It's hard to argue a prison featuring such amenities is really denying people access to society.mikkel wrote:
Prison sentences exist to deny people access to society for a given amount of time.
I think I see the point of this prison.
I imagine that it is mostly for non-violent crimes. I can see why putting a prisoner in a less threatening environment would be good for rehabilitation. It would make the prisoner more open to counseling and psychiatric help than a prison where the inmate has to watch his back the entire time and worry about the prison gang.
Ben Franklin said you can judge a land based on its prisons and laws. I'm sorry, but the US has a fucked up prison system that in many cases does not work. So many people that go in come right back out and are back behind bars in less than a year. Why? Because they are not being rehabilitated. Obviously, you have individuals who are so messed up and have done horrible crimes that there really is no going back (Fritzl, for instance) and they do need to be locked in the deepest, darkest hole. There are, however, many people in prisons around the world who, with a little bit of help and education can be turned into productive members of society.
But usmarine, you cannot really be bitching about this prison and saying the US system works, because the US system is even more hypocritical. There are private prisons in the US where you can go that are even better than this place. Basically if you can pay to support yourself in prison, you can get to choose which prison you go to. Just look up celebrity prisons and the like. They're resorts, not prisons.
I imagine that it is mostly for non-violent crimes. I can see why putting a prisoner in a less threatening environment would be good for rehabilitation. It would make the prisoner more open to counseling and psychiatric help than a prison where the inmate has to watch his back the entire time and worry about the prison gang.
Ben Franklin said you can judge a land based on its prisons and laws. I'm sorry, but the US has a fucked up prison system that in many cases does not work. So many people that go in come right back out and are back behind bars in less than a year. Why? Because they are not being rehabilitated. Obviously, you have individuals who are so messed up and have done horrible crimes that there really is no going back (Fritzl, for instance) and they do need to be locked in the deepest, darkest hole. There are, however, many people in prisons around the world who, with a little bit of help and education can be turned into productive members of society.
But usmarine, you cannot really be bitching about this prison and saying the US system works, because the US system is even more hypocritical. There are private prisons in the US where you can go that are even better than this place. Basically if you can pay to support yourself in prison, you can get to choose which prison you go to. Just look up celebrity prisons and the like. They're resorts, not prisons.
But usmarine, people are also products of their environments in many cases. There are, obviously, exceptions. You said you grew up in a bad neighborhood, yea? What about your home life? Bet it was better than most of your neighbors. Grow up in a dysfunctional neighborhood AND a dysfunctional home, and I'd like to see how normal you turn out.
Best example: Look a Michael Jackson. Product of his environment, 100%.
Best example: Look a Michael Jackson. Product of his environment, 100%.
I don't really think you said anything there to disprove Gawwad's claim.usmarine wrote:
ghetto? i grew up in a shithole part of cleveland..never been in jail. northern states? well the whole mid section of this country from texas to north dakota voted repub. not a shock the crook bankers and rich crooked ceo's live in the NE and Cali voted dem.
Well, if they wanted to go interact with society, they'd be promptly stopped by walls, steel bars and armed guards. I don't see how it's difficult to argue that they're being kept away from society.nukchebi0 wrote:
It's hard to argue a prison featuring such amenities is really denying people access to society.mikkel wrote:
Prison sentences exist to deny people access to society for a given amount of time.
Last edited by mikkel (2009-07-12 02:18:43)
It's not as if they aren't talking to other prisoners. Between that and the fact their accommodations are superior to those of many families, it seems untenable to claim they are anything more theoretically separate from society.mikkel wrote:
Well, if they wanted to go interact with society, they'd be promptly stopped by walls, steel bars and armed guards. I don't see how it's difficult to argue that they're being kept away from society.
It seems to me you suggest the mental separation from society, that they don't feel any different on the inside then they do on the outside. I disagree; prison is still prison whether you have a couch or not. You lose your entire life; friends, family, occupation, recreation and any sense of normality. On top of that, you're thrown in with a rather nasty bunch. That is separated from the society that the prison is designed to separate these folks from no matter how you look at it.nukchebi0 wrote:
It's not as if they aren't talking to other prisoners. Between that and the fact their accommodations are superior to those of many families, it seems untenable to claim they are anything more theoretically separate from society.mikkel wrote:
Well, if they wanted to go interact with society, they'd be promptly stopped by walls, steel bars and armed guards. I don't see how it's difficult to argue that they're being kept away from society.
I might as well try and kill someone in Austria to get in that prison. Looks nicer than my house.
If being able to talk to other prisoners qualifies as being part of society, then all but the most isolated prisoners everywhere are part of society. Being kept away from society with other people does not make you part of society. As for the argument of superior accommodation, I think you'd soon find that having even the smallest, most run-down apartment in a bad part of town beats being confined to the same few rooms for years upon years.nukchebi0 wrote:
It's not as if they aren't talking to other prisoners. Between that and the fact their accommodations are superior to those of many families, it seems untenable to claim they are anything more theoretically separate from society.mikkel wrote:
Well, if they wanted to go interact with society, they'd be promptly stopped by walls, steel bars and armed guards. I don't see how it's difficult to argue that they're being kept away from society.
Father helps son's Murderusmarine wrote:
really? would you be saying that if Josef Fritzls victim was your family member?mikkel wrote:
Thankfully, they're not.usmarine wrote:
thats exactly what they should be for
Prison should be
1. Punishment
2. Protecting society
3. Rehabilitation - if appropriate
Very few seem to do much of the above these days.
1. Punishment
2. Protecting society
3. Rehabilitation - if appropriate
Very few seem to do much of the above these days.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
? k. who cares about that?DrunkFace wrote:
Father helps son's Murderusmarine wrote:
really? would you be saying that if Josef Fritzls victim was your family member?mikkel wrote:
Thankfully, they're not.
says youmikkel wrote:
I don't really think you said anything there to disprove Gawwad's claim.
"four brothers" is my kind of justice anyway
lol you said justice
I know fucking karate
thats all great but how is the man on man sex?
got damn!!!! , looks better than some of our 5 star hotels here in the U.S.
I bet homeless people go commit crimes to be in that place. That's better than no home, in fact that is better then some homes.
Is there an application fee? Where can I enroll?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
no no no....you have not been wronged by society yet. move to the ghetto first.Kmarion wrote:
Is there an application fee? Where can I enroll?
Do they have AC?usmarine wrote:
no no no....you have not been wronged by society yet. move to the ghetto first.Kmarion wrote:
Is there an application fee? Where can I enroll?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
lawl......only if you want to repent your criminal lifestyle and save the world.
Astute observation. I put forth many examples, and you retorted with absolutely nothing disproving them.usmarine wrote:
says youmikkel wrote:
I don't really think you said anything there to disprove Gawwad's claim.
You really think that didn't cross their mind when they designed the prison?Bradt3hleader wrote:
I bet homeless people go commit crimes to be in that place. That's better than no home, in fact that is better then some homes.
nibiru2012 wrote:
got damn!!!! , looks better than some of our 5 star hotels here in the U.S.
I take the 4 star please
Last edited by Gawwad (2009-07-13 00:17:51)
Intentionally encouraging crime to promote social welfare?Gawwad wrote:
You really think that didn't cross their mind when they designed the prison?Bradt3hleader wrote:
I bet homeless people go commit crimes to be in that place. That's better than no home, in fact that is better then some homes.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
By that logic all prisoners held anywhere (in line with the UDHR) are still a part of society.nukchebi0 wrote:
It's not as if they aren't talking to other prisoners. Between that and the fact their accommodations are superior to those of many families, it seems untenable to claim they are anything more theoretically separate from society.mikkel wrote:
Well, if they wanted to go interact with society, they'd be promptly stopped by walls, steel bars and armed guards. I don't see how it's difficult to argue that they're being kept away from society.