bogo24dk
Member
+26|6804
Meeting between foreign minister, US secretary of state manifests deep disagreement between Obama administration, Netanyahu's government. Clinton demands stop to settlements, Lieberman says Israel reached understandings with Bush administration

Yitzhak Benhorin
Published:     06.17.09, 23:22 / Israel News

WASHINGTON – Public confrontation in Washington over settlement issue: Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman told US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Wednesday evening that Israel would not freeze the construction of settlements.



"People are born and people die in Judea and Samaria, and the settlements cannot be completely frozen," Lieberman said during a meeting with Clinton in Washington.

 
Opinion
Critical obstacle to peace? / Yoram Ettinger
President Obama wrong to consider 'settlements' an obstacle to peace
Full story

"Our stance is clear. We have understandings with the previous administration on their matter," he added.

Clinton reiterated the stance voiced by President Barack Obama, saying that the United States wanted to see a stop to settlements.


Smiles and clear messages (Photo: Shahar Azran)



The secretary of state stressed in response to Lieberman's claims that there was no written or oral agreement from President Bush's era approved by any American participant. She implied, however, that a compromise could be reached between Israel and the US.



Clinton noted that the process being conducted by special Mideast envoy George Mitchell had only just begun.



"There are a number of critical concerns, many of which overlap in their impact and significance, that will be explored in the coming weeks as Senator Mitchell engages more deeply into the specifics as to where the Israelis and the Palestinians are willing to go together," she said.



Deputy Foreign Minister Daniel Ayalon said earlier Wednesday that "the Americans also want to find a practical and acceptable solution. This debate will take place mostly during the prime minister's meeting with George Mitchell in Paris next week."



Lieberman and Clinton met face-to-face for about half an hour, and were then joined by the Israeli and American delegations for another half-hour meeting defined by both sides as "very good".

 

The secretary of state noted that Israel had several prime ministers – including Ehud Olmert and Ariel Sharon – who changed their views over the years. The State Department was later expected to announce the renewal of the strategic dialogue between Israel and the US.


'Iranians deserve to have their voice heard'

Clinton also referred to the developments in Iran, saying that it was up to the Iranians to determine how they resolve the internal protest over their disputed election.



She clarified that the US would work to resume the dialogue with the new Iranian government as soon as the doubts surrounding the presidential elections are resolved.



Clinton added that a dialogue with the Iranians was an American interest, as well as the interest of "our friends", including Israel.

 

In response to the Iranian accusation that the US was interfering in internal Iranian affair, the secretary of state said that "the people of Iran reserve the right to have their voices heard and their votes counted.



"The outcome of any election should reflect the will of the people and it is for the Iranians to determine how they resolve this internal protest concerning the outcome of the recent election."
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 … 86,00.html


In other words we aren't interested in peace we want land . Cause  Judea and Samaria is giving to us by god. This is a slap in the face for the Obama.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6899|132 and Bush

Lieberman is not our Secretary of State. So he can kiss it.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6404|eXtreme to the maX
The Israelis just want the land, on their terms, and they don't really give a crap about much else.

And from the BBC.
"We really don't have any intention to change the demographic balance in Judea and Samaria [the West Bank]," he said.
So they are still claiming it as theirs, even though its Palestine, no they won't be leaving their illegal settlements any time soon.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-06-18 06:17:34)

Fuck Israel
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6879|SE London

Another big "Fuck you" to the country that donates almost 2% of their entire economy annually.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6835|Long Island, New York
@ OP - Why is it the only thing you ever post is about Israel or Jews?

Kmarion wrote:

Lieberman is not our Secretary of State. So he can kiss it.
^^^
bogo24dk
Member
+26|6804

Poseidon wrote:

@ OP - Why is it the only thing you ever post is about Israel or Jews?

Kmarion wrote:

Lieberman is not our Secretary of State. So he can kiss it.
^^^
You must be one of those who are egar to call me a nazi and a anti Semite. Guess what i don't have anything against jews but i do have something against Zionism who is one of the major problem in the middle east. And when it comes to religions i don't care for any of them. I think all are equally fucked up.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6835|Long Island, New York

bogo24dk wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

@ OP - Why is it the only thing you ever post is about Israel or Jews?

Kmarion wrote:

Lieberman is not our Secretary of State. So he can kiss it.
^^^
You must be one of those who are egar to call me a nazi and a anti Semite. Guess what i don't have anything against jews but i do have something against Zionism who is one of the major problem in the middle east. And when it comes to religions i don't care for any of them. I think all are equally fucked up.
Well, it does kind of make me wonder when it's basically the only thing you post about.

There are other people "suffering" way more than the Palestineans. Why do you care so much about them? Could be that you hate... -gasp- no...couldn't be...

I mean I wouldn't say this about someone like Cam or Braddock, they post about a variety issues. 95% (if not more) of your posts have to do with Israel. It's pretty questionable to say the least.
bogo24dk
Member
+26|6804
Because like any other conflict on this planet. None of them has been so twisted about the facts. The Israeli government and the Zionist goups have done a pretty good job twisting the facts. And when i whant to debate something i debate something which i am interested in and i know great deal about. Like the middle east.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6835|Long Island, New York

bogo24dk wrote:

The Israeli government and the Zionist goups have done a pretty good job twisting the facts.
So has every other government on Earth. Why don't you post about them? Right, wouldn't fit your agenda...okay,
bogo24dk
Member
+26|6804

Poseidon wrote:

bogo24dk wrote:

The Israeli government and the Zionist goups have done a pretty good job twisting the facts.
So has every other government on Earth. Why don't you post about them? Right, wouldn't fit your agenda...okay,
Well give me one example of a government twisting facts like the Israeli government. There is no doubt what's going on in darfur, tibet, chechnia, columbia and so on.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6835|Long Island, New York

bogo24dk wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

bogo24dk wrote:

The Israeli government and the Zionist goups have done a pretty good job twisting the facts.
So has every other government on Earth. Why don't you post about them? Right, wouldn't fit your agenda...okay,
Well give me one example of a government twisting facts like the Israeli government. There is no doubt what's going on in darfur, tibet, chechnia, columbia and so on.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/06 … index.html
http://blogs.computerworld.com/youtube_ … k_beatings
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/ma … nya.russia

Just a few examples.

But even REGARDLESS of this, places like Tibet and Darfur have either worse or equivilent situations. Yet I don't think I've ever seen you posting about them. Ever.

I wonder why...
bogo24dk
Member
+26|6804

Poseidon wrote:

bogo24dk wrote:

Poseidon wrote:


So has every other government on Earth. Why don't you post about them? Right, wouldn't fit your agenda...okay,
Well give me one example of a government twisting facts like the Israeli government. There is no doubt what's going on in darfur, tibet, chechnia, columbia and so on.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/06 … index.html
http://blogs.computerworld.com/youtube_ … k_beatings
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/ma … nya.russia

Just a few examples.

But even REGARDLESS of this, places like Tibet and Darfur have either worse or equivilent situations. Yet I don't think I've ever seen you posting about them. Ever.

I wonder why...
Ohh please. Those small cover ups don't even come close to what going on in Israel and west bank.  I am not going to start comparing every minor detail with you. If you don't like my post then don't read them. I am not forcing you.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6879|SE London

Poseidon wrote:

bogo24dk wrote:

Poseidon wrote:


So has every other government on Earth. Why don't you post about them? Right, wouldn't fit your agenda...okay,
Well give me one example of a government twisting facts like the Israeli government. There is no doubt what's going on in darfur, tibet, chechnia, columbia and so on.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/06 … index.html
http://blogs.computerworld.com/youtube_ … k_beatings
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/ma … nya.russia

Just a few examples.

But even REGARDLESS of this, places like Tibet and Darfur have either worse or equivilent situations. Yet I don't think I've ever seen you posting about them. Ever.

I wonder why...
I think the big deal with Israel is that they're supposed to be a sensible, developed, 1st world nation. That's how they want to be treated. But that's not how they act.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6835|Long Island, New York

bogo24dk wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

bogo24dk wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

So has every other government on Earth. Why don't you post about them? Right, wouldn't fit your agenda...okay,
Well give me one example of a government twisting facts like the Israeli government. There is no doubt what's going on in darfur, tibet, chechnia, columbia and so on.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/06 … index.html
http://blogs.computerworld.com/youtube_ … k_beatings
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/ma … nya.russia

Just a few examples.

But even REGARDLESS of this, places like Tibet and Darfur have either worse or equivilent situations. Yet I don't think I've ever seen you posting about them. Ever.

I wonder why...
Ohh please. Those small cover ups don't even come close to what going on in Israel and west bank.  I am not going to start comparing every minor detail with you. If you don't like my post then don't read them. I am not forcing you.
No no, I like reading them. Because most of the time it's never really even your opinion, it's just copied and pasted articles. So it's just slightly amusing to point out the obvious, as I'm doing here.

Bertster7 wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

bogo24dk wrote:


Well give me one example of a government twisting facts like the Israeli government. There is no doubt what's going on in darfur, tibet, chechnia, columbia and so on.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/06 … index.html
http://blogs.computerworld.com/youtube_ … k_beatings
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/ma … nya.russia

Just a few examples.

But even REGARDLESS of this, places like Tibet and Darfur have either worse or equivilent situations. Yet I don't think I've ever seen you posting about them. Ever.

I wonder why...
I think the big deal with Israel is that they're supposed to be a sensible, developed, 1st world nation. That's how they want to be treated. But that's not how they act.
Does any country nowadays act sensible when dealing with hostile people?
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6879|SE London

Poseidon wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Poseidon wrote:


http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/06 … index.html
http://blogs.computerworld.com/youtube_ … k_beatings
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/ma … nya.russia

Just a few examples.

But even REGARDLESS of this, places like Tibet and Darfur have either worse or equivilent situations. Yet I don't think I've ever seen you posting about them. Ever.

I wonder why...
I think the big deal with Israel is that they're supposed to be a sensible, developed, 1st world nation. That's how they want to be treated. But that's not how they act.
Does any country nowadays act sensible when dealing with hostile people?
What?

Yes, they do. Can you name any developed countries who have; illegally annexed territory (the illegal side is a bit redundant, since all annexation is illegal these days), built settlements on foreign territory, an apartheid system in place, bombed numerous UN facilities without reprisal, had terrorists in government, had more UN resolutions against them than any other nation, had more than 40 security council resolutions vetoed by the US (all where the US was the only opposing vote)?

That's even before getting on to their dubious conduct in conflicts, bombing campaigns in dense civilian areas targeting civilian infrastructure, use of WP on civilians, torturing of children (according to reports from UN teams on the ground), illegal detainment, shooting of civilians by security services (it's not uncommon for around 50% of those shot dead by the IDF to later be found not to be fighters or posing any threat - which I think is a worrying figure, especially when 25% of those are children), demolition of Palestinian homes and suchlike. All in all it's a very condemning picture and there are no other developed countries doing similar stuff.

The fact that so much of this happens, so regularly and is reported by reputable and credible international observers is very damning. It's also without parallel in the developed world.

Other countries may occasionally overstep the mark in response to hostilities, but it pales in comparison.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6835|Long Island, New York
Domestically, Israel is developed. When it comes to foreign relations...not so much. I'm not really disagreeing. I'm just saying they're not the only one to act non sensibly with hostiles. The US is guilty of it as well. So is Britain.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7014

Bertster7 wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:


I think the big deal with Israel is that they're supposed to be a sensible, developed, 1st world nation. That's how they want to be treated. But that's not how they act.
Does any country nowadays act sensible when dealing with hostile people?
What?

Yes, they do. Can you name any developed countries who have; illegally annexed territory (the illegal side is a bit redundant, since all annexation is illegal these days), built settlements on foreign territory, an apartheid system in place, bombed numerous UN facilities without reprisal, had terrorists in government, had more UN resolutions against them than any other nation, had more than 40 security council resolutions vetoed by the US (all where the US was the only opposing vote)?

That's even before getting on to their dubious conduct in conflicts, bombing campaigns in dense civilian areas targeting civilian infrastructure, use of WP on civilians, torturing of children (according to reports from UN teams on the ground), illegal detainment, shooting of civilians by security services (it's not uncommon for around 50% of those shot dead by the IDF to later be found not to be fighters or posing any threat - which I think is a worrying figure, especially when 25% of those are children), demolition of Palestinian homes and suchlike. All in all it's a very condemning picture and there are no other developed countries doing similar stuff.

The fact that so much of this happens, so regularly and is reported by reputable and credible international observers is very damning. It's also without parallel in the developed world.

Other countries may occasionally overstep the mark in response to hostilities, but it pales in comparison.
If Mexico started lobbing fireworks into San Diego or El Paso, you bet your ass they'd get fucked over.

Well with jolly old England, if the Irish started bombing resturants and pubs in down town London... We all know what would happen. Jews have been persecuted for centuries, don't you think they'll get really protective or will start arming up whenever someone yells lets gas the Jews or even wait for the real holocaust?
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6879|SE London

Cybargs wrote:

If Mexico started lobbing fireworks into San Diego or El Paso, you bet your ass they'd get fucked over.

Well with jolly old England, if the Irish started bombing resturants and pubs in down town London... We all know what would happen. Jews have been persecuted for centuries, don't you think they'll get really protective or will start arming up whenever someone yells lets gas the Jews or even wait for the real holocaust?
I expect the US would invade (were it government sanctioned), depose the government and gradually let them get back to ruling themselves. I don't think they'd annex Mexico and build settlements there. I think it'd be much like the invasion of Iraq, except it'd make sense.

If it was done by a terrorist group acting independently of the government I think the US would demand they be involved in (or more likely lead) an operation to bring the terrorists to justice.


With regards to England, have you never heard of the IRA?

There was some degree of military brutality in Northern Ireland, but again, it pales in comparison to what the Palestinians have been going through.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-06-18 11:30:28)

Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7014

Bertster7 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

If Mexico started lobbing fireworks into San Diego or El Paso, you bet your ass they'd get fucked over.

Well with jolly old England, if the Irish started bombing resturants and pubs in down town London... We all know what would happen. Jews have been persecuted for centuries, don't you think they'll get really protective or will start arming up whenever someone yells lets gas the Jews or even wait for the real holocaust?
With regards to England, have you never heard of the IRA?
That's why I kinda made the parallel with the Irish. Never heard of them doing bombings in London though... Only around Northern Ireland.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6879|SE London

Cybargs wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

If Mexico started lobbing fireworks into San Diego or El Paso, you bet your ass they'd get fucked over.

Well with jolly old England, if the Irish started bombing resturants and pubs in down town London... We all know what would happen. Jews have been persecuted for centuries, don't you think they'll get really protective or will start arming up whenever someone yells lets gas the Jews or even wait for the real holocaust?
With regards to England, have you never heard of the IRA?
That's why I kinda made the parallel with the Irish. Never heard of them doing bombings in London though... Only around Northern Ireland.
There have been almost 500 IRA attacks in England. Dozens and dozens of those were in London. Hundreds were killed and thousands injured.

Kind of turns your point on its head.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6703|North Carolina

Poseidon wrote:

Domestically, Israel is developed. When it comes to foreign relations...not so much. I'm not really disagreeing. I'm just saying they're not the only one to act non sensibly with hostiles. The US is guilty of it as well. So is Britain.
I think one of the main reasons why Israel gets a lot of attention here and elsewhere is because we're close allies with them despite their behavior toward Palestinians.

Therefore, it opens up more possibilities for discussion and debate on a predominantly American forum.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6404|eXtreme to the maX

Cybargs wrote:

That's why I kinda made the parallel with the Irish. Never heard of them doing bombings in London though... Only around Northern Ireland.
Suggest reading up then.
Fuck Israel
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6919|London, England

Cybargs wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

If Mexico started lobbing fireworks into San Diego or El Paso, you bet your ass they'd get fucked over.

Well with jolly old England, if the Irish started bombing resturants and pubs in down town London... We all know what would happen. Jews have been persecuted for centuries, don't you think they'll get really protective or will start arming up whenever someone yells lets gas the Jews or even wait for the real holocaust?
With regards to England, have you never heard of the IRA?
That's why I kinda made the parallel with the Irish. Never heard of them doing bombings in London though... Only around Northern Ireland.
Mr "not really an Asian I don't like to be called Asian stop calling me Asian" - Do a little more research on the IRA and The Troubles in general

Anyway I don't see why Israel has to go and build settlements there, sure it's the Palestinians who are perhaps the more morally questionable, but that doesn't mean that Israel can then do whatever they want. This shit has to be a two way street. One thing I've realised is that the die hard pro-Israeli people are much less balanced than others. They refuse to see shit in any other way than Israel being the mighty holy force surrounded by pure unadulterated evil. No country is perfect or like that, especially not Israel.

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-06-19 04:07:48)

ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6947

Lieberman is such a douchenozzle.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6853
Israel to America: 'Can I still haz mony tho?'

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