Thanks m8. Nice to know you care.ATG wrote:
no other country has made an effort.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
no you're in denial, all of your hero democrats was in favor of kicking Saddam's ass and voted for it. the UN thought Saddam was a threat but due to BS politics refused to act on their many threats given to Saddam.Bertster7 wrote:
Of course they did. That's why there were enormous protests across the world with big banners saying just that, right before the invasion.usmarine wrote:
lol what a joke. you are nuts sometimes erm most of the time. no real people thought that.JahManRed wrote:
Its what people with half a brain and no imperial aspirations knew before the invasion.
You're just in denial.
Bush had overwhelming approval ratings in 2003.
"President Bush is ending his third year in office with 63% job approval, the highest rating of any president since Lyndon Johnson, who finished 1963 with a 74% rating a month after John F. Kennedy's assassination."
taken from
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicsel … ings_x.htm
looks as if your memory is about a reliable as a "transparent" Obama administration
Why is this anything to do with the Democrats?lowing wrote:
no you're in denial, all of your hero democrats was in favor of kicking Saddam's ass and voted for it. the UN thought Saddam was a threat but due to BS politics refused to act on their many threats given to Saddam.Bertster7 wrote:
Of course they did. That's why there were enormous protests across the world with big banners saying just that, right before the invasion.usmarine wrote:
lol what a joke. you are nuts sometimes erm most of the time. no real people thought that.
You're just in denial.
Bush had overwhelming approval ratings in 2003.
"President Bush is ending his third year in office with 63% job approval, the highest rating of any president since Lyndon Johnson, who finished 1963 with a 74% rating a month after John F. Kennedy's assassination."
taken from
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicsel … ings_x.htm
looks as if your memory is about a reliable as a "transparent" Obama administration
I don't give two hoots what the Democrat position was on this. I place the blame with the British and American governments, not any specific party. I think the way the Bush administration mishandled and manipulated intelligence was extremely circumspect and the British governments (and by that I really mean the cabinet - except those who resigned over it) involvement in the intelligence was hardly any better.
You may say the UN thought Saddam was a threat, but the UN have consistently said differently. Their investigators refuted Powell's claims in the buildup to war, both Hans Blix and Mohammed ElBaradei (head of the IAEA) said he was wrong. The secretary general always said he did not believe Saddam had WMDs. As for the security council members, they were split thusly:
US and UK - Believed he had them, or at least told everyone they believed he had them. Though UK intelligence services were actually quite forthright about the fact they didn't believe Saddam to have any ties to Al Qaeda, contradicting the government line.
France - Believed Saddam had a non-functional programme that was frozen due to the presence of inspectors and not viable for use. Openly stated they thought US intelligence was wrong at a UN meeting.
Germany - Same as France.
China - Same as France.
Russia - Said their was no evidence for war "Russia deems that there is no evidence that would justify a war in Iraq". They later said he needed to cooperate more with inspectors - but have never claimed they believed he had WMDs and stated several times they believed he did not.
Spain - Supported US and UK.
Bulgaria - Supported US and UK.
Pretty much every other country (with the exception of Syria, who voted to immediately lift all sanctions) took the line France did, that it was unlikely he had functional WMDs and would be incapable of using them or further developing them with the inspectors there.
With things like the Manning memo and the Downing Street memo being leaked I don't see how anyone really bought the whole WMD line of bullshit....
Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-07-04 05:46:11)
i lol at you using france and russia.
France, China and Russia all had much the same position. They make up more than half the permanent security council. What's so funny about their opinion?usmarine wrote:
i lol at you using france and russia.
considering iraq was a cash cow for france and russia, i lol.Bertster7 wrote:
France, China and Russia all had much the same position. They make up more than half the permanent security council. What's so funny about their opinion?usmarine wrote:
i lol at you using france and russia.
Iraq was a cash cow for France?usmarine wrote:
considering iraq was a cash cow for france and russia, i lol.Bertster7 wrote:
France, China and Russia all had much the same position. They make up more than half the permanent security council. What's so funny about their opinion?usmarine wrote:
i lol at you using france and russia.
Not really. The dealings between Paris and Baghdad left the French massively out of pocket. They had a lot of ties with Iraq, but didn't make much money off them. I wasn't aware Russia or China had substantial investments in Iraq.
In fact much of the stuff about France making loads of money from Iraq was just from some branches of the media in the backlash after France said they would veto any resolution that automatically led to war and publicly stated that the American intelligence on Iraq was wrong (which they were proven right about).
Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-07-04 06:04:13)
sigh...
France controls over 22.5 percent of Iraq's imports.[1] French total trade with Iraq under the oil-for-food program is the third largest, totaling $3.1 billion since 1996, according to the United Nations.[2]
In 2001 France became Iraq's largest European trading partner. Roughly 60 French companies did an estimated $1.5 billion in trade with Baghdad in 2001 under the U.N. oil-for-food program.[3]
France's largest oil company, Total Fina Elf, has negotiated extensive oil contracts to develop the Majnoon and Nahr Umar oil fields in southern Iraq. Both the Majnoon and Nahr Umar fields are estimated to contain as much as 25 percent of the country's oil reserves. The two fields purportedly contain an estimated 26 billion barrels of oil.[4] In 2002, the non-war price per barrel of oil was $25. Based on that average these two fields have the potential to provide a gross return near $650 billion.
France's Alcatel company, a major telecom firm, is negotiating a $76 million contract to rehabilitate Iraq's telephone system.[5]
In 2001 French carmaker Renault SA sold $75 million worth of farming equipment to Iraq.[6]
More objections have been lodged against French export contracts with Iraq than any other exporting country under the oil-for-food program, according to a report published by the London Times. In addition French companies have signed contracts with Iraq worth more than $150 million that are suspected of being linked to its military operations.[7] Some of the goods offered by French companies to Iraq, detailed by UN documents, include refrigerated trucks that can be used as storage facilities and mobile laboratories for biological weapons.
Iraq owes France an estimated $6 billion in foreign debt accrued from arms sales in the 1970s and '80s.[8]
From 1981 to 2001, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), France was responsible for over 13 percent of Iraq's arms imports.[9]
Germany
Direct trade between Germany and Iraq amounts to about $350 million annually, and another $1 billion is reportedly sold through third parties.[10]
It has recently been reported that Saddam Hussein has ordered Iraqi domestic businesses to show preference to German companies as a reward for Germany's "firm positive stand in rejecting the launching of a military attack against Iraq." It was also reported that over 101 German companies were present at the Baghdad Annual exposition.[11]
During the 35th Annual Baghdad International Fair in November 2002, a German company signed a contract for $80 million for 5,000 cars and spare parts.[12]
In 2002, DaimlerChrysler was awarded over $13 million in contracts for German trucks and spare parts.[13]
Germany is owed billions by Iraq in foreign debt generated during the 1980's.[14]
German officials are investigating a German corporation accused of illegally channeling weapons to Iraq via Jordan. The equipment in question is used for boring the barrels of large cannons and is allegedly intended for Saddam Hussein's Al Fao Supercannon project.[15] An article in the German daily Tageszeitung reported that of the more than 80 German companies that have done business with Baghdad since around 1975 and have continued to do so up until 2001, many have supplied whole systems or components for weapons of mass destruction.
Russia
Russia controls roughly 5.8 percent of Iraq's annual imports.[16] Under the U.N. oil-for-food program, Russia's total trade with Iraq was somewhere between $530 million and $1 billion for the six months ending in December of 2001.[17]
According to the Russian Ambassador to Iraq, Vladimir Titorenko, new contracts worth another $200 million under the U.N. oil-for-food program are to be signed over the next three months.[18]
Russia's LUKoil negotiated a $4 billion, 23-year contract in 1997 to rehabilitate the 15 billion-barrel West Qurna field in southern Iraq. Work on the oil field was expected to commence upon cancellation of U.N. sanctions on Iraq. The deal is currently on hold.[19]
In October 2001, Salvneft, a Russian–Belarus company, negotiated a $52 million service contract to drill at the Tuba field in Southern Iraq.[20]
In April 2001, Russia's Zaruezhneft and Tatneft companies received a service contract to drill in the Saddam, Kirkuk, and Bai Hassan fields to rehabilitate the fields and reduce water incursion. Together the deals were valued at $13.2 million.[21]
A future $40 billion Iraqi–Russian economic agreement, reportedly signed in 2002, would allow for extensive oil exploration opportunities throughout western Iraq.[22] The proposal calls for 67 new projects, over a 10-year time frame, to explore and further develop fields in southern Iraq and the Western Desert, including the Suba, Luhais, West Qurna, and Rumaila projects. Additional projects added to the deal include second-phase construction of a pipeline running from southern to northern Iraq, and extensive drilling and gas projects. Work on these projects would commence upon cancellation of sanctions.[23]
Russia's Gazprom Company over the past few years has signed contracts worth $18 million to repair gas stations in Iraq.[24]
The former Soviet Union was the premier supplier of Iraqi arms. From 1981 to 2001, Russia supplied Iraq with 50 percent of its arms.[25]
Soviet-era debt of $7 billion through $8 billion was generated by arms sales to Iraq during the 1980–1988 Iran–Iraq war.
Three Russian firms are suspected of selling electronic jamming equipment, antitank missiles and thousands of night-vision goggles to Iraq in violation of U.N. sanctions.[26] Two of the companies identified are Aviaconversiya and KBP Tula.
China
China controls roughly 5.8 percent of Iraq's annual imports.[27]
China National Oil Company, partnered with China North Industries Corp., negotiated a 22-year-long deal for future oil exploration in the Al Ahdab field in southern Iraq.[28]
In recent years, the Chinese Aero-Technology Import–Export Company (CATIC) has been contracted to sell "meteorological satellite" and "surface observation" equipment to Iraq. The U.N. oil-for-food program approved this contract.[29]
CATIC also won approval from the U.N. in July 2000 to sell $2 million worth of fiber optic cables. This and similar contracts approved were disguised as telecommunications gear. These cables can be used for secure data and communications links between national command and control centers and long-range search radar, targeting radar, and missile-launch units, according to U.S. officials. In addition, China National Electric Wire & Cable and China National Technical Import Telecommunications Equipment Company are believed to have sold Iraq $6 million and $15.5 million worth of communications equipment and other unspecified supplies, respectively.[30]
According to a report from SIPRI, from 1981 to 2001, China was the second largest supplier of weapons and arms to Iraq, supplying over 18 percent of Iraq's weapons imports.[31]
United States
The United States remains the largest importer of Iraqi oil under the UN Oil-for-Food program. However, U.S. companies can no longer deal directly with Iraq for its oil imports. U.S. companies are forced to deal with third party vendors as a result of a ban on all American companies imposed by Iraq. In 2002, the U.S. imported $3.5 billion worth of Iraqi oil.[32]
Iraq is the sixth largest supplier of oil to the United States. In 2002, imports from Iraq accounted for only 5 percent of total U.S. oil imports, dropping down from 8.5 percent in 2001. In addition, American oil companies have not signed a contract with Baghdad since 1972.
In 2002, the U.S. exported $31 million worth of goods to Iraq.[33] The exports consisted mostly of agricultural goods and machine parts. U.S. sales to Iraq dropped off after the Gulf War and resumed only on a limited scale in 1996 under the UN Oil-for-Food program.
According to the SIPRI arms transfers database, from 1981 to 2001, the United States was the 11th largest supplier of weapons and arms to Iraq, supplying approximately $200 million of Iraq's weapons imports. The top three suppliers, from 1981 to 2001, were Russia, China and France respectively.[34]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1]Central Intelligence Agency, The World Factbook 2002, at http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook.
[2]Jon Talton, "French Ideals and Profits in the Iraqi Triangle", The Arizona Republic, February 23, 2003.
[3]Jon Talton, "French Ideals and Profits in the Iraqi Triangle," The Arizona Republic, February 23, 2003.
[4]Kenneth Katzman, Iraq: Oil-for-Food Program, International Sanctions, and Illicit Trade, Congressional Research Service, September 26, 2002.
[5]Evelyn Iritani, "Hussein's Government Signs Lucrative Contracts, Especially with Nations that Oppose the U.S. Led Effort to Oust the Regime," The Los Angeles Times, November 11, 2002.
[6] David Gauthier-Villars and John Carreyrou, "France Hopes to Use Old Ties to Land Role in Rebuilding Iraq", The Wall Street Journal, March 26, 2003.
[7] Stephen Grey and Jon Ungoed-Thomas, "France's $150m Deals linked to Iraq Arms", Sunday Times-London, February 23, 2003.
[8] Faye Bowers, "Driving Forces in War-wary Nations: The Stances of France, Germany, Russia and China are colored by economic and national interests", Christian Science Monitor, February 25, 2003.
[9]Information from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), "Arms Transfers to Iraq, 1981–2001," at http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_ … -2001.pdf.
[10]David R. Sands, "France, Germany Protect Iraq Ties," The Washington Times, February 20, 2003.
[11]David R. Sands, "France, Germany Protect Iraq Ties," The Washington Times, February 20, 2003.
[12]"Africa Analysis—Trade Points Way to Peace", The Financial Times: Asia Africa Intelligence Wire, November 19, 2002.
[13]Faye Bowers, "Driving Forces in War-Wary Nations: The Stances of France, Germany, Russia and China Are Colored by Economic and National Interests," Christian Science Monitor, February 25, 2003.
[14] Faye Bowers, "Driving Forces in War-wary Nations: The Stances of France, Germany, Russia and China are colored by economic and national interests", Christian Science Monitor, February 25, 2003.
[15]"Helping Saddam Rearm," The Wall Street Journal, October 11, 2002.
[16]Central Intelligence Agency, The World Factbook 2002, at http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook.
[17]Testimony provided by Ariel Cohen to the House International Relations Committee, "Russia and the Axis of Evil: Money, Ambition and U.S. Interests," February 26, 2003.
[18]Nelli Sharushkina, "Russia Plays the Field in Iraq—Mixed Signals Worry Baghdad," Energy Intelligence Briefing, February 5, 2003.
[19]Dan Morgan and David B. Ottaway, "In Iraqi War Scenario, Oil Is Key Issue," The Washington Post, September 15, 2002.
[20]Dan Morgan and David B. Ottaway, "In Iraqi War Scenario, Oil Is Key Issue," The Washington Post, September 15, 2002.
[21] "Russia Angles to Protect Post-war Interests", Energy Comapss, March 21, 2003
[22]Scott Peterson, "Russia's Newest Tie to Iraq: Moscow Is Set to Sign a $40 billion Economic Pact with Baghdad Next Month," Christian Science Monitor, August 20, 2002.
[23]"Mideast Tensions to Delay Iraq Iraqi–Russian Signing," Energy Compass, April 19, 2002.
[24]Dmitry Zhdannikov, "Russian's Grim About Working Under Saddam," The Houston Chronicle, April 14, 2002.
[25]Information from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), "Arms Transfers to Iraq, 1981–2001," at http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_ … -2001.pdf.
[26] Peter Slevin, "3 Russian Firms' Deals Anger U.S.", The Washington Post, March 23, 2003.
[27]Central Intelligence Agency, The World Factbook 2002, at http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook.
[28]Trish Saywell, "Oil: The Danger of Deals with Iraq," Far Eastern Economic Review, March 6, 2003.
[29]Kenneth R. Timmerman, "Rogues Lending Hand to Saddam," Insight on the News, March 4, 2003.
[30]Kenneth R. Timmerman, "Rogues Lending Hand to Saddam," Insight on the News, March 4, 2003.
[31]Information from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), "Arms Transfers to Iraq, 1981–2001," at http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_ … -2001.pdf.
[32] U.S. Census Bureau, "U.S. Trade Balance with Iraq", available at http://www.census .gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5050.html.
[33] U.S. Census Bureau, "U.S. Trade Balance with Iraq", available at http://www.census .gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5050.html.
[34] Information from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), "Arms Transfers to Iraq, 1981–2001," at http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_ … -2001.pdf.
France controls over 22.5 percent of Iraq's imports.[1] French total trade with Iraq under the oil-for-food program is the third largest, totaling $3.1 billion since 1996, according to the United Nations.[2]
In 2001 France became Iraq's largest European trading partner. Roughly 60 French companies did an estimated $1.5 billion in trade with Baghdad in 2001 under the U.N. oil-for-food program.[3]
France's largest oil company, Total Fina Elf, has negotiated extensive oil contracts to develop the Majnoon and Nahr Umar oil fields in southern Iraq. Both the Majnoon and Nahr Umar fields are estimated to contain as much as 25 percent of the country's oil reserves. The two fields purportedly contain an estimated 26 billion barrels of oil.[4] In 2002, the non-war price per barrel of oil was $25. Based on that average these two fields have the potential to provide a gross return near $650 billion.
France's Alcatel company, a major telecom firm, is negotiating a $76 million contract to rehabilitate Iraq's telephone system.[5]
In 2001 French carmaker Renault SA sold $75 million worth of farming equipment to Iraq.[6]
More objections have been lodged against French export contracts with Iraq than any other exporting country under the oil-for-food program, according to a report published by the London Times. In addition French companies have signed contracts with Iraq worth more than $150 million that are suspected of being linked to its military operations.[7] Some of the goods offered by French companies to Iraq, detailed by UN documents, include refrigerated trucks that can be used as storage facilities and mobile laboratories for biological weapons.
Iraq owes France an estimated $6 billion in foreign debt accrued from arms sales in the 1970s and '80s.[8]
From 1981 to 2001, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), France was responsible for over 13 percent of Iraq's arms imports.[9]
Germany
Direct trade between Germany and Iraq amounts to about $350 million annually, and another $1 billion is reportedly sold through third parties.[10]
It has recently been reported that Saddam Hussein has ordered Iraqi domestic businesses to show preference to German companies as a reward for Germany's "firm positive stand in rejecting the launching of a military attack against Iraq." It was also reported that over 101 German companies were present at the Baghdad Annual exposition.[11]
During the 35th Annual Baghdad International Fair in November 2002, a German company signed a contract for $80 million for 5,000 cars and spare parts.[12]
In 2002, DaimlerChrysler was awarded over $13 million in contracts for German trucks and spare parts.[13]
Germany is owed billions by Iraq in foreign debt generated during the 1980's.[14]
German officials are investigating a German corporation accused of illegally channeling weapons to Iraq via Jordan. The equipment in question is used for boring the barrels of large cannons and is allegedly intended for Saddam Hussein's Al Fao Supercannon project.[15] An article in the German daily Tageszeitung reported that of the more than 80 German companies that have done business with Baghdad since around 1975 and have continued to do so up until 2001, many have supplied whole systems or components for weapons of mass destruction.
Russia
Russia controls roughly 5.8 percent of Iraq's annual imports.[16] Under the U.N. oil-for-food program, Russia's total trade with Iraq was somewhere between $530 million and $1 billion for the six months ending in December of 2001.[17]
According to the Russian Ambassador to Iraq, Vladimir Titorenko, new contracts worth another $200 million under the U.N. oil-for-food program are to be signed over the next three months.[18]
Russia's LUKoil negotiated a $4 billion, 23-year contract in 1997 to rehabilitate the 15 billion-barrel West Qurna field in southern Iraq. Work on the oil field was expected to commence upon cancellation of U.N. sanctions on Iraq. The deal is currently on hold.[19]
In October 2001, Salvneft, a Russian–Belarus company, negotiated a $52 million service contract to drill at the Tuba field in Southern Iraq.[20]
In April 2001, Russia's Zaruezhneft and Tatneft companies received a service contract to drill in the Saddam, Kirkuk, and Bai Hassan fields to rehabilitate the fields and reduce water incursion. Together the deals were valued at $13.2 million.[21]
A future $40 billion Iraqi–Russian economic agreement, reportedly signed in 2002, would allow for extensive oil exploration opportunities throughout western Iraq.[22] The proposal calls for 67 new projects, over a 10-year time frame, to explore and further develop fields in southern Iraq and the Western Desert, including the Suba, Luhais, West Qurna, and Rumaila projects. Additional projects added to the deal include second-phase construction of a pipeline running from southern to northern Iraq, and extensive drilling and gas projects. Work on these projects would commence upon cancellation of sanctions.[23]
Russia's Gazprom Company over the past few years has signed contracts worth $18 million to repair gas stations in Iraq.[24]
The former Soviet Union was the premier supplier of Iraqi arms. From 1981 to 2001, Russia supplied Iraq with 50 percent of its arms.[25]
Soviet-era debt of $7 billion through $8 billion was generated by arms sales to Iraq during the 1980–1988 Iran–Iraq war.
Three Russian firms are suspected of selling electronic jamming equipment, antitank missiles and thousands of night-vision goggles to Iraq in violation of U.N. sanctions.[26] Two of the companies identified are Aviaconversiya and KBP Tula.
China
China controls roughly 5.8 percent of Iraq's annual imports.[27]
China National Oil Company, partnered with China North Industries Corp., negotiated a 22-year-long deal for future oil exploration in the Al Ahdab field in southern Iraq.[28]
In recent years, the Chinese Aero-Technology Import–Export Company (CATIC) has been contracted to sell "meteorological satellite" and "surface observation" equipment to Iraq. The U.N. oil-for-food program approved this contract.[29]
CATIC also won approval from the U.N. in July 2000 to sell $2 million worth of fiber optic cables. This and similar contracts approved were disguised as telecommunications gear. These cables can be used for secure data and communications links between national command and control centers and long-range search radar, targeting radar, and missile-launch units, according to U.S. officials. In addition, China National Electric Wire & Cable and China National Technical Import Telecommunications Equipment Company are believed to have sold Iraq $6 million and $15.5 million worth of communications equipment and other unspecified supplies, respectively.[30]
According to a report from SIPRI, from 1981 to 2001, China was the second largest supplier of weapons and arms to Iraq, supplying over 18 percent of Iraq's weapons imports.[31]
United States
The United States remains the largest importer of Iraqi oil under the UN Oil-for-Food program. However, U.S. companies can no longer deal directly with Iraq for its oil imports. U.S. companies are forced to deal with third party vendors as a result of a ban on all American companies imposed by Iraq. In 2002, the U.S. imported $3.5 billion worth of Iraqi oil.[32]
Iraq is the sixth largest supplier of oil to the United States. In 2002, imports from Iraq accounted for only 5 percent of total U.S. oil imports, dropping down from 8.5 percent in 2001. In addition, American oil companies have not signed a contract with Baghdad since 1972.
In 2002, the U.S. exported $31 million worth of goods to Iraq.[33] The exports consisted mostly of agricultural goods and machine parts. U.S. sales to Iraq dropped off after the Gulf War and resumed only on a limited scale in 1996 under the UN Oil-for-Food program.
According to the SIPRI arms transfers database, from 1981 to 2001, the United States was the 11th largest supplier of weapons and arms to Iraq, supplying approximately $200 million of Iraq's weapons imports. The top three suppliers, from 1981 to 2001, were Russia, China and France respectively.[34]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1]Central Intelligence Agency, The World Factbook 2002, at http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook.
[2]Jon Talton, "French Ideals and Profits in the Iraqi Triangle", The Arizona Republic, February 23, 2003.
[3]Jon Talton, "French Ideals and Profits in the Iraqi Triangle," The Arizona Republic, February 23, 2003.
[4]Kenneth Katzman, Iraq: Oil-for-Food Program, International Sanctions, and Illicit Trade, Congressional Research Service, September 26, 2002.
[5]Evelyn Iritani, "Hussein's Government Signs Lucrative Contracts, Especially with Nations that Oppose the U.S. Led Effort to Oust the Regime," The Los Angeles Times, November 11, 2002.
[6] David Gauthier-Villars and John Carreyrou, "France Hopes to Use Old Ties to Land Role in Rebuilding Iraq", The Wall Street Journal, March 26, 2003.
[7] Stephen Grey and Jon Ungoed-Thomas, "France's $150m Deals linked to Iraq Arms", Sunday Times-London, February 23, 2003.
[8] Faye Bowers, "Driving Forces in War-wary Nations: The Stances of France, Germany, Russia and China are colored by economic and national interests", Christian Science Monitor, February 25, 2003.
[9]Information from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), "Arms Transfers to Iraq, 1981–2001," at http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_ … -2001.pdf.
[10]David R. Sands, "France, Germany Protect Iraq Ties," The Washington Times, February 20, 2003.
[11]David R. Sands, "France, Germany Protect Iraq Ties," The Washington Times, February 20, 2003.
[12]"Africa Analysis—Trade Points Way to Peace", The Financial Times: Asia Africa Intelligence Wire, November 19, 2002.
[13]Faye Bowers, "Driving Forces in War-Wary Nations: The Stances of France, Germany, Russia and China Are Colored by Economic and National Interests," Christian Science Monitor, February 25, 2003.
[14] Faye Bowers, "Driving Forces in War-wary Nations: The Stances of France, Germany, Russia and China are colored by economic and national interests", Christian Science Monitor, February 25, 2003.
[15]"Helping Saddam Rearm," The Wall Street Journal, October 11, 2002.
[16]Central Intelligence Agency, The World Factbook 2002, at http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook.
[17]Testimony provided by Ariel Cohen to the House International Relations Committee, "Russia and the Axis of Evil: Money, Ambition and U.S. Interests," February 26, 2003.
[18]Nelli Sharushkina, "Russia Plays the Field in Iraq—Mixed Signals Worry Baghdad," Energy Intelligence Briefing, February 5, 2003.
[19]Dan Morgan and David B. Ottaway, "In Iraqi War Scenario, Oil Is Key Issue," The Washington Post, September 15, 2002.
[20]Dan Morgan and David B. Ottaway, "In Iraqi War Scenario, Oil Is Key Issue," The Washington Post, September 15, 2002.
[21] "Russia Angles to Protect Post-war Interests", Energy Comapss, March 21, 2003
[22]Scott Peterson, "Russia's Newest Tie to Iraq: Moscow Is Set to Sign a $40 billion Economic Pact with Baghdad Next Month," Christian Science Monitor, August 20, 2002.
[23]"Mideast Tensions to Delay Iraq Iraqi–Russian Signing," Energy Compass, April 19, 2002.
[24]Dmitry Zhdannikov, "Russian's Grim About Working Under Saddam," The Houston Chronicle, April 14, 2002.
[25]Information from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), "Arms Transfers to Iraq, 1981–2001," at http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_ … -2001.pdf.
[26] Peter Slevin, "3 Russian Firms' Deals Anger U.S.", The Washington Post, March 23, 2003.
[27]Central Intelligence Agency, The World Factbook 2002, at http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook.
[28]Trish Saywell, "Oil: The Danger of Deals with Iraq," Far Eastern Economic Review, March 6, 2003.
[29]Kenneth R. Timmerman, "Rogues Lending Hand to Saddam," Insight on the News, March 4, 2003.
[30]Kenneth R. Timmerman, "Rogues Lending Hand to Saddam," Insight on the News, March 4, 2003.
[31]Information from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), "Arms Transfers to Iraq, 1981–2001," at http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_ … -2001.pdf.
[32] U.S. Census Bureau, "U.S. Trade Balance with Iraq", available at http://www.census .gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5050.html.
[33] U.S. Census Bureau, "U.S. Trade Balance with Iraq", available at http://www.census .gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5050.html.
[34] Information from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), "Arms Transfers to Iraq, 1981–2001," at http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_ … -2001.pdf.
And France are several billion dollars out of pocket from their dealings with Iraq. Doesn't exactly yell cash cow. I've acknowledged they had a lot of dealings with Iraq and, from the look of what you've just posted, so did Russia and China.usmarine wrote:
sigh...
France controls over 22.5 percent of Iraq's imports.[1] French total trade with Iraq under the oil-for-food program is the third largest, totaling $3.1 billion since 1996, according to the United Nations.[2]
In 2001 France became Iraq's largest European trading partner. Roughly 60 French companies did an estimated $1.5 billion in trade with Baghdad in 2001 under the U.N. oil-for-food program.[3]
France's largest oil company, Total Fina Elf, has negotiated extensive oil contracts to develop the Majnoon and Nahr Umar oil fields in southern Iraq. Both the Majnoon and Nahr Umar fields are estimated to contain as much as 25 percent of the country's oil reserves. The two fields purportedly contain an estimated 26 billion barrels of oil.[4] In 2002, the non-war price per barrel of oil was $25. Based on that average these two fields have the potential to provide a gross return near $650 billion.
France's Alcatel company, a major telecom firm, is negotiating a $76 million contract to rehabilitate Iraq's telephone system.[5]
In 2001 French carmaker Renault SA sold $75 million worth of farming equipment to Iraq.[6]
More objections have been lodged against French export contracts with Iraq than any other exporting country under the oil-for-food program, according to a report published by the London Times. In addition French companies have signed contracts with Iraq worth more than $150 million that are suspected of being linked to its military operations.[7] Some of the goods offered by French companies to Iraq, detailed by UN documents, include refrigerated trucks that can be used as storage facilities and mobile laboratories for biological weapons.
Iraq owes France an estimated $6 billion in foreign debt accrued from arms sales in the 1970s and '80s.[8]
From 1981 to 2001, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), France was responsible for over 13 percent of Iraq's arms imports.[9]
Germany
Direct trade between Germany and Iraq amounts to about $350 million annually, and another $1 billion is reportedly sold through third parties.[10]
It has recently been reported that Saddam Hussein has ordered Iraqi domestic businesses to show preference to German companies as a reward for Germany's "firm positive stand in rejecting the launching of a military attack against Iraq." It was also reported that over 101 German companies were present at the Baghdad Annual exposition.[11]
During the 35th Annual Baghdad International Fair in November 2002, a German company signed a contract for $80 million for 5,000 cars and spare parts.[12]
In 2002, DaimlerChrysler was awarded over $13 million in contracts for German trucks and spare parts.[13]
Germany is owed billions by Iraq in foreign debt generated during the 1980's.[14]
German officials are investigating a German corporation accused of illegally channeling weapons to Iraq via Jordan. The equipment in question is used for boring the barrels of large cannons and is allegedly intended for Saddam Hussein's Al Fao Supercannon project.[15] An article in the German daily Tageszeitung reported that of the more than 80 German companies that have done business with Baghdad since around 1975 and have continued to do so up until 2001, many have supplied whole systems or components for weapons of mass destruction.
Russia
Russia controls roughly 5.8 percent of Iraq's annual imports.[16] Under the U.N. oil-for-food program, Russia's total trade with Iraq was somewhere between $530 million and $1 billion for the six months ending in December of 2001.[17]
According to the Russian Ambassador to Iraq, Vladimir Titorenko, new contracts worth another $200 million under the U.N. oil-for-food program are to be signed over the next three months.[18]
Russia's LUKoil negotiated a $4 billion, 23-year contract in 1997 to rehabilitate the 15 billion-barrel West Qurna field in southern Iraq. Work on the oil field was expected to commence upon cancellation of U.N. sanctions on Iraq. The deal is currently on hold.[19]
In October 2001, Salvneft, a Russian–Belarus company, negotiated a $52 million service contract to drill at the Tuba field in Southern Iraq.[20]
In April 2001, Russia's Zaruezhneft and Tatneft companies received a service contract to drill in the Saddam, Kirkuk, and Bai Hassan fields to rehabilitate the fields and reduce water incursion. Together the deals were valued at $13.2 million.[21]
A future $40 billion Iraqi–Russian economic agreement, reportedly signed in 2002, would allow for extensive oil exploration opportunities throughout western Iraq.[22] The proposal calls for 67 new projects, over a 10-year time frame, to explore and further develop fields in southern Iraq and the Western Desert, including the Suba, Luhais, West Qurna, and Rumaila projects. Additional projects added to the deal include second-phase construction of a pipeline running from southern to northern Iraq, and extensive drilling and gas projects. Work on these projects would commence upon cancellation of sanctions.[23]
Russia's Gazprom Company over the past few years has signed contracts worth $18 million to repair gas stations in Iraq.[24]
The former Soviet Union was the premier supplier of Iraqi arms. From 1981 to 2001, Russia supplied Iraq with 50 percent of its arms.[25]
Soviet-era debt of $7 billion through $8 billion was generated by arms sales to Iraq during the 1980–1988 Iran–Iraq war.
Three Russian firms are suspected of selling electronic jamming equipment, antitank missiles and thousands of night-vision goggles to Iraq in violation of U.N. sanctions.[26] Two of the companies identified are Aviaconversiya and KBP Tula.
China
China controls roughly 5.8 percent of Iraq's annual imports.[27]
China National Oil Company, partnered with China North Industries Corp., negotiated a 22-year-long deal for future oil exploration in the Al Ahdab field in southern Iraq.[28]
In recent years, the Chinese Aero-Technology Import–Export Company (CATIC) has been contracted to sell "meteorological satellite" and "surface observation" equipment to Iraq. The U.N. oil-for-food program approved this contract.[29]
CATIC also won approval from the U.N. in July 2000 to sell $2 million worth of fiber optic cables. This and similar contracts approved were disguised as telecommunications gear. These cables can be used for secure data and communications links between national command and control centers and long-range search radar, targeting radar, and missile-launch units, according to U.S. officials. In addition, China National Electric Wire & Cable and China National Technical Import Telecommunications Equipment Company are believed to have sold Iraq $6 million and $15.5 million worth of communications equipment and other unspecified supplies, respectively.[30]
According to a report from SIPRI, from 1981 to 2001, China was the second largest supplier of weapons and arms to Iraq, supplying over 18 percent of Iraq's weapons imports.[31]
United States
The United States remains the largest importer of Iraqi oil under the UN Oil-for-Food program. However, U.S. companies can no longer deal directly with Iraq for its oil imports. U.S. companies are forced to deal with third party vendors as a result of a ban on all American companies imposed by Iraq. In 2002, the U.S. imported $3.5 billion worth of Iraqi oil.[32]
Iraq is the sixth largest supplier of oil to the United States. In 2002, imports from Iraq accounted for only 5 percent of total U.S. oil imports, dropping down from 8.5 percent in 2001. In addition, American oil companies have not signed a contract with Baghdad since 1972.
In 2002, the U.S. exported $31 million worth of goods to Iraq.[33] The exports consisted mostly of agricultural goods and machine parts. U.S. sales to Iraq dropped off after the Gulf War and resumed only on a limited scale in 1996 under the UN Oil-for-Food program.
According to the SIPRI arms transfers database, from 1981 to 2001, the United States was the 11th largest supplier of weapons and arms to Iraq, supplying approximately $200 million of Iraq's weapons imports. The top three suppliers, from 1981 to 2001, were Russia, China and France respectively.[34]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1]Central Intelligence Agency, The World Factbook 2002, at http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook.
[2]Jon Talton, "French Ideals and Profits in the Iraqi Triangle", The Arizona Republic, February 23, 2003.
[3]Jon Talton, "French Ideals and Profits in the Iraqi Triangle," The Arizona Republic, February 23, 2003.
[4]Kenneth Katzman, Iraq: Oil-for-Food Program, International Sanctions, and Illicit Trade, Congressional Research Service, September 26, 2002.
[5]Evelyn Iritani, "Hussein's Government Signs Lucrative Contracts, Especially with Nations that Oppose the U.S. Led Effort to Oust the Regime," The Los Angeles Times, November 11, 2002.
[6] David Gauthier-Villars and John Carreyrou, "France Hopes to Use Old Ties to Land Role in Rebuilding Iraq", The Wall Street Journal, March 26, 2003.
[7] Stephen Grey and Jon Ungoed-Thomas, "France's $150m Deals linked to Iraq Arms", Sunday Times-London, February 23, 2003.
[8] Faye Bowers, "Driving Forces in War-wary Nations: The Stances of France, Germany, Russia and China are colored by economic and national interests", Christian Science Monitor, February 25, 2003.
[9]Information from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), "Arms Transfers to Iraq, 1981–2001," at http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_ … -2001.pdf.
[10]David R. Sands, "France, Germany Protect Iraq Ties," The Washington Times, February 20, 2003.
[11]David R. Sands, "France, Germany Protect Iraq Ties," The Washington Times, February 20, 2003.
[12]"Africa Analysis—Trade Points Way to Peace", The Financial Times: Asia Africa Intelligence Wire, November 19, 2002.
[13]Faye Bowers, "Driving Forces in War-Wary Nations: The Stances of France, Germany, Russia and China Are Colored by Economic and National Interests," Christian Science Monitor, February 25, 2003.
[14] Faye Bowers, "Driving Forces in War-wary Nations: The Stances of France, Germany, Russia and China are colored by economic and national interests", Christian Science Monitor, February 25, 2003.
[15]"Helping Saddam Rearm," The Wall Street Journal, October 11, 2002.
[16]Central Intelligence Agency, The World Factbook 2002, at http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook.
[17]Testimony provided by Ariel Cohen to the House International Relations Committee, "Russia and the Axis of Evil: Money, Ambition and U.S. Interests," February 26, 2003.
[18]Nelli Sharushkina, "Russia Plays the Field in Iraq—Mixed Signals Worry Baghdad," Energy Intelligence Briefing, February 5, 2003.
[19]Dan Morgan and David B. Ottaway, "In Iraqi War Scenario, Oil Is Key Issue," The Washington Post, September 15, 2002.
[20]Dan Morgan and David B. Ottaway, "In Iraqi War Scenario, Oil Is Key Issue," The Washington Post, September 15, 2002.
[21] "Russia Angles to Protect Post-war Interests", Energy Comapss, March 21, 2003
[22]Scott Peterson, "Russia's Newest Tie to Iraq: Moscow Is Set to Sign a $40 billion Economic Pact with Baghdad Next Month," Christian Science Monitor, August 20, 2002.
[23]"Mideast Tensions to Delay Iraq Iraqi–Russian Signing," Energy Compass, April 19, 2002.
[24]Dmitry Zhdannikov, "Russian's Grim About Working Under Saddam," The Houston Chronicle, April 14, 2002.
[25]Information from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), "Arms Transfers to Iraq, 1981–2001," at http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_ … -2001.pdf.
[26] Peter Slevin, "3 Russian Firms' Deals Anger U.S.", The Washington Post, March 23, 2003.
[27]Central Intelligence Agency, The World Factbook 2002, at http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook.
[28]Trish Saywell, "Oil: The Danger of Deals with Iraq," Far Eastern Economic Review, March 6, 2003.
[29]Kenneth R. Timmerman, "Rogues Lending Hand to Saddam," Insight on the News, March 4, 2003.
[30]Kenneth R. Timmerman, "Rogues Lending Hand to Saddam," Insight on the News, March 4, 2003.
[31]Information from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), "Arms Transfers to Iraq, 1981–2001," at http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_ … -2001.pdf.
[32] U.S. Census Bureau, "U.S. Trade Balance with Iraq", available at http://www.census .gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5050.html.
[33] U.S. Census Bureau, "U.S. Trade Balance with Iraq", available at http://www.census .gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5050.html.
[34] Information from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), "Arms Transfers to Iraq, 1981–2001," at http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_ … -2001.pdf.
In any case, how are their opinions are funnier than those of the US and UK who just ignored the UN, International law and what they were told by their own intelligence agencies so they could go to war? A war that I doubt anyone understands the real motivations for.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-07-04 06:15:06)
they owed them money sure, but french businesses and others got very very rich off the oil foor food. removing saddam ruined that. do you not see why they have different opinions?
...for the French.usm wrote:
removing saddam ruined that.....
But made many American companies fabulously wealthy.
See how that works?
Fuck Israel
..and rusiians and germans.Dilbert_X wrote:
...for the French.usm wrote:
removing saddam ruined that.....
But made many American companies fabulously wealthy.
See how that works?
yes i know how it works. doesnt make one more right than the other.
It kind of does when one group is advocating war under false pretences....usmarine wrote:
..and rusiians and germans.Dilbert_X wrote:
...for the French.usm wrote:
removing saddam ruined that.....
But made many American companies fabulously wealthy.
See how that works?
yes i know how it works. doesnt make one more right than the other.
Except the French, Russians and Germans didn't invade or kill anyone, nor did their governments hand their countries companies juicy no-bid contracts and exclude foreigners having just invaded a country on totally bogus pretexts.
The French, Russians and Germans just bid for business like everyone else, as US companies were also free to do.
So it does make them more right than the US.
The French, Russians and Germans just bid for business like everyone else, as US companies were also free to do.
So it does make them more right than the US.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-07-04 06:21:50)
Fuck Israel
lol....and getting rich off the oil for food while people starve is fine? see, you might not see it, but girls can go to school now because of us. cant say the same for the french or germans can we? good lord. you guys. i am done. enjoy the rest of this thread.
Girls were going to school in Iraq, Iraq was the most secular country in the ME.
Since the invasion less so.
'Getting rich off oil for food while people starve'?
Those sanctions were in place thanks to the US dominated UN. The US still has sanctions against Cuba FFS.
If the US is dumb enough to impose sanctions against a country third parties 'getting rich' is just capitalism in action.
The crime was imposing sanctions, and creating the 'oil for food' program in the first place.
US companies were pretty happy to pocket the oil money to rebuild all the stuff the US unnecessarily bombed so I don't see what you're griping about.
Since the invasion less so.
'Getting rich off oil for food while people starve'?
Those sanctions were in place thanks to the US dominated UN. The US still has sanctions against Cuba FFS.
If the US is dumb enough to impose sanctions against a country third parties 'getting rich' is just capitalism in action.
The crime was imposing sanctions, and creating the 'oil for food' program in the first place.
US companies were pretty happy to pocket the oil money to rebuild all the stuff the US unnecessarily bombed so I don't see what you're griping about.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-07-04 06:30:04)
Fuck Israel
Girls were able to go to school under Saddam.usmarine wrote:
lol....and getting rich off the oil for food while people starve is fine? see, you might not see it, but girls can go to school now because of us. cant say the same for the french or germans can we? good lord. you guys. i am done. enjoy the rest of this thread.
This.Dilbert_X wrote:
The crime was imposing sanctions in the first place.
US companies were pretty happy to pocket the oil money to rebuild all the stuff the US bombed so I don't see what you're griping about.
Sanctions were not neccessary. Sustained weapons inspections were.
US companies were also trading with Iraq under the oil for food program, except they had to go through foreign intermediaries because of the ban Saddam placed on trading with the US.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-07-04 06:29:42)
as for the schools: not as much as you think. please dilbert, i have been there. dont tell me what is or what isnt. i know what the locals said.
Even Iran has a comprehensive schooling system for girls. Saddam just underinvested in their education programmes. It's not that they weren't there or they weren't allowed to go to school, just that the schools available were pretty shit. Now that's not so prevalent.usmarine wrote:
as for the schools: not as much as you think. please dilbert, i have been there. dont tell me what is or what isnt. i know what the locals said.
not what they said to me. they said (and you would love this program)....only the rich girls get a real education. the poor get fed pro saddam crap.
Thats the case the world over, the ME more so.usm wrote:
only the rich girls get a real education. the poor get fed pro saddam crap.
The difference now is they get fed pro-Islamic crap instead of pro-Saddam crap.
Fuck Israel
So they all got to go to school? That's very much what it sounds like you're saying.usmarine wrote:
not what they said to me. they said (and you would love this program)....only the rich girls get a real education. the poor get fed pro saddam crap.
But the poorer you were the more pro-Saddam propaganda you were spoon fed?
Basically the ME has been steadily raped by most countries outside it.
No country has gone in there without that intention.
No country has gone in there without that intention.
Fuck Israel
like every other page in a text book was saddam pcitures and such. that is not school. and the further you went outside of baghdad, the worse it got.Bertster7 wrote:
So they all got to go to school? That's very much what it sounds like you're saying.usmarine wrote:
not what they said to me. they said (and you would love this program)....only the rich girls get a real education. the poor get fed pro saddam crap.
But the poorer you were the more pro-Saddam propaganda you were spoon fed?
And what is the situation now?usm wrote:
like every other page in a text book was saddam pcitures and such. that is not school. and the further you went outside of baghdad, the worse it got.
They get taught to cook and recite the Koran?
Its one shitty situation swapped for another, unfortunately.
Still, at least Halliburton are happy.
Afghanistan I can understand, Iraq not. Iran might have made some sense given they really did have WMD and were sponsoring terrorism.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-07-04 07:00:12)
Fuck Israel