you literally couldn't fly low or you would get tracered. Boring, unfun, and rewards bad players.
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First. Don't fly low if you don't want to get shot down.Lucien wrote:
you literally couldn't fly low or you would get tracered. Boring, unfun, and rewards bad players.
And so, your idea of balance is, heli's have free reign of the map unless you can gather a team of coordinated players who can survive long enough to take you down with mounted guns or get lucky with unguided rockets. And aircraft can only be countered by an equally skilled enemy pilot. That's definitely fun for the other 62 other players.
On BC2, skilled pilots do still fly low and dominate. Just not the crazy k/d you had with Bf2.
I never said BF2 aircraft was balanced, don't go all galt on me. Ground forces need to be able to defend themselves, sure, but not have a "press 1 to kill enemy" weapon.
Go play CoDBlade4509 wrote:
This is good.Lucien wrote:
Aircraft will be useless.
IO was not strictly because of jets. Mattter of fact, I bet it was more heli domination than jet domination. For a map like karkand, it was tank domination. Some people just didn't like playing with things better than infantry. I didn't mind switching to spec ops or anti tank to take those punks out.JohnG@lt wrote:
The imbalanced jets in BF2 were why so many people played I/O. "lol at I/O" or whatever but the fact remains that most times a map like Wake was fun for exactly one person out of 64.jord wrote:
Of course, that's how it should be. Air vehicles at the top of the food chain.
What's the point in having a jet on your team if some nob on the enemy team can select a class with stinger and take you down with little effort?
Vehicles make the bf series.
I think adjusting flares and perhaps needing to land to refuel/repair/rearm is all that is needed. Also, there were plenty of non-IO servers to play on.Rod Foxx wrote:
But if air vehicles are the same as BF2 and there is no reasonable counter then many people will end up requesting and flocking to an IO mode just like in BF2.
Totally agree about jet solutions.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Multiple things could and should have been implemented:
1) Forced landing to reload and add a risk factor and a reprieve from bombing spam for ground pounders.
2) Increased delay between usage of flares OR (preferably) give flare deployment an ammo count.
And while I'm on the subject, vehicle MG's and smoke deployment could have used an ammo count, and the APC could have used more useful side and rear guns. Those things shot like BB's or something.
APC had great rear/side guns (though limited range of vision), just the same as the other .50 cals. Just the sound was different.
But in real life, there are plenty of "press 1 to kill enemy vehicles" weapons. Stingers and Javelins for example. Which is why in real life, choppers get shot down if they get too close. And aircraft get shot down if AA is not destroyed first. A real blackhawk can rain down hell on earth and kill hundreds. But if you miss that hidden stinger guy, you are dead meat.Lucien wrote:
I never said BF2 aircraft was balanced, don't go all galt on me. Ground forces need to be able to defend themselves, sure, but not have a "press 1 to kill enemy" weapon.
in real life you can't rocketjump
didn't make quake 3 less good
didn't make quake 3 less good
Even if this game isn't mod friendly, I think the PR team could still make a mod. I can dream, fuck you guys.Adams_BJ wrote:
I think that's the second time he's mentioned PR making a mod.Jaekus wrote:
Have you even read anything at all about this game?iceman785 wrote:
Maybe PR could make some use out of that, that mod would be awsome with even just 128 people.
Given the technology utilized on Quake 3, why not in real life?Lucien wrote:
in real life you can't rocketjump
didn't make quake 3 less good
Exactly. An Apache can be brought down with an AK or rpg. Pilots stay miles away from their targets and zoom in with optics.Ilocano wrote:
But in real life, there are plenty of "press 1 to kill enemy vehicles" weapons. Stingers and Javelins for example. Which is why in real life, choppers get shot down if they get too close. And aircraft get shot down if AA is not destroyed first. A real blackhawk can rain down hell on earth and kill hundreds. But if you miss that hidden stinger guy, you are dead meat.Lucien wrote:
I never said BF2 aircraft was balanced, don't go all galt on me. Ground forces need to be able to defend themselves, sure, but not have a "press 1 to kill enemy" weapon.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
"Black Hawk Down" wasnt just a fancy movie based on fiction.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
But they sure damn owned on the ground, IO style.JohnG@lt wrote:
"Black Hawk Down" wasnt just a fancy movie based on fiction.
I do think it would be cool to be more like Arma2 in that you can shoot down helis with your assault rifles or machine guns. Especially if you target more critical components of the aircraft.JohnG@lt wrote:
Exactly. An Apache can be brought down with an AK or rpg. Pilots stay miles away from their targets and zoom in with optics.Ilocano wrote:
But in real life, there are plenty of "press 1 to kill enemy vehicles" weapons. Stingers and Javelins for example. Which is why in real life, choppers get shot down if they get too close. And aircraft get shot down if AA is not destroyed first. A real blackhawk can rain down hell on earth and kill hundreds. But if you miss that hidden stinger guy, you are dead meat.Lucien wrote:
I never said BF2 aircraft was balanced, don't go all galt on me. Ground forces need to be able to defend themselves, sure, but not have a "press 1 to kill enemy" weapon.
But there does not need to be CLASS with an autlock on stinger that can take out a jet, heli, or tank in one shot. That's just bad for balance.
wah wah QQ wah wahLucien wrote:
BC2's tracers were a load of shit, either you got smoke or you flew high, any dunce with a tracer gun can hit you easily if you get close
not a fun mechanic
I'm really good with tracers but if someone has smoke, I can't do shit about it.
What do you want, an invincible heli? Like the MEC chopper on Sharqi?
I've already said EXACTLY what I want. Twice.
So tracers aren't very good, are they? either pilots get smoke and you can't do shit but AA/vehicles/other helicopters get the advantage, or they don't get smoke and then you kill them. rock paper scissors game design
So tracers aren't very good, are they? either pilots get smoke and you can't do shit but AA/vehicles/other helicopters get the advantage, or they don't get smoke and then you kill them. rock paper scissors game design
Last edited by Lucien (2011-03-10 15:10:25)
Yeah, because the killing potential of a good pilot and gunner is equal to an Engineer and his Assault team mate tracing and keeping him well stocked. It is not rock paper scissor. Someone on the ground doing grieveous damage to your heli? Fly away and repair. Heli shredding your Bradley or tank, well, fly away to repair too. Wait...Lucien wrote:
I've already said EXACTLY what I want. Twice.
So tracers aren't very good, are they? either pilots get smoke and you can't do shit but AA/vehicles/other helicopters get the advantage, or they don't get smoke and then you kill them. rock paper scissors game design
Come on. You of all people know how powerful heli's are in the hands of an expert. Is getting shot down maybe once, twice, or even three times bad when you've already racked up at least a 10/1 k/d?
Despite terrible imbalances sitting in an F-35 on wake bombing the airstrip and stratorunning away was extremely satisfying. The sheer butthurt that came especially from the J-10 whores if they couldn't catch you, I loved it.
Choppers were simply rape machines. There was no way you could down a good chopper without an even better jet pilot on your team. BC2 was a whole lot more balanced, and, if you fly properly, you can still survive for almost the entire map and top the scores in a chopper.
I don't see what's wrong in toning down jets to the same level.
Choppers were simply rape machines. There was no way you could down a good chopper without an even better jet pilot on your team. BC2 was a whole lot more balanced, and, if you fly properly, you can still survive for almost the entire map and top the scores in a chopper.
I don't see what's wrong in toning down jets to the same level.
inane little opines
There's a special place in hell for the people who raped vehicle spawns.
The only way you _cant_ kill a chopper with a jet is if you can't find the damn thing. The best chopper pilots somehow sneaked around the entire map without me (while playing jet) knowing where they were. Of course crap team mates not communicating is a big factor too.dayarath wrote:
Despite terrible imbalances sitting in an F-35 on wake bombing the airstrip and stratorunning away was extremely satisfying. The sheer butthurt that came especially from the J-10 whores if they couldn't catch you, I loved it.
Choppers were simply rape machines. There was no way you could down a good chopper without an even better jet pilot on your team. BC2 was a whole lot more balanced, and, if you fly properly, you can still survive for almost the entire map and top the scores in a chopper.
I don't see what's wrong in toning down jets to the same level.
That's why I prefered servers with admins and rules against attacking uncaps.Finray wrote:
There's a special place in hell for the people who raped vehicle spawns.
So you preferred a server with spineless assholes. If you ddidn't like getting base raped then why didn't you people just leave the server, it's what I did. Much simpler solution then bitching about being raped all the time.Buckiller wrote:
The only way you _cant_ kill a chopper with a jet is if you can't find the damn thing. The best chopper pilots somehow sneaked around the entire map without me (while playing jet) knowing where they were. Of course crap team mates not communicating is a big factor too.dayarath wrote:
Despite terrible imbalances sitting in an F-35 on wake bombing the airstrip and stratorunning away was extremely satisfying. The sheer butthurt that came especially from the J-10 whores if they couldn't catch you, I loved it.
Choppers were simply rape machines. There was no way you could down a good chopper without an even better jet pilot on your team. BC2 was a whole lot more balanced, and, if you fly properly, you can still survive for almost the entire map and top the scores in a chopper.
I don't see what's wrong in toning down jets to the same level.That's why I prefered servers with admins and rules against attacking uncaps.Finray wrote:
There's a special place in hell for the people who raped vehicle spawns.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
Geez, I can't believe I have to explain this...Lucien wrote:
I've already said EXACTLY what I want. Twice.
So tracers aren't very good, are they? either pilots get smoke and you can't do shit but AA/vehicles/other helicopters get the advantage, or they don't get smoke and then you kill them. rock paper scissors game design
If the pilot equips the smoke ability, then the gunner can equip any other abilities and you get both. Pretty simple really.
Just give the Engineer class (assuming we're going with BFBC2 style here) the option between AT or Mines or MANPAD, keep the number of missiles for the MANPAD down (say 2-3) and make a hit take like 80% of the health. Give the bases a stationary ZSU 23 or VADS, and if you are all afraid of base raping give the mains some serious firepower ( say like computer controlled SA-2's and Hawk missiles, sure they're obsolete, but make em a one hit kill, rather poor accuracy, because it does suck, and your set). Throw in a mobile AA (number per map depends on game and map design, but don't over do it). And landing planes to rearm? Gimme a fucking break. Planes would be useless and relegated to the role of transport to a far off flag.
You guys are living in this fantasy world where somehow there will be a game which magically forces teamwork and is perfectly balanced(in your opinion). No game can be perfectly balanced, vehicle whores want vehicles more powerful, infantry whores want vehicles really weak, BFBC2 had a pretty damn good balance, in fact, I'd say it was the best I've ever played. Anyone with mediocre skill could do alright with anything but chopper. You want teamwork, go join the fucking Army or something.
And for anyone who would like to call me a vehicle whore, yes, I guess I am, but thats because this is BATTLEFIELD, this game is about the VEHICLES. When I wanted to play a game for the infantry, I'd go and play CoD or something where the hit detection didn't suck.
You guys are living in this fantasy world where somehow there will be a game which magically forces teamwork and is perfectly balanced(in your opinion). No game can be perfectly balanced, vehicle whores want vehicles more powerful, infantry whores want vehicles really weak, BFBC2 had a pretty damn good balance, in fact, I'd say it was the best I've ever played. Anyone with mediocre skill could do alright with anything but chopper. You want teamwork, go join the fucking Army or something.
And for anyone who would like to call me a vehicle whore, yes, I guess I am, but thats because this is BATTLEFIELD, this game is about the VEHICLES. When I wanted to play a game for the infantry, I'd go and play CoD or something where the hit detection didn't suck.
Last edited by Commie Killer (2011-03-10 16:50:44)
Anyway, talk about tracers should be left to BC2, not BF3.
I agree 100% with ya.Commie Killer wrote:
Just give the Engineer class (assuming we're going with BFBC2 style here) the option between AT or Mines or MANPAD, keep the number of missiles for the MANPAD down (say 2-3) and make a hit take like 80% of the health. Give the bases a stationary ZSU 23 or VADS, and if you are all afraid of base raping give the mains some serious firepower ( say like computer controlled SA-2's and Hawk missiles, sure they're obsolete, but make em a one hit kill, rather poor accuracy, because it does suck, and your set). Throw in a mobile AA (number per map depends on game and map design, but don't over do it). And landing planes to rearm? Gimme a fucking break. Planes would be useless and relegated to the role of transport to a far off flag.
You guys are living in this fantasy world where somehow there will be a game which magically forces teamwork and is perfectly balanced(in your opinion). No game can be perfectly balanced, vehicle whores want vehicles more powerful, infantry whores want vehicles really weak, BFBC2 had a pretty damn good balance, in fact, I'd say it was the best I've ever played. Anyone with mediocre skill could do alright with anything but chopper. You want teamwork, go join the fucking Army or something.
And for anyone who would like to call me a vehicle whore, yes, I guess I am, but thats because this is BATTLEFIELD, this game is about the VEHICLES. When I wanted to play a game for the infantry, I'd go and play CoD or something where the hit detection didn't suck.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Yes, Battlefield is about vehicles. But will there be 64 jets or attack helicopters on Wake? 64 armored vehicles on Karkand?Commie Killer wrote:
Just give the Engineer class (assuming we're going with BFBC2 style here) the option between AT or Mines or MANPAD, keep the number of missiles for the MANPAD down (say 2-3) and make a hit take like 80% of the health. Give the bases a stationary ZSU 23 or VADS, and if you are all afraid of base raping give the mains some serious firepower ( say like computer controlled SA-2's and Hawk missiles, sure they're obsolete, but make em a one hit kill, rather poor accuracy, because it does suck, and your set). Throw in a mobile AA (number per map depends on game and map design, but don't over do it). And landing planes to rearm? Gimme a fucking break. Planes would be useless and relegated to the role of transport to a far off flag.
You guys are living in this fantasy world where somehow there will be a game which magically forces teamwork and is perfectly balanced(in your opinion). No game can be perfectly balanced, vehicle whores want vehicles more powerful, infantry whores want vehicles really weak, BFBC2 had a pretty damn good balance, in fact, I'd say it was the best I've ever played. Anyone with mediocre skill could do alright with anything but chopper. You want teamwork, go join the fucking Army or something.
And for anyone who would like to call me a vehicle whore, yes, I guess I am, but thats because this is BATTLEFIELD, this game is about the VEHICLES. When I wanted to play a game for the infantry, I'd go and play CoD or something where the hit detection didn't suck.
Teamwork you say. How much teamwork does it take for a Cobra to capture an occupied Wake flag? How much teamwork would it take to defend that flag from that cobra? More teamwork than the two guys on the cobra.
I like luciens idea.
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