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unnamednewbie13
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This rather aligns with my thoughts on it (how many hands was this weapon being passed around before it got to Baldwin, etc.), but it would still be nice to know the full layout of what was going on, and where the positions were.
uziq
Member
+426|2577
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/o … ector-says

like i guessed, he was pointing the gun at the camera and hit the two people whose job it is to stand directly behind it.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+511|2844
Do you think that scene will be available on the Blu-Ray?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,927|5756|949

Do you think acting like an edgelord is still cool past 30?
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+511|2844

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Do you think acting like an edgelord is still cool past 30?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,939|5896|USA

uziq wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/o … ector-says

like i guessed, he was pointing the gun at the camera and hit the two people whose job it is to stand directly behind it.
That puts a cap on a few things I was unsure of. I had heard the live rounds and blank rounds were stored together, the gun being also used for target shooting. I could scarcely believe that yesterday.

Continued use of the term "live round" is also confusing. I am under the impression that blank rounds are also considered "live ammunition," so for the longest time I haven't been sure if an actual bullet (the usual projectile1 propelled through the barrel and outwards towards the target) kill one person and wounded another, or was it stuff coming out of a blank, but still a "live round?" The press is very notorious for mixing terms and otherwise mislabeling.

1

Very frustrating hearing that it's *checks notes* "nobody in particular's fault." Especially added onto stories about how this was such a problematic production. Especially if the gun was loaded with the kind of ammunition you'd usually shoot at a paper target. How was this gun checked by two people (who were mentioned) and still deemed cold? Where was the gun guy (see below) standing while they were practicing for the shot? Where were the two victims standing? What distance? What angle? How colossally deep does the rabbit hole go?

Snippet from a longish article from a movie gun guy talking about his job:

When there are firearms on set, you should be able to glance around and find an experienced firearms safety expert standing near the camera to give guidance to the cast and crew. We also sometimes stand directly in the line of fire, to provide a safe eye line for the actors. We stand in front of our work, and I would never ask an actor or crewmember to stand anywhere I am not willing to stand myself.
https://ascmag.com/blog/filmmakers-foru … h-firearms
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,927|5756|949

SuperJail Warden wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Do you think acting like an edgelord is still cool past 30?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNnEzYXBps8
You should be ashamed of yourself.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,939|5896|USA

re: blu-ray features (ugh)

Will 'Rust' ever be released? Halyna Hutchins' death may mean 'end of the road' for film
https://meaww.com/rust-canceled-alec-ba … -death-gun

also in article:
'Rust' was a small budget movie, with only $7 million invested in the same. The production was affected time and again due to appalling working conditions and questionable safety measures. In fact, the working conditions were so bad that the crew had staged a walkout on the very day of the shooting incident, hours before the mishap.

Gun inspections were not properly conducted on the film set. According to Los Angeles Times, one of the camera operators had earlier complained to a production manager about gun safety issues on the set. "We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” the complaint read. Another person from the set commented, "Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting."
I heard about the non-union people stuff before. But not, or I don't recall, anything about 3 accidental discharges. Holy moly.

Tying this in with the stuff I posted above.

There are several instances reported from the set that might point towards unsafe situations arising time and again.  Baldwin ignored the golden rule of gun safety by pointing the prop at someone and also said the gun should never have been loaded with live ammunition in the first place. "There should have never been live rounds on a movie set, that's number one. Number two is every single person on a movie set has a right to inspect a weapon before it's fired. And number three is, there is no reason to ever put a person in front of a weapon that's firing," Zak Knight, a pyrotechnic and special effects engineer who is a member of Local 44, said.
OK but was it like a bullet or a blank round, I have to initially wonder.

e:
rightwing take:

Alec Baldwin's Gun Didn't 'Accidentally Discharge,' But Gun Owners Already Know That
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/k … t-n1526441
The “prop” gun Alec Baldwin shot two people with had been accidentally OR negligently discharged, at least twice, several days earlier, according to film crew members working on the movie Rust. Alec Baldwin’s stunt-double somehow discharged the gun twice on the Bonanza Creek Ranch movie set. Apparently, he was told the gun was “cold,” meaning it wasn’t loaded with bullets or blanks.

“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a film crew member stated to reporters. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”

Another member of the crew reportedly texted a production manager, stating that the same gun had been accidentally discharged three times.

“We’ve now had three accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” the text read.

Some crew members of the film shoot walked off the set over safety concerns hours before the deadly accident.
Admittedly this article starts to ramble a bit and become a little op-ed (pjmedia, lol). Why would Alec have to know how to apply a t-shirt bandage or whatever? Shouldn't the set have medics?

What about Baldwin himself? Is he culpable? The internet is full of jokes at the progressive snob’s expense. Word on the street is that he was screaming, “Why was I handed a hot gun!” as his victims lay bleeding. Instead of attacking responsible gun owners for years, maybe Alec should have taken ONE DAY out of his life to attend a gun-training program with the NRA. Or, maybe, learned how to apply a t-shirt to a gunshot wound until the medics arrive.
Eh. Also, there are alternatives to the NRA out there.

What kind of training does Baldwin have with firearms, I wonder? I'd be interested in reading about that. I would imagine private lessons at least. And more than "one day" in total. Because he's in movies with guns. Has he had refresher courses lately? How many years ago was his last refresher?

Bruce Lee’s son Brandon was killed when wadding from a blank got stuck in a gun and was propelled into him the next time it was fired. It should have been checked. Every Hollywood gun should be inspected after EVERY use.
Who cares if Alec Baldwin, a famously obnoxious and occasionally violent reprobate, is in a hurry? Check the gun.
Was Baldwin "in a hurry" though?

The internet is full of idiots. Far be it from us to make fun of their bad day. But let us learn from their mistakes.
How munificent.

Here is one of the most famous videos of a “gun enthusiast” shooting himself in the leg. Don’t try this at home.
Yes.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2021-10-25 18:18:14)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,757|5230|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/oct/25/alec-baldwin-was-rehearsing-scene-when-gun-went-off-rust-director-says

like i guessed, he was pointing the gun at the camera and hit the two people whose job it is to stand directly behind it.
Well done Sherlock, great deduction that he was pointing his gun at the person he shot. Pretty hard to hit someone otherwise.

The question is why, at this point it seems he was practicing his quick-draw and let it off.
Birds Aren't Real
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,757|5230|eXtreme to the maX

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Continued use of the term "live round" is also confusing.
I thought blanks and live rounds were different terms.

Very frustrating hearing that it's *checks notes* "nobody in particular's fault.
They're in classic asshole career-protection mode now.

There were 4-5 safety checks and they all failed? Well clearly its the responsibility of the person who failed the first safety check, not the 3-4 people after that who failed theirs.

Next go running to the family to get their signoff that it wasn't your fault but the fault of the most junior and inexperienced person on the set.

Appear blubbing on TV shows about upset you are that its clearly someone else's fault - done and dusted.


Its everyone's fault

The prop person is liable

The directors, producers who allowed target practice with live ammo are liable

The directors, producers who didn't ensure proper procedures were in place are liable

The assistant director who didn't complete a safety check before handing someone a gun is liable

Depending on what they instructed Baldwin to do the two people who got shot are liable

Baldwin is liable for taking a gun without proper checks then pointing it at someone and pulling the trigger.

But big fish never suffer so they'll pick on one little person.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2021-10-25 19:10:42)

Birds Aren't Real
uziq
Member
+426|2577

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/oct/25/alec-baldwin-was-rehearsing-scene-when-gun-went-off-rust-director-says

like i guessed, he was pointing the gun at the camera and hit the two people whose job it is to stand directly behind it.
Well done Sherlock, great deduction that he was pointing his gun at the person he shot. Pretty hard to hit someone otherwise.

The question is why, at this point it seems he was practicing his quick-draw and let it off.
the point was he was pointing it towards the camera, in an actual scene, which is why a round was discharged and two people got hurt.

people were speculating that he was 'clowning around on set'. i said it's likely that it was pointed at the camera in an actual scene.

that's because from a simple movie-making perspective, if you have one gun and a scene in which a round is discharged, you want to be filming it pointing 'at' the camera (or using aforementioned trickery of perspective to make it look as such). filming a single person firing a gun from a side angle is not exactly the best use of a shot.

weren't you lecturing me on composition?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTL0bqhtmqXZzGm3ZBMlB1kEfH6ow_vA8TM6D8BXM06_DMXTxSFSm360H6K--6akrLpCa8&usqp=CAU
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,939|5896|USA

I speculated, in the midst of reporting full of murk and evasion and unsurety, that he may have been clowning around. A lot of people get injured or killed as a result of people clowning around with guns.

As I pointed out before, I posted that, here, on this fossil of a video game forum with maybe five of six active posters. Not on other social media where it would reach many more eyes whom I would have a hard time explaining the concept of "speculation" to.

@dilbert - synonymous, as I understand it. from concealednation.org (lol, atlantis) glossary:

BLANK CARTRIDGE – A round loaded with blackpowder or a special smokeless powder but lacking a projectile. Used mainly in starting races, theatrical productions, troop exercises and in training dogs.

ROUND – Synonym for a cartridge. A unit of measure for ammunition which is one complete unit of ammunition, which includes a bullet (or other projectile), powder, and a primer, and is contained in an outer shell or case. Typical quantities are 20 rounds and 50 rounds in single box.
Media gets gun terminology wrong all the time. Some of the stories I've read read made a mess of this incident as well, some going as far as (virtually) dismissing it as tragic, uncontrollable circumstances, like if Zeus struck her down with a bolt of lightning. Days later, seeing more criticism from within the set as well as from uninvolved industry professionals.

I would like a map of where everyone was standing at the time, where the gun was pointed, what range and angle it was being filmed from, and what checks that gun went through before it was passed to Baldwin. And of course, if Baldwin was acting all agitated, impatient, or just goofing around. Or if the shot was being hurried for any other reason (complaints from within cite that things were "rushed").

Even if every step along the way to declaring a gun cold failed, if it did fire an actual bullet, that bullet shouldn't have impacted anywhere near anyone else.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,757|5230|eXtreme to the maX
The first question really is whether the director told Baldwin to point the gun at the camera and 'fire' it.

I'm sure most filming is rushed, 99% of the work is in setup and preparation which no-one really wants to pay for, hence a 2hr film can take six months to shoot.
Birds Aren't Real
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,939|5896|USA

I have like a hundred questions. Positions are just one of them.

The working environment on this (rushed) project was exceptionally bad if you're to believe complaints. There were already 3 accidental discharges, if you read my post earlier. But on they went with the same oblivious methods, apparently. Sane productions take their guns seriously, even if the budget isn't all that high.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,757|5230|eXtreme to the maX
The asst director got mad when an actor wanted a gun checked before they put it to their head and fired it.
Birds Aren't Real
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,939|5896|USA

To make a long post short here is the job an assistant director: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assistant_director

They should be concerned with the health and safety of the crew. Not directing (ugh) people away from their concerns over lax safety protocols. Certainly not taking over for the job of armorer or firearms instructor.

It was reported that there were walk-offs earlier because of safety protocol concerns. A bunch of replacements were brought in. I'm surprised that Baldwin wasn't concerned as well. Did all this stuff really just happen under his nose? Was he really unaware that there were issues? He's a veteran actor with several page downs of roles in his bio. Decades of work. Some of those works have guns. No alarm bells, at all?

What were the positions and distances, etc., etc.

Worker in charge of Alec Baldwin’s prop gun was replacement hire amid on-set chaos, safety concerns
https://nypost.com/2021/10/22/replaceme … -prop-gun/

oct22 old news wrote:

On a 911 recording obtained by TMZ, a woman who identifies herself as the movie’s script supervisor is heard blaming the accident on someone whose name is apparently bleeped out.

“OK, this f- -king [bleep] that yelled at me at lunch asking about revisions, this motherf- -ker,” she says, apparently to someone nearby.

“Did you see him lean over my desk and yell at me? He’s supposed to check the guns. He’s responsible for what happened.”
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,939|5896|USA

Donald Trump Jr. one-upped Boebert by apparently selling shirts that say "Guns Don't Kill People. Alec Baldwin Kills People." I hardly think his family should be talking about killing people after all the virus misinformation the Trump administration spewed out. But it is like the Trumps to capitalize on an innocent cinematographer's tragic, preventable death. So callously soon after it happened.


Some of the comments are a blast.

Family of Halyna Hutchins mourns slain cinematographer as investigation into 'Rust' film set shooting continues (oct24)
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/24/entertai … index.html

embedded video wrote:

The fact that this gun was pointed at someone and then discharged is an absolute, inexcusable violation of firearm safety rules.
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,719|5861|Oxferd Ohire
Did Jr get facial hair implants. It looks so weird
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
uziq
Member
+426|2577
i think he has a prescription medication and/or coke problem. he looks bloated and his behaviour is impulsive and erratic.

the beard stops where his jawline used to be. drinking a lot and taking drugs will do that to your face.

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-26 08:54:54)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+511|2844
Can we just talk about how bad of a premise this movie was? Who wants to Alec Baldwin as a cowboy? Can you imagine the accent he must be trying in these scenes?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,757|5230|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

i think he has a prescription medication and/or coke problem. he looks bloated and his behaviour is impulsive and erratic.

the beard stops where his jawline used to be. drinking a lot and taking drugs will do that to your face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfp1aWpe6Lk
Or it could be genetic

https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/5d1dd2db6a2cbfcfa359219a46de1c5e
Birds Aren't Real
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,939|5896|USA

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Can we just talk about how bad of a premise this movie was? Who wants to Alec Baldwin as a cowboy? Can you imagine the accent he must be trying in these scenes?
I found this headline recently:

Who is Alec Baldwin, the actor who accidentally killed the director on film? - debatepost.com
*cinematographer

But anyway, I imagine at any other time the question would have rankled him.

I see his name and it just brings me back to Beetlejuice.

uziq
Member
+426|2577

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

i think he has a prescription medication and/or coke problem. he looks bloated and his behaviour is impulsive and erratic.

the beard stops where his jawline used to be. drinking a lot and taking drugs will do that to your face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfp1aWpe6Lk
Or it could be genetic

https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/5d1dd2db6a2cbfcfa359219a46de1c5e
trump is also medicated to high-hell. a man of his age and in his condition is on a cocktail of drugs. all of his official presidential dr reports were so hilariously off-the-mark that it was practically a meme. 'dear leader is in amazing health and today just saddled a wild horse' etc. type stuff.

agree about the alec baldwin movie. i can't believe we're talking about it so much. it was a tiny, tinpot, shitty and cheap production ran by his own production company wasn't it? the movie was going to be a b-grade stinker. now the world are discussing the film set like its the scene of a tragedy fit for racine. it was a shambolic operation ran on a shoestring budget.

this alec baldwin movie is basically one level above a steven seagal or bruce willis straight-to-DVD affair. these tiny, crappy movies are often just staged for the tax write-offs tbh.

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-26 21:02:41)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,939|5896|USA

By now I think everyone here is aware that it's/was a cheap movie and a bad work environment. I didn't even know about Rust until all this went down. Currently, I know more about the shooting than I do about the plot.

There's juicy American gossip at play. Gun politics and partisan politics. Gun safety and procedure. Informed and misleading commentary. Workplace safety, the worker vs. the boss. The drama of a victim's death due to negligence on an unbelievably storied scale. Recollection of other gun deaths previously in the film industry.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+511|2844
I look forward to seeing the documentary about everything that went wrong with this film.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg

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