In before tougher gun laws ; Shootout in NJ 5 cops shot.

2009-07-16 15:56:58

#1

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5874

Five police officers were shot -- two of them critically wounded -- in a running gunfight Thursday morning during a police stakeout of two armed robbery suspects in New Jersey's second-largest city.

Both suspects were killed in the shootout, which began on the street about 5 a.m. and ended a few hours later when SWAT officers fought their way into an apartment where the man and woman had taken cover. The assaulting officers were met by shotgun blasts that ripped through the apartment building's walls and doors.

One of the suspects had "some kind of automatic shotgun," Mayor Jerramiah Healy said. Residents of the complex said they awoke to the sounds of gunfire and police running down their halls.

In NJ you already have to be 21 to own a handgun and 18 or 19, I forget which, to own a rifle.
So does this prove that NJ needs tougher gun laws or does this prove tough Gun laws don't work.

2009-07-16 16:12:33

#2

Lotta_Drool: Spit; +350|6472|Ireland

They should outlaw shooting cops and robbing banks.

2009-07-16 16:17:46

#3

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6818|Global Command

Maybe there would be less armed robberies if the criminals in D.C. hadn't ruined the economy?

Expect the amount of violent crime to sky rocket as the economy tanks.

2009-07-16 21:46:49

#4

nickb64: formerly from OC (it's EXACTLY like on tv)[truth]; +77|5900|Greatest Nation on Earth(USA)

nickb64 wrote:
Study by John Lott/David Mustard of University of Chicago(1997 Journal of Legal Studies) studied impact of Right to Carry Concealed Handgun Laws on Crime rate between 1977 and 1992: Reduced murder 8.5%, reduced rape 5%, and reduced severe assaults 7%. During that time, if right to carry had been common in US, there would have been 1,600 less murders, 4,200 less rapes, and 60,000 less severe assaults.

Vermont 1980(most freedom to carry concealed weapons): murder rate: 22% of National Avg., robbery rate: 15% of National Avg.

Trained Concealed Carry Permit Holders shoot innocents in error 1/3 as many times as Police annually.

Effect of "Shall Issue" Concealed Handgun laws in US: multi-victim public shootings down 84%, death in said shootings down 90%, injury in said shootings down 82%

Dade County, Florida created a tracking system to track the frequency of crimes committed by their 21,000 Concealed Weapon Permit Holders in 1987, between then and 1992, 4 crimes were committed by permit holders, none involving injuries, no innocents were harmed by a permit holder. The program was abandoned in 1992 because there were too few crimes to render it useful. The entire state of Florida recorded a total of 18 crimes by permit holders between 1987 and 1994. As of 1998, there was one incident when a permit holder shot someone after a traffic accident, but the shooter was determined to be acting is self defense. As of 1998, no permit holder had shot a police officer, while there were several cases of permit holders saving the life of an officer.

The Supreme Court and various lower courts have held that "police are not obligated to protect individuals from crime".

I can email all sources to anyone who wishes to dispute this information. (I did a research paper on the topic of Gun Control)

*I posted this once twice before

We need more responsible people with guns, not less.

2009-07-16 22:09:44

#5

RAIMIUS: You with the face!; +244|7003|US

I'd be VERY surprised if there were an auto-shotgun involved. They usually go for $10,000+ and require extensive BATFE checks and the signature of the local chief law enforcement officer...

Any gun in the hands of a bad person is a bad thing.
Any gun in the hands of a responsible citizen is no threat to anyone, except bad people.
(to paraphrase Charleton Heston)

2009-07-16 22:17:00

#6

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6442|what

RAIMIUS wrote:
Any gun in the hands of a bad person is a bad thing.
Any gun in the hands of a responsible citizen is no threat to anyone, except bad people.
(to paraphrase Charleton Heston)

Yeah and everybody is born good or bad and never change, ever.

2009-07-16 22:27:44

#7

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6890|132 and Bush

Can we Ban NJ?

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2009-07-16 22:30:53

#8

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5874

Kmarion wrote:
Can we Ban NJ?

Yes, without condoning or condemning, I understand.

2009-07-16 22:33:38

#9

S3v3N: lolwut?; +685|6807|Montucky

hmmm..

Cop beats a black kid.. ZOMG moral outrage!

Cops die at the hands of criminals.. ZOMG Ban Guns.. Tougher Gun Laws.

You people fucking amaze me.

2009-07-16 22:37:40

#10

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5874

S3v3N wrote:
hmmm..

Cop beats a black kid.. ZOMG moral outrage!

Cops die at the hands of criminals.. ZOMG Ban Guns.. Tougher Gun Laws.

You people fucking amaze me.

I meant the title as "NJ is gonna freak out and make guns harder to get", I still want to buy a gun, still horribly confused as to the process.

2009-07-16 22:43:34

#11

Flecco: iPod is broken.; +1,048|6954|NT, like Mick Dundee

S3v3N wrote:
hmmm..

Cop beats a black kid.. ZOMG moral outrage!

Cops die at the hands of criminals.. ZOMG Ban Guns.. Tougher Gun Laws.

You people fucking amaze me.

Huh?

Despite my sarcastic reply to Reaper's post, I am quite disgusted that people shoot police at all.

I mean for fucks sake the guys are just regular joes who rock up expecting another shitty day at work, in a job already hard enough by any standards, and people take pot-shots at them?

Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.

2009-07-16 22:43:42

#12

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6890|132 and Bush

"Go to your local Sheriff's Office. They will have all the info you need.

You are required to have to Firearms owner ID card to own firearms and you are required to obtain a firearms purchase permit (which is good for only a short time) to purchase a firearm, air-soft, bb/pellet gun or crossbow (not sure if one is needed for long or compound bows).

If you wish to seek a carry permit, you'll have a better chance winning the Powerball AND Mega-millions on the same day.

PS - You need to be WELL informed of the laws there in Jersey. One hollow point bullet found with you and thats five years. I guess they would rather have the bullets go through things running the risk of injuring or killing others in the process."

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2009-07-16 23:35:59

#13

Catbox: forgiveness; +505|7005

ATG wrote:
Maybe there would be less armed robberies if the criminals in D.C. hadn't ruined the economy?

Expect the amount of violent crime to sky rocket as the economy tanks.

I was thinking the same thing today... as things get worse people will do desperate things...
my only wish is that they shoot themselves first and don't take anyone else with them.

Love is the answer

2009-07-16 23:51:15

#14

Reciprocity: Member; +721|6869|the dank(super) side of Oregon

RAIMIUS wrote:
I'd be VERY surprised if there were an auto-shotgun involved. They usually go for $10,000+ and require extensive BATFE checks and the signature of the local chief law enforcement officer...

It was probably some semi-auto duck gun or maybe a Saiga.

Last edited by Reciprocity (2009-07-17 19:10:04)

2009-07-17 01:02:42

#15

Flecco: iPod is broken.; +1,048|6954|NT, like Mick Dundee

wat

My post directed at Reaper got deleted? He knows its a joke....

Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.

2009-07-17 01:12:03

#16

PureFodder: Member; +225|6574

There's no point in NJ changing it's gun laws as almost all the guns used in crimes there come from other states which have lax gun laws.

2009-07-17 01:40:48

#17

-CARNIFEX-[LOC]: Da Blooze; +111|6942

I hate how stuff like this gets sensationalized to make it seem like we're back to the days of Dillinger, where hoodlums rode around killing any Feds in their way with military-grade firepower. I think our police need to be better-armed and better-trained, but on that same note I don't think taking everyone's guns away (or even highly restricting access) is the answer.

Restrict violent criminals and the mentally unstable if you will, but someone, somewhere, is still going to kill someone with a gun no matter how much you try to restrict the rest of society. And while you can try to remove peoples' guns, the urge to kill has been a constant of the human equation for as long as we've been around, and we'll find ways to do it regardless of what tools you give us. Some of the boom-towns of the old West made modern-day East St. Louis and Detroit look like kids playgrounds when you consider murder rates vs. overall population, and that was with single-action revolvers, breach loading shotguns and the like.

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/12516/Bitch%20Hunter%20Sig.jpg

2009-07-17 01:46:40

#18

krazed: Admiral of the Bathtub; +619|7069|Great Brown North

PureFodder wrote:
There's no point in NJ changing it's gun laws as almost all the guns used in crimes there come from other states which have lax gun laws.

or were illegally obtained in the first place

Last edited by krazed (2009-07-17 01:48:04)

2009-07-17 04:49:27

#19

Burwhale: Save the BlobFish!; +136|6511|Brisneyland

Look, the US has no interest in changing anything in relation to guns. So expect more of the same.
I keep hearing that " taking guns away is taking away our freedom". Nothing takes away your freedom like some idiot killing you.
Still, by all means continue on this path. (By the way I dont support banning all guns, I do support strict legislation on guns).

2009-07-17 07:37:21

#20

SEREMAKER: BABYMAKIN EXPERT √; +2,187|6857|Mountains of NC

if and thats a big if, if that asshole had a streetsweeper then gun laws don't matter -- it almost impossible to get hands on with one of those

but hey guess what - if the bad wants a gun .... they will get their hands on one, no matter what

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg

2009-07-17 07:37:53

#21

13rin: Member; +977|6768

Kmarion wrote:
"Go to your local Sheriff's Office. They will have all the info you need.

You are required to have to Firearms owner ID card to own firearms and you are required to obtain a firearms purchase permit (which is good for only a short time) to purchase a firearm, air-soft, bb/pellet gun or crossbow (not sure if one is needed for long or compound bows).

If you wish to seek a carry permit, you'll have a better chance winning the Powerball AND Mega-millions on the same day.

PS - You need to be WELL informed of the laws there in Jersey. One hollow point bullet found with you and thats five years. I guess they would rather have the bullets go through things running the risk of injuring or killing others in the process."

Jersey's gun laws are absurd and retarted. I feel sorry for those that have to jump through all those unconstitutional hurdles.

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.

2009-07-17 20:31:04

#22

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6694|North Carolina

Macbeth wrote:
In NJ you already have to be 21 to own a handgun and 18 or 19, I forget which, to own a rifle.
So does this prove that NJ needs tougher gun laws or does this prove tough Gun laws don't work.

It proves that Jersey City is fucking scary.

2009-07-17 20:56:46

#23

Narupug: Fodder Mostly; +150|5885|Vacationland

This reminds me of a joke
You know why people in New York are depressed?
Because the light at the end of the tunnel is New Jersey.
(sorry if that's off topic)
Anyway, I think any gun that can't be used, or is unneccessary, to hunt should be banned. I mean what's the point of some of these semi automatics? You want to own one so you can fire it? That's all fine but how would it make you feel if someone stole your guns and went to a school and started killing people? Just because you want to have fun firing a weapon that is capable of killing dozens of people in a short amount of time, doesn't mean you have to right to own it.

2009-07-17 22:21:03

#24

nickb64: formerly from OC (it's EXACTLY like on tv)[truth]; +77|5900|Greatest Nation on Earth(USA)

Narupug wrote:
This reminds me of a joke
You know why people in New York are depressed?
Because the light at the end of the tunnel is New Jersey.
(sorry if that's off topic)
Anyway, I think any gun that can't be used, or is unneccessary, to hunt should be banned. I mean what's the point of some of these semi automatics? You want to own one so you can fire it? That's all fine but how would it make you feel if someone stole your guns and went to a school and started killing people? Just because you want to have fun firing a weapon that is capable of killing dozens of people in a short amount of time, doesn't mean you have to right to own it.

There's this thing:

US Constitution wrote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Banning guns for law abiding citizens will not keep the criminals from obtaining them.

http://www.fightthebias.com/Quotes/arms_quotes.htm

2009-07-18 00:04:46

#25

RAIMIUS: You with the face!; +244|7003|US

The US doesn't have the right to keep and bear arms for hunting. Think about it for a second. Why would a bunch of revolutionaries want to make sure people had access to firearms?...

...but to throw more wrenches in your argument...
Almost every gun can be used to hunt.
Many semi-auto shotguns are specifically designed to be used for hunting.

What if someone stole my guns and shot up a school? Are you kidding me?
Someone could also steal my car and run over people, but that doesn't really concern me very much. I lock my car and my firearms. If someone figures out where my firearms are, breaks through the multiple locks on them, then uses them for crime...well, that sucks for the victims (including me)...but it's not my fault.

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2009-07-18 00:08:22)

BF2S Forums In before tougher gun laws ; Shootout in NJ 5 cops shot.

nickb64 wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

S3v3N wrote:

S3v3N wrote:

ATG wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Narupug wrote:

US Constitution wrote:

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