sec reload
3 rounds to kill unarmored
4 to kill armored
Rate of Fire (ROF)/Time to Kill
While the PKM takes less rounds to kill any target, it's slower rate of fire means it will take 25% longer to fire off each round. Most people choose the PKM because it "Does more damage per shot so it kills faster". To kill an unarmored target, it takes 25% more rounds with the MG36 which means both will kill an unarmored target in the same ammount of time. On an armored target, however, it takes only 20% more rounds meaning the MG36 will kill an armored target 5% faster. I find this helps considerably against assault troops as well as AT troops. Also, the MG36 has a smaller min. deviation, meaning I am more likely to hit with every shot. At long ranges this can make the difference between winning and losing. Also, the MG36 is rated as "high damage" on the 3-round burst mode meaning it will kill an unarmored target in 3 rounds and an armored in 4. If you keep the MG36 on 3-round burst mode it will kill in 3 shots but more quickly due to the increased rate of fire. Three-round burst is not as effective in certain situations but it adds to the overall diversity of the gun. If you want the 3-round kill you have it, if you want the more accurate higher rate of fire you have it, all in the same package.
Total Damage Output
The other reason I saw people prefer the PKM is total damage output. I was worried about this until I played a round with the MG36 and found myself killing more people than my team mates with PKMs. Here are some numbers, not taking into account overheating. These assume the gun fires all rounds without stopping. I will calculate them later with overheating and the MG36 will jump way into the lead:
Rounds Till Overheat
PKM
41
MG36
77
Ideal Situation Where Guns Do Not Overheat
5sec
PKM
45 rounds fired
1,687dmg
MG36
50 rounds fired
1,500dmg
1 clip
PKM
13.3repeating seconds
4,500dmg
MG36
10 seconds
3,000dmg
all 4 clips
PKM
72.23repeating seconds
18,000dmg
MG36
54.7 seconds
12,000dmg
At short time intervals the PKM can put out more damage, but with the larger deviation of shots (how likely it is to shoot where you point it) it is less likely to do the full ammount of damage. The PKM takes 1.25min to squeeze off all 4 clips, while the MG36 can do it in under 60 seconds. Most people preach firing the LMG in 2-3 shot bursts, and I used to agree when I used the PKM but the MG36 is SO much more accurate that even on long range targets I just hold down the trigger and usually get the kill.
Add to all of this the fact that the MG36 can fire off almost the whole clip before it overheats, and the MG36 can put out a scary ammount of cover fire. I find that if I let off the trigger for .5 to 1 second per clip I can fire the whole MG36 clip without it overheating.
Reality
It takes 4.5 seconds for the gun to totally recover from overheating.
Either gun can be fired in 3-round bursts and not overheat, however the 3-round burst mode built in to the MG36 not only upps the damage to high like the PKM according to DICE, it is also considerably faster. While I do not have numbers of it's high damage, from testing I can say a single 3 round burst will kill an un-armored target which basically makes the 2 identical guns.
Firing times including overheat:
1 clip
PKM
13.3repeating seconds of firing + 4.5 sec overheat + 2.1 sec overheat
total: 19.9 sec almost 50% spent recovering from overheating
MG36
10sec firing + 1sec overheat
total: 11 sec
all 4 clips
PKM
98.5sec
MG36
58.7sec
Once you factor in overheating you can see that the MG36 REALLY pulls ahead in terms of damage done over time. These are all minimum times, in reality you will probably fire a few tenths of a second slower because of a slower reaction time. But as you can see even with overheating the MG36 can fire 400 rounds in less than 60sec while the PKM takes almost 1min 40sec. This makes the MG36 over 50% faster than the PKM. While the PKM does 50% more damage per round, the MG36 does damage 59.6% faster, effectively doing 9.6% more damage than the PKM even though it does not hit as hard.
Reload Time
PKM 6.3 seconds
MG36 4.9 seconds
I think the numbers speak for themselves here. I find the shorter reload time (33% shorter) means I can reload without having to worry about getting killed as much. If I am trying to take a flag I often found people respawning before I finished reloading my PKM, but the MG36 is ready to go when I am. Also, with the addition of reloading while sprinting in 1.2 you will be able to start reloading your MG36 part way through your sprint and not have to worry about finishing before you get to your target location.
Accuracy
minimum deviation for the PKM is .8
minimum deviation for the MG36 is .75
The standing/crouching/prone accuracies are all identical, as well as deviation per shot.
This means the MG36 is roughly 6.3% more accurate pr round. While this does not seem like much it is enough for wiki.bf2s.com to list it as medium and the PKM a low. The difference in game is noticable. Anyone who has the M95 can tell you that high accuracy is NOT as good as the very high accuracy on the regular USMC rifle. I find the MG36 to be significantly more accurate at medium to long ranges, especially on fully automatic.
Sights
The PKM sight is bulky and gets in the way considerably, especially if trying to fire from any distance. The MG36 has a wonderfully open sight. The line can get in the way if you're trying to snipe but then again if you're trying to snipe you've got the wrong gun friend.
Other
Anyone who has ever played knows the sound of a PKM firing. It is one of the most distinct gun noises in the game. The MG36 is much quiter and I find that I am much safer while firing the gun from a stationary position. With the PKM people could easily hear me from far away and I died to a lot of hand grenades from people I never saw.
With the new patch and the support getting an accuracy tweak who knows what will happen to these guns; as long as they do not make the PKM as accurate or more accurate than the MG36 I think the MG36 will remain the superior support gun overall. Some people may prefer the larger clip size of the stock guns or their shape or color, but these are all personal preference. While personal preference should come into play of course, I feel that the MG36 is a very worth while unlock and superior to the PKM in almost every way.
Where is the PKM Superior?
The ONLY place I have not decided is when it comes to destroying Humvees with the LMG. Honestly, it's a one shot kill for an AT player and I feel it would be best left up to them, but I never hesitate to shoot a humvee even if it is about to run me over because some damage is better than none. If you are close enough then I feel the PKM is superior for destroying humvees because it does it faster than the MG36, however, I usually find myself shooting the blackhawk or humvees at a distance, in shich case the MG36 still wins out. I often can shoot the gunners or engineers in a blackhawk with the MG36, but never quite got it with the PKM because they were at such a distance that the gun just was not accurate enough.
So what Does This All Mean?
According to the numbers and the game physics, the MG36 is superior, however my belief is the gun you prefer will be the gun you are best with. Why? Half of this game is mentality. If you don't like the way your gun feels or sounds or looks you will be concentrating on that more than playing. Also, this game is about enjoyment, not being "best" (unless being the best you can be is how you enjoy the game) so who cares what gun is the best? If you like the pistol then use it! In the end I believe the MG36 is a superior gun. When I first unlocked it I thought it was better but I couldn't figure out why so I did some looking and made some videos to show why, but if the PKM is your favorite then use it. I am not claiming the MG36 is the best gun in the game because I don't think it is, and I'm not saying the PKM is a bad unlock because it isn't. Honestly I think it's the second best vanilla unlock in the game.
VIDEOS:
After recording the videos and playing around a little I think it is obvious that against any more than a single target (and even then with the accuracy difference) the MG36 is an unbelieveable gun. If the sight doesn't sell you how about firing almost 2x the bullets? Keep in mind, the MG36 shot is after 77 rounds fired. These videos were compressed for size. If you want the full 120mb video say so and I can upload it, but I think these are clear enough.
Video of PKM full-auto
hthttp://files.filefront.com/PKMcompressedavi/;4711970;;/fileinfo.html
Video of MG36 full-auto
http://files.filefront.com/MG36compressedavi/;4711995;;/fileinfo.html
Video of MG36 destroying jeep
http://files.filefront.com/MG36Jeepavi/;4715061;;/fileinfo.html
Video of PKM destroying jeep
http://files.filefront.com/PKMJeepavi/;4715088;;/fileinfo.html
Since the videos are compressed, here's a full resolution screenshot taken at the end:
PKM
http://files.filefront.com/PKMbmp/;4712011;;/fileinfo.html
MG36
http://files.filefront.com/MG36bmp/;4712019;;/fileinfo.html
PKM 3-shot burst
http://files.filefront.com/PKM_burstbmp/;4715021;;/fileinfo.html
MG36 full-auto 3-shot burst
http://files.filefront.com/MG36_auto_burstbmp/;4715002;;/fileinfo.html
MG36 3-shot burst mode
http://files.filefront.com/MG36_burstbmp/;4715016;;/fileinfo.html
Revisions
I figure I don't know how far this is going to go but here's a cheat sheet of the changes I have made:
1) 2/1/06 Added the max number of rounds before the gun overheats to Total Damage Output
2) 2/1/06 Added Sights section
3) 2/1/06 Added videos and screen shots
4) 2/2/06 Added cooldown times for the guns when firing full auto and 3-round burst.
5) 2/2/06 Added What Does All This Mean?
6) 2/2/06 Edited Rate of Fire
7) 2/2/06 Added video of both guns destroying jeep, and pictures of their 3-shot burst accuracy.
Last edited by Lazy8s (2006-02-05 15:11:18)