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2009-07-21 05:40:31
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6916|USA

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:


He produced his ID. Two sets of photo ID.

The police officer refused to give name and badge number.

So, your point is.... what?
not initially. He refused in the beginning.

the cops refusal to bow to this guy is understandable. At that time, the cop was in control of the scene, not the suspect.
Um, what?

The cop has to bows to someone when asked for name and badge number after they have concluded the B&E investigation?

You really are biased against black people, aren't you?
"By the time police arrived, Gates was already inside. Police say he refused to come outside to speak with an officer, who told him he was investigating a report of a break-in.

"Why, because I'm a black man in America?" Gates said, according to a police report written by Sgt. James Crowley. The Cambridge police refused to comment on the arrest Monday.

Gates — the director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research — initially refused to show the officer his identification, but then gave him a Harvard University ID card, according to police."

"Gates continued to yell at me, accusing me of racial bias and continued to tell me that I had not heard the last of him," the officer wrote."

Kinda speaks for itself and what really happened there.


As for the second comment I will not even dignify it with a response.
2009-07-21 05:42:36
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6418|what

Any of the above warrant an arrest?

No?
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2009-07-21 05:43:12
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6916|USA

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

Already stated my point. this guy was baiting for anything he could use to scream racism.
Planned this for months did he?

I'll break into my own home to be abused by police officers so I am arrested and can then claim racism.

Yeah, he was baiting the officers from day one...
You ought to know better than anyone, since you prove it with every post practically, where you want to find racism you can simply make it up. It does not take months of planning especially when you are pre-loaded to such tendencies.
2009-07-21 05:44:18
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6916|USA

AussieReaper wrote:

Any of the above warrant an arrest?

No?
Yup, disorderly conduct for openers. how about interfering with an investigation?
2009-07-21 05:52:10
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6912

Bertster7 wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

It amazing how fast common sense goes out the door when it turns into a everyone vs. lowing thread.

All the mans gotta do when the cops ask him for his ID is give the cops his ID and that would be the end of it.

Second, if you look like you're trying to break into house, it doesn't matter what skin color you are. Get the fuck over it.
He did what he was supposed to do, the cops didn't. Then they arrested him for disorderly conduct in his own home - despite the fact you have to be in a public place (or someone elses privately owned premises) to be charged with disorderly conduct.

It's very clear cut and the cops were in the wrong. If he got a bit over excited, then fair enough, it's his house, he's allowed to.
You can be arrested for disorderly conduct in your own home. If you don't think so, try blasting music at 3 in the morning and refuse to turn it off.

And no, you can't just go apeshit with cops. If you refuse to cooperate, they can arrest you.
2009-07-21 05:56:23
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6418|what

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Any of the above warrant an arrest?

No?
Yup, disorderly conduct for openers. how about interfering with an investigation?
He didn't interfere with the investigation, he provided 2 sets of I.D.

He was arrested
on a disorderly conduct charge after police said he "exhibited loud and tumultuous behavior."
Think he may have been loud and tumultuous at the officer who refused to give him name and badge number?

Of course you don't. It's a black guy so he must be in the wrong automatically. You even thought he had prior run ins with the police cause you "misread".
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2009-07-21 06:02:50
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6912

AussieReaper wrote:

Think he may have been loud and tumultuous at the officer who refused to give him name and badge number?
Thats of course if you believe what he says.

A guy who cries racism at the first instance of police questioning loses a little credibility in my book.
2009-07-21 06:08:50
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6371|eXtreme to the maX

lowing wrote:

the cops refusal to bow to this guy is understandable. At that time, the cop was in control of the scene, not the suspect.
Maybe in your white supremacist Police state, not in the rest of the world.

The cop wasn't in control of anything, there was no crime, there was no scene - just a report of a possible crime.

If someone is in their own home they are due some respect from the Police, not the other way around.
Innocent until proven guilty, even if you're black.

It will be interesting to see what happens if and when lowing receives some heavy handed policing.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-07-21 06:10:20)

Fuck Israel
2009-07-21 06:13:19
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6846|SE London

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

It amazing how fast common sense goes out the door when it turns into a everyone vs. lowing thread.

All the mans gotta do when the cops ask him for his ID is give the cops his ID and that would be the end of it.

Second, if you look like you're trying to break into house, it doesn't matter what skin color you are. Get the fuck over it.
He did what he was supposed to do, the cops didn't. Then they arrested him for disorderly conduct in his own home - despite the fact you have to be in a public place (or someone elses privately owned premises) to be charged with disorderly conduct.

It's very clear cut and the cops were in the wrong. If he got a bit over excited, then fair enough, it's his house, he's allowed to.
You can be arrested for disorderly conduct in your own home. If you don't think so, try blasting music at 3 in the morning and refuse to turn it off.

And no, you can't just go apeshit with cops. If you refuse to cooperate, they can arrest you.
I have done. Many times. No police. Environmental health sometimes - who have the power to confiscate audio equipment...

So giving them two different forms of ID is not cooperating? Alongside the fact that Gates had breathing difficulties and could not physically have been screaming and yelling at the cops as they claim and the other guy with Gates denies. They refused to give their badge number to him, they aren't allowed to withold that information - it's just like refusal to show ID to the police, there is no difference. The difference here is that Gates did produce ID, the police didn't provide their badge numbers.
2009-07-21 06:15:43
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6846|SE London

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Think he may have been loud and tumultuous at the officer who refused to give him name and badge number?
Thats of course if you believe what he says.

A guy who cries racism at the first instance of police questioning loses a little credibility in my book.


What a retarded post. Anyone who complains of racism has no credibility?

You sir, have lost all credibility.
2009-07-21 06:22:55
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6912

Bertster7 wrote:

I have done. Many times. No police. Environmental health sometimes - who have the power to confiscate audio equipment...

So giving them two different forms of ID is not cooperating? Alongside the fact that Gates had breathing difficulties and could not physically have been screaming and yelling at the cops as they claim and the other guy with Gates denies. They refused to give their badge number to him, they aren't allowed to withold that information - it's just like refusal to show ID to the police, there is no difference. The difference here is that Gates did produce ID, the police didn't provide their badge numbers.
Well you must have tolerant neighbors/ don't live in an apartment.

If and when he did eventually show the officers his ID he could have been uncooperative for other reasons. Usually that should be the end of it but we aren't told what happened after that. I've had misunderstandings with the police. You don't get arrested for cooperating with them. I can only imagine what would have happened if I had been unruly that time when an officer thought I was peeping on my neighbor.
2009-07-21 06:26:59
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6912

Bertster7 wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Think he may have been loud and tumultuous at the officer who refused to give him name and badge number?
Thats of course if you believe what he says.

A guy who cries racism at the first instance of police questioning loses a little credibility in my book.


What a retarded post. Anyone who complains of racism has no credibility?

You sir, have lost all credibility.
No, its the fact that what he was accused of doing, breaking an entering, is not in regards to his race. He was trying to open a door in a manner that looked like breaking and entering. It doesn't matter what his race is in that regards. The fact that he immediately "went there" implies he has some kind of chip on his shoulders.

You guys are doing some awfully selective reading today.
2009-07-21 06:53:29
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6846|SE London

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

I have done. Many times. No police. Environmental health sometimes - who have the power to confiscate audio equipment...

So giving them two different forms of ID is not cooperating? Alongside the fact that Gates had breathing difficulties and could not physically have been screaming and yelling at the cops as they claim and the other guy with Gates denies. They refused to give their badge number to him, they aren't allowed to withold that information - it's just like refusal to show ID to the police, there is no difference. The difference here is that Gates did produce ID, the police didn't provide their badge numbers.
Well you must have tolerant neighbors/ don't live in an apartment.

If and when he did eventually show the officers his ID he could have been uncooperative for other reasons. Usually that should be the end of it but we aren't told what happened after that. I've had misunderstandings with the police. You don't get arrested for cooperating with them. I can only imagine what would have happened if I had been unruly that time when an officer thought I was peeping on my neighbor.
I live in a Victorian terraced house.

What do you mean "if"? It's in the police report, they don't deny it. He proved he was not commiting a crime by proving his identity. That should've been the end of the matter. There was nothing further to investigate. There is no other way he should have been required to cooperate. That's the end of the matter, he has proven that he has a right to be there.

They didn't provide him with their badge numbers when requested, over here that is certainly something pretty serious.

Your whole opinion very much seems to be based on the fact you've had dealings with the police in the past that have gone smoothly (otherwise why are you bringing up examples like that). That's a stupid thing to base your opinion of all police in all situations on, particularly since I assume you are not black and wouldn't ever have experienced police racism, something that whilst often overblown has been shown to be pretty much endemic.

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

You guys are doing some awfully selective reading today.
It's not selective reading. It's a direct response to exactly what you wrote. If that's not what you mean you should learn to express yourself a bit better.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-07-21 06:57:54)

2009-07-21 07:06:52
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6916|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

the cops refusal to bow to this guy is understandable. At that time, the cop was in control of the scene, not the suspect.
Maybe in your white supremacist Police state, not in the rest of the world.

The cop wasn't in control of anything, there was no crime, there was no scene - just a report of a possible crime.

If someone is in their own home they are due some respect from the Police, not the other way around.
Innocent until proven guilty, even if you're black.

It will be interesting to see what happens if and when lowing receives some heavy handed policing.
Yup there was a scene, and it was yet to be determained by the cop what the hell was going on. He was trying to find out and the home owner was being delibersatly difficult to say the least.

Honestly, do you really really believe your own bullshit, or are you just trying to argue?



Also, I will play the odds and say I will never be a victim of heavy handed policing.

If for no other reason,I am respectful to them, recognizing that they have a difficult job to do.

Sorry, your home or not, you are due the same respect you show.
2009-07-21 07:11:02
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6916|USA

Bertster7 wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:


He did what he was supposed to do, the cops didn't. Then they arrested him for disorderly conduct in his own home - despite the fact you have to be in a public place (or someone elses privately owned premises) to be charged with disorderly conduct.

It's very clear cut and the cops were in the wrong. If he got a bit over excited, then fair enough, it's his house, he's allowed to.
You can be arrested for disorderly conduct in your own home. If you don't think so, try blasting music at 3 in the morning and refuse to turn it off.

And no, you can't just go apeshit with cops. If you refuse to cooperate, they can arrest you.
I have done. Many times. No police. Environmental health sometimes - who have the power to confiscate audio equipment...

So giving them two different forms of ID is not cooperating? Alongside the fact that Gates had breathing difficulties and could not physically have been screaming and yelling at the cops as they claim and the other guy with Gates denies. They refused to give their badge number to him, they aren't allowed to withold that information - it's just like refusal to show ID to the police, there is no difference. The difference here is that Gates did produce ID, the police didn't provide their badge numbers.
Why do you continue to ignore the fact that the guy refused to show ID initially?  It is like a high speed chase, if you pull over as soon as they turn on the sirens, you will have no problem, if you do it after a 100 mile an hour chase through a nieghborhood, you have just bought some problems.

and again,during an investigation it is the cop thatis running the show, not the suspect.
2009-07-21 07:17:50
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6846|SE London

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:


You can be arrested for disorderly conduct in your own home. If you don't think so, try blasting music at 3 in the morning and refuse to turn it off.

And no, you can't just go apeshit with cops. If you refuse to cooperate, they can arrest you.
I have done. Many times. No police. Environmental health sometimes - who have the power to confiscate audio equipment...

So giving them two different forms of ID is not cooperating? Alongside the fact that Gates had breathing difficulties and could not physically have been screaming and yelling at the cops as they claim and the other guy with Gates denies. They refused to give their badge number to him, they aren't allowed to withold that information - it's just like refusal to show ID to the police, there is no difference. The difference here is that Gates did produce ID, the police didn't provide their badge numbers.
Why do you continue to ignore the fact that the guy refused to show ID initially?  It is like a high speed chase, if you pull over as soon as they turn on the sirens, you will have no problem, if you do it after a 100 mile an hour chase through a nieghborhood, you have just bought some problems.

and again,during an investigation it is the cop thatis running the show, not the suspect.
In your own home, when you haven't commited a crime, that's simply not the case. It's you running the show unless they have a warrant.

If you prove your identity to them, you are well within your rights to then tell them to get off your property immediately. The moment his identity was established they had no business being there. He did show them ID, whether there was a delay or not does not impact his rights in his own home.
2009-07-21 07:30:52
steelie34
pub hero!
+603|6646|the land of bourbon
i agree with lowing here... the cops said the guy refused to show his ID, which is basically asking to be arrested.  gates says he gave two IDs... so i guess we have a cops word versus gates word situation.

i tend to believe cops in these situations because 1) most cops don't go looking to arrest people.  they have to do paperwork and it's a pain, and 2) this gates guy has everything to gain from making a scene out of this.  since obama, alot of these organizations that claim to fight against racism are becoming irrelevant.  these guys desperately need these "racist" actions to keep themselves employed.  think about it... is the NAACP really necessary anymore?   

it's sorta like norton anti-virus company writing viruses behind the scenes to keep themselves employed.  just my two cents.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/36e1d9e36ae924048a933db90fb05bb247fe315e.png
2009-07-21 07:34:14
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6418|what

steelie34 wrote:

i agree with lowing here... the cops said the guy refused to show his ID, which is basically asking to be arrested.  gates says he gave two IDs... so i guess we have a cops word versus gates word situation.
No, we don't have two versions, police say he gave ID also.

Gates — the director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research — initially refused to show the officer his identification, but then gave him a Harvard University ID card, according to police.
Does nobody read these articles anymore?
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2009-07-21 07:35:10
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6846|SE London

steelie34 wrote:

i agree with lowing here... the cops said the guy refused to show his ID, which is basically asking to be arrested.  gates says he gave two IDs... so i guess we have a cops word versus gates word situation.
No we don't.

Gates — the director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research — initially refused to show the officer his identification, but then gave him a Harvard University ID card, according to police.
2009-07-21 07:37:39
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6418|what

steelie34 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

steelie34 wrote:

i agree with lowing here... the cops said the guy refused to show his ID, which is basically asking to be arrested.  gates says he gave two IDs... so i guess we have a cops word versus gates word situation.
No, we don't have two versions, police say he gave ID also.

Gates — the director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research — initially refused to show the officer his identification, but then gave him a Harvard University ID card, according to police.
Does nobody read these articles anymore?
the article i read said gates initially refused to show them any ID, but then relented AFTER being arrested.  there is a simple lesson here: listen to the cops, and you won't get arrested.
Link to that article?
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2009-07-21 07:42:44
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6846|SE London

steelie34 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

steelie34 wrote:

i agree with lowing here... the cops said the guy refused to show his ID, which is basically asking to be arrested.  gates says he gave two IDs... so i guess we have a cops word versus gates word situation.
No, we don't have two versions, police say he gave ID also.

Gates — the director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research — initially refused to show the officer his identification, but then gave him a Harvard University ID card, according to police.
Does nobody read these articles anymore?
the article i read said gates initially refused to show them any ID, but then relented AFTER being arrested.  there is a simple lesson here: listen to the cops, and you won't get arrested.
Not what any of the articles I've read say.

They say he was arrested after showing them ID. He showed the officer the ID in the house, then continued yelling at him and followed him outside - where he was arrested (so actually, he wasn't in his home being charged with disorderly conduct - which is something I was confused about earlier).

Boston Globe wrote:

Friends of Gates said he was already in his home when police arrived. He showed his driver’s license and Harvard identification card, but was handcuffed and taken into police custody for several hours last Thursday, they said.

The police report said Gates was arrested after he yelled at the investigating officer repeatedly inside the residence then followed the officer outside, where Gates continued to upbraid him. "It was at that time that I informed Professor Gates that he was under arrest,'' the officer wrote in the report.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-07-21 07:44:43)

2009-07-21 07:44:01
steelie34
pub hero!
+603|6646|the land of bourbon
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/21/mas … cnn_latest

"" According to the report, officers responded to a call Thursday from a woman who said she saw "a man wedging his shoulder into the front door" at Gates' house near the university. The report, obtained by CNN affiliate WCVB-TV, indicates Gates refused to identify himself to a police officer, claiming the officer was a racist.

Sgt. James Crowley of the Cambridge Police Department stated in the report that he told Gates he was investigating a report of a break-in at the residence. According to the report, Gates "opened the front door and exclaimed, 'Why, because I'm a black man in America?' "

Crowley wrote in the report that he warned Gates two times he was becoming disorderly. After Gates continued to yell and accuse him of racial bias, Crowley wrote he arrested Gates for "loud and tumultuous behavior in a public space.""

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … rss_nation

""Gates, 58, was arrested Thursday by police looking into a possible break-in for disorderly conduct "after exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior" at his home, according to the police report. Officers said they tried to calm down Gates, who responded, "You don't know who you're messing with," according to the police report.

Ogletree said Gates was ordered to step out of his home. He refused and was followed inside by a police officer. After showing the officer his driver's license, which includes his address, Ogletree said Gates asked: "Why are you doing this? Is it because I'm a black man and you're a white officer? I don't understand why you don't believe this is my house." Ogletree said Gates was then arrested and charged with disorderly conduct and racial harassment. ""

telling the cops "you dont know who you're messing with" is a great way to get arrested!  and just because he was in his home doesn't mean he can't be arrested for disorderly conduct.  if i'm blasting my stereo and then refuse to open the door when the cops show up, i will get arrested.

http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/new … p;ei=UTF-8

as far as i can tell, he didn't cooperate until after he was arrested.  if you dont listen to the cops, you get arrested if you're white, black, purple, whatever.

Last edited by steelie34 (2009-07-21 07:46:44)

https://bf3s.com/sigs/36e1d9e36ae924048a933db90fb05bb247fe315e.png
2009-07-21 07:49:37
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6846|SE London

steelie34 wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/21/massachusetts.harvard.professor.arrested/index.html?section=cnn_latest

"" According to the report, officers responded to a call Thursday from a woman who said she saw "a man wedging his shoulder into the front door" at Gates' house near the university. The report, obtained by CNN affiliate WCVB-TV, indicates Gates refused to identify himself to a police officer, claiming the officer was a racist.

Sgt. James Crowley of the Cambridge Police Department stated in the report that he told Gates he was investigating a report of a break-in at the residence. According to the report, Gates "opened the front door and exclaimed, 'Why, because I'm a black man in America?' "

Crowley wrote in the report that he warned Gates two times he was becoming disorderly. After Gates continued to yell and accuse him of racial bias, Crowley wrote he arrested Gates for "loud and tumultuous behavior in a public space.""

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … rss_nation

""Gates, 58, was arrested Thursday by police looking into a possible break-in for disorderly conduct "after exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior" at his home, according to the police report. Officers said they tried to calm down Gates, who responded, "You don't know who you're messing with," according to the police report.

Ogletree said Gates was ordered to step out of his home. He refused and was followed inside by a police officer. After showing the officer his driver's license, which includes his address, Ogletree said Gates asked: "Why are you doing this? Is it because I'm a black man and you're a white officer? I don't understand why you don't believe this is my house." Ogletree said Gates was then arrested and charged with disorderly conduct and racial harassment. ""

telling the cops "you dont know who you're messing with" is a great way to get arrested!

http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/new … p;ei=UTF-8

as far as i can tell, he didn't cooperate until after he was arrested.  if you dont listen to the cops, you get arrested if you're white, black, purple, whatever.
So you don't actually have anything that suggests he didn't show ID till after he was arrested?

None of those quotes demonstrate anything other than there being a delay in him showing ID. The police report tells a different story....

*edit* looks like they've taken down the police report now.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-07-21 08:03:14)

2009-07-21 07:58:09
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6418|what

steelie34 wrote:

telling the cops "you dont know who you're messing with" is a great way to get arrested!  and just because he was in his home doesn't mean he can't be arrested for disorderly conduct.
The police weren't investigating someone for disorderly conduct, they were investigation a break and enter. After finding out it was Gates' home they should have dropped the matter.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2009-07-21 07:59:52
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6846|SE London

AussieReaper wrote:

steelie34 wrote:

telling the cops "you dont know who you're messing with" is a great way to get arrested!  and just because he was in his home doesn't mean he can't be arrested for disorderly conduct.
The police weren't investigating someone for disorderly conduct, they were investigation a break and enter. After finding out it was Gates' home they should have dropped the matter.
What I expect happened is that they took it personally and tried to find any excuse to arrest him - which is why they waited for him to follow them outside to arrest him, despite the situation having been resolved by that point.

 

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