I find it odd that the 1300 page bill was given out yesterday. did they all read it? lulz. oh, and they apparently added 309 pages at 4am today. ya, sure they read it all. fuck sakes. obama you fail.
It's really not just the democrats on the Power plants it's the republicans as well. If we did start making the change over to Nuclear power think about the job losses in the coal and probably oil industry. Job losses = loss of revenue and would mean higher crime.
If something makes sense to do it still doesn't make it right.
If something makes sense to do it still doesn't make it right.
This is some of the most uninformed bullshit I have ever read. Feilding is one man who doesnt belong to a party and only has power because he has balance of power in the senate. He is an ultraconservative " Family First " party stooge. And to be honest he is as thick as shit.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
the Australians(politicians) have figured out the global warming, climate change... doesn't it feel a little warm in here scam.
"Steve Fielding recently asked the Obama administration to reassure him on the science of man-made global warming. When the administration proved unhelpful, Mr. Fielding decided to vote against climate-change legislation.
If you haven't heard of this politician, it's because he's a member of the Australian Senate. As the U.S. House of Representatives prepares to pass a climate-change bill, the Australian Parliament is preparing to kill its own country's carbon-emissions scheme. Why? A growing number of Australian politicians, scientists and citizens once again doubt the science of human-caused global warming.
"The collapse of the "consensus" has been driven by reality. The inconvenient truth is that the earth's temperatures have flat-lined since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02. Peer-reviewed research has debunked doomsday scenarios about the polar ice caps, hurricanes, malaria, extinctions, rising oceans. A global financial crisis has politicians taking a harder look at the science that would require them to hamstring their economies to rein in carbon."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html
BO and Co are hoping to slam this through as quickly as possible... the people are on to them.
To straighten the facts out a bit. Of the 2 main partys, the Labor party is looking to introduce a carbon emissions scheme, The "Liberal" party (right wing conservatives), have sought to delay it a few months. The leader of the Liberal party has agreed that there will be a carbon emission reduction sheme, its just a matter of time.
One loony independent senate member does not make up the whole parliament CHECK YOUR FACTS!!!
There is no "Collapse in Consensus". The overwhelming majority of scientists and climatologists still back climate change. The peer reveiwed research that has debunked climate change has been debunked by more peer reveiw research. Despite what you have mistakenly said above many of the predictions have come true. Glacier melts, diminishing north pole, coral bleaching, rising snow lines etc are happening right now.
Last edited by Burwhale (2009-06-26 16:07:24)
Cap and trade passed.
There goes my wallet.
There goes my wallet.
One more nail in the coffin.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
And transparent government... Ruthless and intolerant are words I'd use to describe this administration.ATG wrote:
Cap and trade passed.
There goes my wallet.
Don't send your wallet just yet, as I don't think this will pass the Senate. They're all ready in recess for the 4th of July. If the bill had a chance they would have stayed.
Maybe the Senate by recessing is sending a message to the Supreme Community Organizer. They like their power too, and an election year is coming up where SCO isn't on the ticket to bring out votes. People paying attention to actual policies (and the homeless A.C.O.R.N. buses in) will vote. We are pissed off and going to regain some seats to put an end to the madness -and the Senate know this too.
Or maybe some Senators realize that they're there to represent their district, not some wack-job far left agenda.
But this guy has to act now. Regardless, the American public is starting to rouse, they're catching on to him. He's going to lose a few seats in the upcoming election. His agenda will grind to a halt and he will be a lame duck. This day can't come soon enough..
Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2009-06-26 20:49:54)
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
How many here called their congressman to express their opinion?
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
ok... so your country is screwed also... got it...Burwhale wrote:
This is some of the most uninformed bullshit I have ever read. Feilding is one man who doesnt belong to a party and only has power because he has balance of power in the senate. He is an ultraconservative " Family First " party stooge. And to be honest he is as thick as shit.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
the Australians(politicians) have figured out the global warming, climate change... doesn't it feel a little warm in here scam.
"Steve Fielding recently asked the Obama administration to reassure him on the science of man-made global warming. When the administration proved unhelpful, Mr. Fielding decided to vote against climate-change legislation.
If you haven't heard of this politician, it's because he's a member of the Australian Senate. As the U.S. House of Representatives prepares to pass a climate-change bill, the Australian Parliament is preparing to kill its own country's carbon-emissions scheme. Why? A growing number of Australian politicians, scientists and citizens once again doubt the science of human-caused global warming.
"The collapse of the "consensus" has been driven by reality. The inconvenient truth is that the earth's temperatures have flat-lined since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02. Peer-reviewed research has debunked doomsday scenarios about the polar ice caps, hurricanes, malaria, extinctions, rising oceans. A global financial crisis has politicians taking a harder look at the science that would require them to hamstring their economies to rein in carbon."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html
BO and Co are hoping to slam this through as quickly as possible... the people are on to them.
To straighten the facts out a bit. Of the 2 main partys, the Labor party is looking to introduce a carbon emissions scheme, The "Liberal" party (right wing conservatives), have sought to delay it a few months. The leader of the Liberal party has agreed that there will be a carbon emission reduction sheme, its just a matter of time.
One loony independent senate member does not make up the whole parliament CHECK YOUR FACTS!!!
There is no "Collapse in Consensus". The overwhelming majority of scientists and climatologists still back climate change. The peer reveiwed research that has debunked climate change has been debunked by more peer reveiw research. Despite what you have mistakenly said above many of the predictions have come true. Glacier melts, diminishing north pole, coral bleaching, rising snow lines etc are happening right now.
enjoy the taxes and the realization 5 years from now... that the only thing that has changed is how much
less you have in your wallet.
Also...I quoted what the guy said... i didn't write it.
Here are some facts on the global warming myth
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/aginatur/moregw.htm
and this has passed the house... it still needs to get through the senate
to start the extra taxing for socialized healthcare.
2010 can't come fast enough
Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-06-26 17:24:03)
Love is the answer
don't worry people, we have Obama in the White House now and a Democratic House and Senate.
Who will benefit from cap and tax?
Pelosi and her business interests...
http://www.reagan2.com/index.php/compon … -and-trade
What do the people get besides taxes?
Fact: Members of Congress have repeatedly downplayed the true cost of cap and trade legislation. When the tougher restrictions outlined in this legislation become effective in 2020, it will dramatically increase the price of gas and electricity in America. According to The Heritage Foundation, this climate change bill will cost an average family of four $426 in new taxes in 2012. That figure will dramatically increase in the year 2035 to $1,241 when even tougher restrictions on emissions are put into place.
Fact: Regressive energy taxes like this one hurt senior citizens, the poor and the unemployed the most. Most Members of the House won’t have read the 1,201 page bill that they’re voting on today. But experts on energy policy that have followed this legislation have issued dire warnings about the dramatic loss of personal income that climate change schemes like this will have. Minnesota will be hit particularly hard. For example, in Congressman Keith Ellison’s Minneapolis district alone, experts estimate that in 2012, the loss in personal income due to this legislation will equal $426 million. The economic loss will be felt through the loss of manufacturing jobs and increased costs associated with utilities. This bill will kill jobs in Minnesota, period. Nationwide, experts predict that the U.S. may lose over one million jobs to other countries due to cap and trade legislation.
Fact: Cap and Trade sponsors, Congressmen Henry Waxman and Edward Markey and the leadership in the House know that they must pass this bill quickly. The longer the delay, the more consumers will learn about its dramatic effects on our struggling economy. The leadership in Washington has vowed to pass this bill no matter how dramatic a cost this will impose on the unemployed – not to mention its lasting effect on the rest of us who are struggling to survive the worst economy in decades. They are so desperate in D.C., in fact, that they defeated amendments to this bill that would have suspended the law should gasoline surpass $5 per gallon or electric rates rise 10% -- or if the unemployment rate hits 15%.
This bill isn’t about protecting the environment – it’s a tax and one of the largest tax increases ever imposed on Americans.
During these difficult economic times, it’s become apparent that Washington can do very little to create jobs or stimulate the economy. After throwing hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars towards our nation’s growing economic problems, we’ve only seen matters get worse. If Congress approves cap and trade legislation, we can be sure of one thing: that elected officials are more worried about Washington special interests than our nation’s best interest.
Pelosi and her business interests...
http://www.reagan2.com/index.php/compon … -and-trade
What do the people get besides taxes?
Fact: Members of Congress have repeatedly downplayed the true cost of cap and trade legislation. When the tougher restrictions outlined in this legislation become effective in 2020, it will dramatically increase the price of gas and electricity in America. According to The Heritage Foundation, this climate change bill will cost an average family of four $426 in new taxes in 2012. That figure will dramatically increase in the year 2035 to $1,241 when even tougher restrictions on emissions are put into place.
Fact: Regressive energy taxes like this one hurt senior citizens, the poor and the unemployed the most. Most Members of the House won’t have read the 1,201 page bill that they’re voting on today. But experts on energy policy that have followed this legislation have issued dire warnings about the dramatic loss of personal income that climate change schemes like this will have. Minnesota will be hit particularly hard. For example, in Congressman Keith Ellison’s Minneapolis district alone, experts estimate that in 2012, the loss in personal income due to this legislation will equal $426 million. The economic loss will be felt through the loss of manufacturing jobs and increased costs associated with utilities. This bill will kill jobs in Minnesota, period. Nationwide, experts predict that the U.S. may lose over one million jobs to other countries due to cap and trade legislation.
Fact: Cap and Trade sponsors, Congressmen Henry Waxman and Edward Markey and the leadership in the House know that they must pass this bill quickly. The longer the delay, the more consumers will learn about its dramatic effects on our struggling economy. The leadership in Washington has vowed to pass this bill no matter how dramatic a cost this will impose on the unemployed – not to mention its lasting effect on the rest of us who are struggling to survive the worst economy in decades. They are so desperate in D.C., in fact, that they defeated amendments to this bill that would have suspended the law should gasoline surpass $5 per gallon or electric rates rise 10% -- or if the unemployment rate hits 15%.
This bill isn’t about protecting the environment – it’s a tax and one of the largest tax increases ever imposed on Americans.
During these difficult economic times, it’s become apparent that Washington can do very little to create jobs or stimulate the economy. After throwing hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars towards our nation’s growing economic problems, we’ve only seen matters get worse. If Congress approves cap and trade legislation, we can be sure of one thing: that elected officials are more worried about Washington special interests than our nation’s best interest.
Love is the answer
Estimated $3,000 (€2,131) more per year. There goes my standard of living.ATG wrote:
Cap and trade passed.
There goes my wallet.
My congressman didn't vote for it...I email him regularly and donate to his campaign :-)LividBovine wrote:
How many here called their congressman to express their opinion?
I've stopped donating to the Republican party since 2006. Both my Senators never respond to my emails (Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein).
Good on you then. I called Rep. Tim Walz and found he was supporting it. I knew he would, but had to call and express my displeasure with it anyways. I am lucky, I have Klubacher, and almost Franken for Senator, I will be frustrated very often.Harmor wrote:
My congressman didn't vote for it...I email him regularly and donate to his campaign :-)LividBovine wrote:
How many here called their congressman to express their opinion?
I've stopped donating to the Republican party since 2006. Both my Senators never respond to my emails (Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein).
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Boehner tried to filabuster..
Btw here are your gop defectors. It would have failed if they did not jump ship.
Overnight, House Democrats tacked onto the bill a 300-page amendment. So when Boehner took his time to speak against the package at the end of the debate, the Ohio Republican then decided to peel through major portions of the bill and read them aloud before his House colleagues.
Historically, rank-and-file lawmakers are only given a few minutes to speak on the House floor. But the Speaker, Majority Leader and Minority Leader are given great latitude to speak when they approach the microphones.
After Boehner spoke for a few minutes, the leader donned a pair of reading glasses and began leafing through a gigantic, white binder. At that point, House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D-CA) asked the chair if Boehner could do that.
“I know we have this magic minute that gives leaders a lot of extra time to speak. But I’m just wondering if there is some limit under the rules on the time that a leader may take, even though the time yielded was not 20 or 30 minutes?” Waxman asked.
Waxman also wondered if any “historical records would be broken” by Boehner reading part of the bill and queried whether the tactic was “an attempt to try to get some people to leave on a close vote?”
The Speaker Pro Tempore, Rep. Ellen Tauscher (D-CA) then ruled that Boehner was order.
“It is the custom of the house is to listen to the leader’s comments,” Tauscher said, prompting a round of applause by Republicans.
Tauscher’s ruling immediately set House precedent, meaning Boehner could continue to read the legislation in order. Democrats, at least for the time being, watched and listened as Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) conferred near the back of the chamber.
“Is there anything we aren’t regulating in this bill?” Boehner asked, leafing through the pages. He wondered if the community group ACORN qualified for certain grants. He asked why an energy and climate bill was “trying to solve the problems with Fannie (Mae) and Freddie (Mac).”
Incidentally, this may be Tauscher’s final time presiding over the House. The Senate just confirmed her to be the Undersecretary for Arms Control at the State Department.
Btw here are your gop defectors. It would have failed if they did not jump ship.
Bono Mack
Castle
Kirk
Lance
LoBiondo
McHugh
Reichert
Smith (NJ)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Unsubstatiated bullshit posing for facts?http://www.ourcivilisation.com/aginatur/moregw.htm
Seriously, I really wonder why A-AGW peeps have to resort to blogs and other dedicated sites rather than peer-reviewed articles to make their case. Oh but of course - science is part of the graet conspiracy, innit?
Last edited by Spark (2009-06-26 18:38:19)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Kinda like Global Warming eh?Spark wrote:
Unsubstatiated bullshit posing for facts?http://www.ourcivilisation.com/aginatur/moregw.htm
Seriously, I really wonder why A-AGW peeps have to resort to blogs and other dedicated sites rather than peer-reviewed articles to make their case. Oh but of course - science is part of the graet conspiracy, innit?
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Michael N. Castle, Deleaware, At-LargeKmarion wrote:
Btw here are your gop defectors. It would have failed if they did not jump ship...
Washington Office 1233 Longworth HOB
Washington, DC 20515
p: 202.225.4165
f: 202.225.2291
Mark Kirk, Illinois, 10th
Washington, DC Office
1030 Longworth HOB
Washington, D.C. 20515
Phone: 202-225-4835
Fax: 202-225-0837
Leonard Lance, New Jersey, 7th
Washington DC Office
114 Cannon HOB
Washington, D.C. 20515
Phone: (202) 225-5361
Fax: (202) 225-9460
Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey, 2nd (crappy website too)
Washington Office
2427 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
(202) 225-6572 (phone),
(202) 225-3318 (fax)
Mary Bono Mack, California, 45th
WASHINGTON, D.C.
104 Cannon House Office Bldg
Washington, D.C. 20515
T (202) 225-5330
F (202) 225-2961
John M. McHugh, New York, 23rd
WASHINGTON, DC OFFICE
2366 Rayburn House Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20515-3223
T (202) 225-4611
F (202) 226-0621
David G. Reichert, Washington, 8th
Washington, DC Office
US House of Representatives
1730 Longworth Building
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-7761
(202) 225-4282 Fax
Chris Smith, New Jersey, 4th
Washington, DC Office
2373 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
p 202-225-3765
f 202-225-7768
I didn't get their email addresses because you have to verify your zipcode...
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
Last edited by Harmor (2009-06-26 18:46:30)
He said the site was unsubstantiated... so i guess it's so.LividBovine wrote:
Kinda like Global Warming eh?Spark wrote:
Unsubstatiated bullshit posing for facts?http://www.ourcivilisation.com/aginatur/moregw.htm
Seriously, I really wonder why A-AGW peeps have to resort to blogs and other dedicated sites rather than peer-reviewed articles to make their case. Oh but of course - science is part of the graet conspiracy, innit?
http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php
http://www.globalwarminglies.com/
What will the cap and tax do to help the environment? That is the question?
I am all for rational ways to stop unnedeeded poluting...
Let's find rational solutions that wont crush industries and make jobs go overseas...
Nobody can argue that the govt will f@ck this up...
Love is the answer
Global warming is just a tool to get a socialist agenda though. The Devil is in the details.LividBovine wrote:
Kinda like Global Warming eh?Spark wrote:
Unsubstatiated bullshit posing for facts?http://www.ourcivilisation.com/aginatur/moregw.htm
Seriously, I really wonder why A-AGW peeps have to resort to blogs and other dedicated sites rather than peer-reviewed articles to make their case. Oh but of course - science is part of the graet conspiracy, innit?
44 Democrats voted no..
Xbone Stormsurgezz
And we're going to have them run our healthcare next? I wonder if Australia is nice this time of year...[TUF]Catbox wrote:
He said the site was unsubstantiated... so i guess it's so.LividBovine wrote:
Kinda like Global Warming eh?Spark wrote:
Unsubstatiated bullshit posing for facts?
Seriously, I really wonder why A-AGW peeps have to resort to blogs and other dedicated sites rather than peer-reviewed articles to make their case. Oh but of course - science is part of the graet conspiracy, innit?
http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php
http://www.globalwarminglies.com/
What will the cap and tax do to help the environment? That is the question?
I am all for rational ways to stop unnedeeded poluting...
Let's find rational solutions that wont crush industries and make jobs go overseas...
Nobody can argue that the govt will f@ck this up...
All the people that voted yes... left or right will pay the consequences in 2010...
We can't afford their Utopia...
We can't afford their Utopia...
Love is the answer
Fellas, lets stick to the legislation and it's effect. We have other topics for addressing the science of climate change.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I share many of your concerns over cap-and-trade (if you really need a 'market-incentive', just make it simple, don't bullshit around and just call it for what it is - a carbon tax. Chuck it on carbon sources and watch it flow.), but it really, really doesn't help if you spend half your time saying 'global warming is bullshit' and the other half saying 'we need better ways to fight global warming.'[TUF]Catbox wrote:
He said the site was unsubstantiated... so i guess it's so.LividBovine wrote:
Kinda like Global Warming eh?Spark wrote:
Unsubstatiated bullshit posing for facts?
Seriously, I really wonder why A-AGW peeps have to resort to blogs and other dedicated sites rather than peer-reviewed articles to make their case. Oh but of course - science is part of the graet conspiracy, innit?
http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php
http://www.globalwarminglies.com/
What will the cap and tax do to help the environment? That is the question?
I am all for rational ways to stop unnedeeded poluting...
Let's find rational solutions that wont crush industries and make jobs go overseas...
Nobody can argue that the govt will f@ck this up...
Anyway, enough of that.
Anyone kind enough to give me a summary of the proposed C+T framework? This topic has been very light on specifics so far...
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Wait I'm made of carbon...