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2009-06-12 06:42:19
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6404|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

Saying you want to shoot someone--whether you have a gun or not--is not an arrestable offense.
It can be
Threatening behaviour
Threats to kill
Both specific arrestable offences in the UK.

In Australia
Saying "I want to kill you" is an arrestable offense.
Saying "I want to kill you and I have a gun" is a more serious offense, whether or not you have a gun.
Say "I don't like you, BTW I have a gun" and the Police will be round smartish.

Next time you're on a commercial flight mention to the stewardess "I'd like to put a bullet between the pilot's eyes".
Sit back and enjoy the fun. Pretty sure you'll be proven wrong.
Fuck Israel
2009-06-12 06:45:22
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6879|SE London

Dilbert_X wrote:

Then try writing "I want to kill you" and sending it to the Prime Minister and see what happens.
Extreme example.

Something might happen. But you're not going to get convicted over it.

The difference between expressing a desire to kill someone and threatening to kill someone is probably of more importance than you're making out.
2009-06-12 06:47:02
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6404|eXtreme to the maX
There is a difference, depends on the context too. Either can be arrestable and convictable offences depending on the circumstances.
Fuck Israel
2009-06-12 07:06:58
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6709|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Saying you want to shoot someone--whether you have a gun or not--is not an arrestable offense.
It can be
Threatening behaviour
Threats to kill
Both specific arrestable offences in the UK.

In Australia
Saying "I want to kill you" is an arrestable offense.
Saying "I want to kill you and I have a gun" is a more serious offense, whether or not you have a gun.
Say "I don't like you, BTW I have a gun" and the Police will be round smartish.

Next time you're on a commercial flight mention to the stewardess "I'd like to put a bullet between the pilot's eyes".
Sit back and enjoy the fun. Pretty sure you'll be proven wrong.
Ah now you're getting far more specific. Yes, if I said I wanted to shoot one of the flight crew, that's a different story. Saying you have a gun is also a different story. I never said anything about telling someone you have a gun.

Just saying "I'd like to shoot (some random person)" is not arrestable.

I find it hard to believe that saying "I want to kill you" absent any other action is an arrestable offense. If it is, Australia's civil liberties are fairly curtailed.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2009-06-12 07:19:03
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6404|eXtreme to the maX
Saying "I want to kill you" in most countries, in circumstances where the victim believes the person could be serious, or where a third party believes the person could be serious, is an arrestable offence.
Not sure why I'd want the 'civil liberty' to go around threatening people.
Saying "I'd like to shoot X" could well be arrestable, pretty sure it is.

FEOS wrote:

Saying you want to shoot someone--whether you have a gun or not--is not an arrestable offense.
Yes, if I said I wanted to shoot one of the flight crew, that's a different story.
So it can be an arrestable offence, absent any other action, thats just one example.
Try it on a Police officer, judge, school-teacher, bank teller etc.
Pretty sure you'll find you're wrong.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-06-12 07:20:10)

Fuck Israel
2009-06-12 07:27:07
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6709|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Saying "I want to kill you" in most countries, in circumstances where the victim believes the person could be serious, or where a third party believes the person could be serious, is an arrestable offence.
Not sure why I'd want the 'civil liberty' to go around threatening people.
Saying "I'd like to shoot X" could well be arrestable, pretty sure it is.
No. It's not.

It's stupid, but it's not arrestable.

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Saying you want to shoot someone--whether you have a gun or not--is not an arrestable offense.
Yes, if I said I wanted to shoot one of the flight crew, that's a different story.
So it can be an arrestable offence, absent any other action, thats just one example.
Try it on a Police officer, judge, school-teacher, bank teller etc.
Pretty sure you'll find you're wrong.
But that example is not absent any other circumstance. You are saying you want to injure one of the flight crew. That is another circumstance.

I could tell a police officer right now I'd like to shoot him. If I don't have a gun, it's nothing. If I have one, it's at least assault. See the distinction?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2009-06-12 07:36:53
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6404|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

It's stupid, but it's not arrestable.
In the UK and Australia it is, if the person believes your intention is that they should believe you are serious, whether or not they actually believe you are likely to carry it out. Its legally tricky.

FEOS wrote:

But that example is not absent any other circumstance.
You said absent any other action 'I find it hard to believe that saying "I want to kill you" absent any other action is an arrestable offense.'
There is one example of a threat absent any other action which would be thoroughly arrestable.

I could tell a police officer right now I'd like to shoot him. If I don't have a gun, it's nothing. If I have one, it's at least assault. See the distinction?
I see the distinction, US and UK law are different.

Bottom line is don't make any threats, serious or not.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-06-12 07:38:45)

Fuck Israel
2009-06-12 07:38:47
Karbin
Member
+42|6592

Dilbert_X wrote:

Saying "I want to kill you" in most countries, in circumstances where the victim believes the person could be serious, or where a third party believes the person could be serious, is an arrestable offence.
Not sure why I'd want the 'civil liberty' to go around threatening people.
Saying "I'd like to shoot X" could well be arrestable, pretty sure it is.

FEOS wrote:

Saying you want to shoot someone--whether you have a gun or not--is not an arrestable offense.
Yes, if I said I wanted to shoot one of the flight crew, that's a different story.
So it can be an arrestable offence, absent any other action, thats just one example.
Try it on a Police officer, judge, school-teacher, bank teller etc.
Pretty sure you'll find you're wrong.
Here in Kannuckastan it is arrestable.
The charge is "Threating Death". It will get you 1 to 5, depending on the level of threat. Say it to a cop, if you have so much as a stick in your hand.....   bang bang.

Say it with nothing in our hand and you still CAN get a year.
2009-06-12 07:39:08
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6709|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

It's stupid, but it's not arrestable.
In the UK and Australia it is, if the person believes your intention is that they should believe you are serious, whether or not they actually believe you are likely to carry it out. Its legally tricky.
So you can be arrested in the UK and Australia because someone THINKS you pose a threat to them?

YGBSM.

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

But that example is not absent any other circumstance.
You said absent any other action 'I find it hard to believe that saying "I want to kill you" absent any other action is an arrestable offense.'
There is one example of a threat absent any other action which would be thoroughly arrestable.

Bottom line is don't make any threats, serious or not.
But the situation you described isn't "absent any other action". The "other action" is specifically threatening a flight crew member while on board an aircraft. If you said (on the aircraft) "I'd like to shoot Jim", nobody would say or do anything.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2009-06-12 07:44:34
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6404|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

So you can be arrested in the UK and Australia because someone THINKS you pose a threat to them?
If you make a clear threat yes, just for making a threat - Conduct likely to cause a breach of the peace, breach of the peace, threatening behaviour for example.
If they believe you intended them to believe you are serious, more so - Theats to kill.
If you mention guns even more so - Can't remember the exact offence.
The "other action" is specifically threatening a flight crew member while on board an aircraft.
Thats not an action on your part, thats a circumstance.
If you said (on the aircraft) "I'd like to shoot Jim", nobody would say or do anything.
Suggest you try it and see how you get on.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-06-12 07:47:57)

Fuck Israel
2009-06-13 12:31:39
TravisC555
Member
+118|6517|Cox Convention Center, OK
The OHP has released the dashcam video of this incident late friday.

Don't know how to embed the video since it is not youtube, but here is the link where the video is

http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-highway- … tory_photo
2009-06-13 13:48:48
blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6943
UPDATE ON THE STORY

MT Maurice White says he is, in a way, glad that the scuffle with the Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper happened because it means problems will be addressed and dealt with.  He also tells The News On 6 he is looking for accountability from the OHP.

"This situation can never happen again," said Maurice White.

Maurice White doesn't want to see anyone else in the position he was in at the business end of a choke-hold from Oklahoma Highway Patrol Trooper Daniel Martin. "Whatever we have to make sure that that never occurs again and that some definitive light is shed on the problems with the OHP, we will go forward and do it whatever that takes," said Maurice White.White says even when flattened against his ambulance, he was worried about the patient in the back.  It was a woman suffering from possible heat exhaustion whom he and his partner were taking to a hospital.
"The word that comes to mind is absolute torture for a mother to be strapped to a gurney with an IV, an EKG and oxygen cannot move and she is hearing her family members scream outside that had to be torture.  She did not deserve that," said White.

"Never in my lifetime have I seen that kind of focused rage before," said Maurice White.  "If a trooper behaves that way with a fellow professional and a professional who is transporting a patient with chest pain how does that trooper handle other situations?"

White also wants to see OHP's dashcam video.  It is the video the patrol has refused to release after first saying it showed the paramedics starting the scuffle.

"The dashcam video will show his state of rage when he exited his vehicle to speak to my driver.  It will show his total disregard for the patient when he was informed we were transporting a patient and when it was asked if we could take this up at the hospital, it will show his total disregard.  And, it will show a trooper at that moment who was totally out of control," said White.
source
2009-06-13 13:58:49
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6292|Truthistan

FEOS wrote:

dyk wrote:

So when I say the DA is hick, the cop was a hick its because of the fact that no charges would be laid. I mean its only understandable given the great relationship the state cops and state functionaries have with Tribal Nations. /sarcasm
I don't know if you noticed, but the guy who got choked wasn't an Indian, therefore he wasn't a member of the Creek Nation. So your logic fails here as well.

dyk wrote:

So personally I don't give a shit if you cousin Bob or uncle Neal is a philanthropist who passes out dildos to orphans, the state cops have a lot to make up for their past transgressions against the people from tribal nations, and its a smear that comes with putting on the uniform. If the other cops had any integrity they would have arrested that asshole cop on the spot when he claimed he wanted to shoot the ems guy or when he choked the ems guy. The cop on the scene didn't arrest him and the cops at the hospital wouldn't even take a statement concerning the cops actions... I guess there is no rule of law when it comes to dealing with Indians.
You know fuckall about reality in OK. Indians are generally treated with kid gloves because of societal guilt regarding how their people were treated in the past. Some take advantage of that. Most do not. Some non-Indians have a problem with that. Most do not.

Poor judgment all around, tbh.
Agreed Poor judgment by everyone except the family members, and what's most important in this case is how the cop wronged the patient in the ambulance.

I wouldn't say Indians are treated with kid gloves by the cops and I don't where you're getting that BS from because it certainly isn't reality... in fact its usually the opposite and this little hothead John Wayne cop proves it.

BTW how do you know that the EMT wasn't a citizen of the tribal nation, you are assuming that because of the color of his skin right? because the family members of the patient were also black too. FYI there are lots of Indians out there with black blood. I can't say for certain if he was a citizen of the creek nation, I haven't checked, but I assume it because Tribal Nations try to hire their own citizens where ever possible. Its also possible that the other EMT was also an Indian. In any respect, the ambulance was clearly marked as being the ambulance from the Creek Nation SO NO my logic isn't flawed, you just don't like the hear the truth. The Cop in this case is a faggy Indian hating POS with tiny hands and a tiny dick.

IMO the cop saw that the ambulance was from the Creek nation and decided to hassled them. The fact that the whole incident seemed to escalate over nothing leads me to couple of theories
1. there must be some bad blood between the Creek Nation and this particular officer or between the Creek nation and all state cops. The fact that the DA wants to sweep this under the rug will no doubt keep the bad blood alive.
2. this particular cop hates Indians, and I bet there are more than a few other people in OK like that too.

I painted all the cops with a broad brush in this instance because at the hospital the EMT actually went up to other cops to file a complaint and they stood around and wouldn't even take a complaint against the dick head officer... its not their job to stone wall a complaint against a fellow officer so they must have been protecting him... so they are all hicks dicks and those guys should be disciplined too. Its too bad that cops want to live in a reality where there is no accountability for their actions and idiots in the citizenry say "duhhhh Okkie Dokies."

I just watched the released dash cam video --> the cop should be fired, and all other OHP should hang their heads in shame and call for his firing. and you have to wonder if this had been a rich white family or a black NFL player if the cop wouldn't have already been fired. The way Indians get treated I bet the fucker gets a promotion.

Here's What Should Happen


Like I said I hope the family sues his ass off.
2009-06-14 03:26:32
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6404|eXtreme to the maX
Having seen the dashcam:
What we have here is an ignorant redneck who enjoys abusing his authority and pushing people around.

oO wrote:

People who want to be policemen are usually horrible power-hungry 4rseholes to start with.
Seems to be correct in this case, he had no reason whatever to go after the ambulance, it pulled over quickly enough, there was no reason to arrest or assault anyone present.
Having just done a blue light run he was probably pumped up on adrenalin and looking for some action - exactly the kind of person you do NOT want as a Police officer if they can't handle that sort of thing.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-06-14 03:27:43)

Fuck Israel
2009-06-14 03:29:37
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6879|SE London

Dilbert_X wrote:

Having seen the dashcam:
What we have here is an ignorant redneck who enjoys abusing his authority and pushing people around.

oO wrote:

People who want to be policemen are usually horrible power-hungry 4rseholes to start with.
Seems to be correct in this case, he had no reason whatever to go after the ambulance, it pulled over quickly enough, there was no reason to arrest or assault anyone present.
Having just done a blue light run he was probably pumped up on adrenalin and looking for some action - exactly the kind of person you do NOT want as a Police officer if they can't handle that sort of thing.
This.

Although I don't agree that "People who want to be policemen are usually horrible power-hungry 4rseholes to start with". (not that Dilbert said that)

Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-06-14 03:30:17)

2009-06-14 03:33:39
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6404|eXtreme to the maX
As stated previously, I don't believe the majority of Police go in to be the big bully with a gun and a badge, but there is a significant proportion who do, like this OHP guy.
Fuck Israel
2009-06-16 21:49:10
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6823|South Florida
Just sticking my head in and saying its bullshit that a cop stopped an ambulance when the ambulance was in an emergency state. Lights flashing, sirens on.

What if that person died because of that?
15 more years! 15 more years!
2009-06-21 13:50:38
Stubbee
Religions Hate Facts, Questions and Doubts
+223|7041|Reality
FULL DASH CAM COVERAGE! Obstructed him MY ASS. The car in front of the ambulance probably pulled over because it heard the cop siren and thought it was the ambulance, so the ambulance went around the car.

Last edited by Stubbee (2009-06-21 13:51:42)

The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'

 

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