Figures.
First rules of EMS you learn.AussieReaper wrote:
I'd have thought ambulances would be above the law in most cases, since driving fast/not yielding results in lives saved.
Plus the drivers know what they are doing. If the cop pulls this guy over, next high speed pursuit he might as well pull over fellow officers.
You gotta make it to the call alive to do any good.
Driving fast with the woo-woos going is a lot of fun, but the vast majority of ambulance involved accidents occur while driving code-3 (lights and sirens).
According to most state laws, an emergency vehicle operating code-3, since it is outside normal traffic restrictions, is assumed automatically and in all cases to be considered 'at fault' in the case of all traffic accinents that occur with the vehicle while travelling code-3. (At least, it is in my state)
No NOT create more patients.
Yes, personnel who drive emergency vehicles receive additional training to drive those vehicles safely in normal and adverse conditions. This does not mean they should drive like a maniac. If anything, you drive with much more care, especially in intersections, around turns, and in adverse conditions. We learn really, REALLY fast that the majority of drivers out there do not see us (flashing lights and all), have their music up too loud to hear us, and don't really care when they do.
In my state, driving code-3 (lights and sirens) only permits you to drive 15mph over the speed limit.
Yes, you CAN be pulled over by the police, even when driving code-3. However, it is a pretty stupid thing to do, since you may have to rely on those people to save your ass eventually. If his fellow cops don't straited him out, his bosses will.
An EMT is much different from being a paramedic. EMT takes about 4 months to earn, a paramedic takes up to 2 years, and in some states is an actual Associate's Degree.
Nice post Imortal. Thanks for the info.imortal wrote:
First rules of EMS you learn.AussieReaper wrote:
I'd have thought ambulances would be above the law in most cases, since driving fast/not yielding results in lives saved.
Plus the drivers know what they are doing. If the cop pulls this guy over, next high speed pursuit he might as well pull over fellow officers.
You gotta make it to the call alive to do any good.
Driving fast with the woo-woos going is a lot of fun, but the vast majority of ambulance involved accidents occur while driving code-3 (lights and sirens).
According to most state laws, an emergency vehicle operating code-3, since it is outside normal traffic restrictions, is assumed automatically and in all cases to be considered 'at fault' in the case of all traffic accinents that occur with the vehicle while travelling code-3. (At least, it is in my state)
No NOT create more patients.
Yes, personnel who drive emergency vehicles receive additional training to drive those vehicles safely in normal and adverse conditions. This does not mean they should drive like a maniac. If anything, you drive with much more care, especially in intersections, around turns, and in adverse conditions. We learn really, REALLY fast that the majority of drivers out there do not see us (flashing lights and all), have their music up too loud to hear us, and don't really care when they do.
In my state, driving code-3 (lights and sirens) only permits you to drive 15mph over the speed limit.
Yes, you CAN be pulled over by the police, even when driving code-3. However, it is a pretty stupid thing to do, since you may have to rely on those people to save your ass eventually. If his fellow cops don't straited him out, his bosses will.
An EMT is much different from being a paramedic. EMT takes about 4 months to earn, a paramedic takes up to 2 years, and in some states is an actual Associate's Degree.
Thanks for the info.
Still, the officer who pulled over the ambulance should have given some lee-way to the guy. As you said, it was a pretty stupid thing to do.
Cops working under high stress environments are bound to make some bad decisions though. This was one of them.
Still, the officer who pulled over the ambulance should have given some lee-way to the guy. As you said, it was a pretty stupid thing to do.
Cops working under high stress environments are bound to make some bad decisions though. This was one of them.
Oklahoma isn't "the south".Diesel_dyk wrote:
What is it about cops in the south? here is another one where someone actually died.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
True, its Indian Country. But the cops were pure southern hick, probably imported from Kansas, Missouri or destinations south. I still can't get over the cops girlie hands trying to choke the big black paramedic, could his hands be any smaller??? If that smallishness carries over to other body parts then that might explain the angry little man syndrome. LOLZ. and I think we'll be hearing more from this guy in the future.FEOS wrote:
Oklahoma isn't "the south".Diesel_dyk wrote:
What is it about cops in the south? here is another one where someone actually died.
Thanks for the info.
The DA isn't even making the cops release the car cam video, hopefully the family will sue all involved since the DA doesn't have a pair to do the right thing.
It appears that choking a black person with your hands in OK. is still O.K.. I wonder if its still O.K. to blow up Indians too and steal their land and oil?
Just when I thought the US police couldn't get any more entertaining in their fuck-ups...
what if it were a heart attack instead of heat exhaustion the patient was suffering from? And she died?
So funny when people who likely have never set foot in a place stereotype the people who live there or are from there.Diesel_dyk wrote:
True, its Indian Country. But the cops were pure southern hick, probably imported from Kansas, Missouri or destinations south. I still can't get over the cops girlie hands trying to choke the big black paramedic, could his hands be any smaller??? If that smallishness carries over to other body parts then that might explain the angry little man syndrome. LOLZ. and I think we'll be hearing more from this guy in the future.FEOS wrote:
Oklahoma isn't "the south".Diesel_dyk wrote:
What is it about cops in the south? here is another one where someone actually died.
Thanks for the info.
The DA isn't even making the cops release the car cam video, hopefully the family will sue all involved since the DA doesn't have a pair to do the right thing.
It appears that choking a black person with your hands in OK. is still O.K.. I wonder if its still O.K. to blow up Indians too and steal their land and oil?
My cousin is an OK state trooper. Yes, he has an accent you could cut with a knife. He also has a degree in electrical engineering and owns his own business with his wife. And cares for a special-needs child as well as contributing philanthropically to his community.
Yep. Just a bunch of redneck hicks out there in Oklahoma.
Reminds me of when I was at basic and some knuckleheads from CA and the east coast were asking if we still had "Indian problems" in OK...seriously. Like Indians raiding villages and shit. Good to see others are still as ass-backwards as those morons were.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
To me Hicks come from hickville which is any place where the good ol'boy network overrides the rule of law. Between the cop and the paramedic someone committed a crime, my bet is the choke hold on the paramedic. And both of these clowns wronged the patient trying to get to the hospital. The fact that the DA is all to willing sweep it under the rug and chalk it up to interagency relations breakdown is ridiculous and smacks of hickville good ol'boy network. I don't care where these stories come from whether its the south, or OK or Montana or Connecticut. You don't need to have an accent to be a hick, all you need is a small town mentality, a healthy appetite for corruption, and a distain for the rule of law.FEOS wrote:
So funny when people who likely have never set foot in a place stereotype the people who live there or are from there.Diesel_dyk wrote:
True, its Indian Country. But the cops were pure southern hick, probably imported from Kansas, Missouri or destinations south. I still can't get over the cops girlie hands trying to choke the big black paramedic, could his hands be any smaller??? If that smallishness carries over to other body parts then that might explain the angry little man syndrome. LOLZ. and I think we'll be hearing more from this guy in the future.FEOS wrote:
Oklahoma isn't "the south".
Thanks for the info.
The DA isn't even making the cops release the car cam video, hopefully the family will sue all involved since the DA doesn't have a pair to do the right thing.
It appears that choking a black person with your hands in OK. is still O.K.. I wonder if its still O.K. to blow up Indians too and steal their land and oil?
My cousin is an OK state trooper. Yes, he has an accent you could cut with a knife. He also has a degree in electrical engineering and owns his own business with his wife. And cares for a special-needs child as well as contributing philanthropically to his community.
Yep. Just a bunch of redneck hicks out there in Oklahoma.
Reminds me of when I was at basic and some knuckleheads from CA and the east coast were asking if we still had "Indian problems" in OK...seriously. Like Indians raiding villages and shit. Good to see others are still as ass-backwards as those morons were.
BTW the stealing of Indian land and oil was pretty wide spread in OK and lots of Indian families were exterminated right after upstanding citizens "adopted" these families and took trust ownership of their lands. Lots of OK wealthy got their money that way. But anyone from OK should know that one... yup OK, a shining beacon for the rule of law.
So how about we don't paint an entire state with a brush, then? The cop was a douche. He would've been a douche regardless of where he lived.Diesel_dyk wrote:
To me Hicks come from hickville which is any place where the good ol'boy network overrides the rule of law. Between the cop and the paramedic someone committed a crime, my bet is the choke hold on the paramedic. And both of these clowns wronged the patient trying to get to the hospital. The fact that the DA is all to willing sweep it under the rug and chalk it up to interagency relations breakdown is ridiculous and smacks of hickville good ol'boy network. I don't care where these stories come from whether its the south, or OK or Montana or Connecticut. You don't need to have an accent to be a hick, all you need is a small town mentality, a healthy appetite for corruption, and a distain for the rule of law.
And you don't need a small town mentality (just what the hell IS that, btw) to be a hick. Don't even know if this guy WAS a hick...he just appears to be a dick. Maybe you have been misspelling it this whole time?
I know plenty of hicks who don't have "a small town mentality, a healthy appetite for corruption, and a disdain for the rule of law". In fact, most people I know who would be classified as "hicks" are heavily opposed to anyone with the latter two traits. And how is a "small town mentality" necessarily a negative?
Replace OK with any state where Native Americans lived (Georgia, Florida, New York, Montana, etc). But anyone with a modicum of understanding of that period (which was over 100 years ago, btw) should know that one.Diesel_dyk wrote:
BTW the stealing of Indian land and oil was pretty wide spread in OK and lots of Indian families were exterminated right after upstanding citizens "adopted" these families and took trust ownership of their lands. Lots of OK wealthy got their money that way. But anyone from OK should know that one... yup OK, a shining beacon for the rule of law.
Go ahead and tell me more about OK history...it's always interesting to hear an uneducated opinion.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Understandable.S3v3N wrote:
You absolutely have to assume that everybody you encounter after you pull them over or respond to a call is going to murder you. You live longer.
But the Plod need to understand its not fun being a member of the public being pulled over by a pumped up, jumpy guy with a gun and practical carte blanche to do whatever he wants to you.
Fuck Israel
Exactly. You proved my point. That OHP was out of line saying "you are under arrest" from the get go.S3v3N wrote:
a warning, ticket or ass chewing.Ilocano wrote:
I'm just asking in general. When you pull over someone because they failed to yield the way for some other call, do you arrest them or ticket them?S3v3N wrote:
Watch the video again. The white dude with the bald head is the driver. he got his ass chewed.
thats mean marine calm down no more insulting he is only stating his opinion lolusmarine wrote:
i hope you dieoO wrote:
People who want to be policemen are usually horrible power-hungry 4rseholes to start with.
Perhaps I should pull the noose a little tighter, or circle the wagons as it were, when I make my point.FEOS wrote:
So funny when people who likely have never set foot in a place stereotype the people who live there or are from there.Diesel_dyk wrote:
True, its Indian Country. But the cops were pure southern hick, probably imported from Kansas, Missouri or destinations south. I still can't get over the cops girlie hands trying to choke the big black paramedic, could his hands be any smaller??? If that smallishness carries over to other body parts then that might explain the angry little man syndrome. LOLZ. and I think we'll be hearing more from this guy in the future.FEOS wrote:
Oklahoma isn't "the south".
Thanks for the info.
The DA isn't even making the cops release the car cam video, hopefully the family will sue all involved since the DA doesn't have a pair to do the right thing.
It appears that choking a black person with your hands in OK. is still O.K.. I wonder if its still O.K. to blow up Indians too and steal their land and oil?
My cousin is an OK state trooper. Yes, he has an accent you could cut with a knife. He also has a degree in electrical engineering and owns his own business with his wife. And cares for a special-needs child as well as contributing philanthropically to his community.
Yep. Just a bunch of redneck hicks out there in Oklahoma.
Reminds me of when I was at basic and some knuckleheads from CA and the east coast were asking if we still had "Indian problems" in OK...seriously. Like Indians raiding villages and shit. Good to see others are still as ass-backwards as those morons were.
When I draw on historical events 100 years ago, it not an out of the "blue" smear. The ambulance that was stopped was a Creek Nation EMS. Creek Nation hospital EMS That would be Creek nation as in American Indian Tribal Nation. But any body who knows OK history would know that OK is filled with Tribal Nations who have their own sovereignty, where state law does not apply on their land, who run their own police and ems services, and in fact issue their own license plates.
I've known more that a few Indians who have told me how state troopers target them because they have their tribal nation license plate on their car. They get hassled for DWB (Driving While Brown) But you know, I really don't know what I'm talking about.
So when I say the DA is hick, the cop was a hick its because of the fact that no charges would be laid. I mean its only understandable given the great relationship the state cops and state functionaries have with Tribal Nations. /sarcasm
So personally I don't give a shit if you cousin Bob or uncle Neal is a philanthropist who passes out dildos to orphans, the state cops have a lot to make up for their past transgressions against the people from tribal nations, and its a smear that comes with putting on the uniform. If the other cops had any integrity they would have arrested that asshole cop on the spot when he claimed he wanted to shoot the ems guy or when he choked the ems guy. The cop on the scene didn't arrest him and the cops at the hospital wouldn't even take a statement concerning the cops actions... I guess there is no rule of law when it comes to dealing with Indians.
Though I guess I could have used "John Wayne" attitude instead of small town attitude, but when it comes to how Oklahomans feel about Indians I'm not sure there's a difference and if anything the in action of the DA has proved me right. I say release the tape, and I hope the family pursues a federal suit. But I will apologize to the Indians living in OK who have to put up with this shit and to all the people in Oklahoma who are not racist against Indians... the rest can STFU.
^^^^^^^^^^CREEK NATION EMT^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Here's an Indian joke for you
An Indian walks into a grocery store with a roll of toilet paper and asks for his money back
The Clerk: "what's wrong with it"
The Indian: "its mislabeled"
The Clerk: "How so?"
The Indian: "You should call this stuff John Wayne toilet paper because its tough, its got true grit and it don't take no shit off of no Indian."
OK, dyk. You want to got there? Let's go then...Diesel_dyk wrote:
Perhaps I should pull the noose a little tighter, or circle the wagons as it were, when I make my point.FEOS wrote:
So funny when people who likely have never set foot in a place stereotype the people who live there or are from there.Diesel_dyk wrote:
True, its Indian Country. But the cops were pure southern hick, probably imported from Kansas, Missouri or destinations south. I still can't get over the cops girlie hands trying to choke the big black paramedic, could his hands be any smaller??? If that smallishness carries over to other body parts then that might explain the angry little man syndrome. LOLZ. and I think we'll be hearing more from this guy in the future.
Thanks for the info.
The DA isn't even making the cops release the car cam video, hopefully the family will sue all involved since the DA doesn't have a pair to do the right thing.
It appears that choking a black person with your hands in OK. is still O.K.. I wonder if its still O.K. to blow up Indians too and steal their land and oil?
My cousin is an OK state trooper. Yes, he has an accent you could cut with a knife. He also has a degree in electrical engineering and owns his own business with his wife. And cares for a special-needs child as well as contributing philanthropically to his community.
Yep. Just a bunch of redneck hicks out there in Oklahoma.
Reminds me of when I was at basic and some knuckleheads from CA and the east coast were asking if we still had "Indian problems" in OK...seriously. Like Indians raiding villages and shit. Good to see others are still as ass-backwards as those morons were.
When I draw on historical events 100 years ago, it not an out of the "blue" smear. The ambulance that was stopped was a Creek Nation EMS. Creek Nation hospital EMS That would be Creek nation as in American Indian Tribal Nation. But any body who knows OK history would know that OK is filled with Tribal Nations who have their own sovereignty, where state law does not apply on their land, who run their own police and ems services, and in fact issue their own license plates.
In actuality, the tribal governments often cooperate with state and federal law enforcement on issues of LAW. Running their own EMS and police services and issuing their own license plates are separate issues than whether they cooperate or not on issues of LAW and violations of state and federal law. If that ambulance wasn't on Creek Nation territory (ie, on a state or federal highway...which it would have to be on to be in the jurisdiction of a state police officer to be pulled over, btw), then they are just as "vulnerable" to state and federal law officers as anyone else. Any crimes they commit off the "rez" are just as binding as those crimes committed by non-tribal members.
That's cute. You've known some Indians who complained about the white man.dyk wrote:
I've known more that a few Indians who have told me how state troopers target them because they have their tribal nation license plate on their car. They get hassled for DWB (Driving While Brown) But you know, I really don't know what I'm talking about.
Having lived more than 20 years in OK, I know a many who say the same thing. And I know some black guys who say the same thing. And some Hispanic guys. And I know white guys who say the same thing about Rez cops. Oh, and I've heard the same complaints about cops in every state I've ever lived in from those same groups (though admittedly not nearly as many NAs outside of OK).
So...your point is meaningless in that regard.
I don't know if you noticed, but the guy who got choked wasn't an Indian, therefore he wasn't a member of the Creek Nation. So your logic fails here as well.dyk wrote:
So when I say the DA is hick, the cop was a hick its because of the fact that no charges would be laid. I mean its only understandable given the great relationship the state cops and state functionaries have with Tribal Nations. /sarcasm
And you come up with this lovely bit of prose because "you know some guys"? Get a fucking grip. "dildos to orphans?" That's real nice.dyk wrote:
So personally I don't give a shit if you cousin Bob or uncle Neal is a philanthropist who passes out dildos to orphans, the state cops have a lot to make up for their past transgressions against the people from tribal nations, and its a smear that comes with putting on the uniform. If the other cops had any integrity they would have arrested that asshole cop on the spot when he claimed he wanted to shoot the ems guy or when he choked the ems guy. The cop on the scene didn't arrest him and the cops at the hospital wouldn't even take a statement concerning the cops actions... I guess there is no rule of law when it comes to dealing with Indians.
One dude was an asshole and it was caught on camera. So now every single state trooper is like him and all state troopers have to make up for something? Your leaps in logic here are ridiculous. But I guess some guys told you that sometimes they get pulled over just for being Indian, so that makes your unfounded accusations about an entire group of people valid, right?
Saying you want to shoot someone isn't an arrestable offense, btw. It's just a stupid thing to say. And that's not illegal.
He was choking the EMT after the EMT put his hand in the cop's face and got combative. They probably felt it was a justified method of putting the EMT in "a position of disadvantage". Not saying that I think any of his behavior was justified...but I can see why the other cops didn't step in at the time.
You know fuckall about reality in OK. Indians are generally treated with kid gloves because of societal guilt regarding how their people were treated in the past. Some take advantage of that. Most do not. Some non-Indians have a problem with that. Most do not.dyk wrote:
Though I guess I could have used "John Wayne" attitude instead of small town attitude, but when it comes to how Oklahomans feel about Indians I'm not sure there's a difference and if anything the in action of the DA has proved me right. I say release the tape, and I hope the family pursues a federal suit. But I will apologize to the Indians living in OK who have to put up with this shit and to all the people in Oklahoma who are not racist against Indians... the rest can STFU.
All that said, I didn't take issue with the fact that the trooper fucked up. He did. No doubt. I took issue with your stereotyping, broad-brush treatment of an entire group of people. A group that I know from personal experience NOT to be like Ofcr Martin and NOT like you think you know them to be "because you know some guys".
And if you watch the video, you'll see that getting in an irate cop's face (or anyone with a gun, for that matter) and putting your finger in his face--whether justified or not--is not going to end well. Discretion is the better part of valor. Poor judgment all around, tbh.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Unless you are flying in a commercial aircraft...FEOS wrote:
Saying you want to shoot someone isn't an arrestable offense, btw. It's just a stupid thing to say. And that's not illegal.
Is it an offence to say you want to shoot the president?Ilocano wrote:
Unless you are flying in a commercial aircraft...FEOS wrote:
Saying you want to shoot someone isn't an arrestable offense, btw. It's just a stupid thing to say. And that's not illegal.
Sry, straying off topic abit.
No. Only if you say you have a gun. Saying you want to shoot someone is just fine.Ilocano wrote:
Unless you are flying in a commercial aircraft...FEOS wrote:
Saying you want to shoot someone isn't an arrestable offense, btw. It's just a stupid thing to say. And that's not illegal.
No. It will get you investigated, but not necessarily arrested.JahManRed wrote:
Is it an offence to say you want to shoot the president?
Sry, straying off topic abit.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Maybe in Oklahoma, not in the rest of the world.FEOS wrote:
No. Only if you say you have a gun. Saying you want to shoot someone is just fine.
Anyway, the plod did have a gun.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-06-12 05:50:40)
Fuck Israel
oh i bet you can say that in somalia or pakistanDilbert_X wrote:
Maybe in Oklahoma, not in the rest of the world.FEOS wrote:
No. Only if you say you have a gun. Saying you want to shoot someone is just fine.
Of course I can, because pretty well no-one there understands English - Duh.....usm wrote:
oh i bet you can say that in somalia or pakistan
In most civilised nations saying "I want to kill you" is a pretty serious offense.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-06-12 06:20:36)
Fuck Israel
I dunno....Dilbert_X wrote:
Of course I can, because pretty well no-one there understands English - Duh.....usm wrote:
oh i bet you can say that in somalia or pakistan
In most civilised nations saying "I want to kill you" is a pretty serious offense.
I WANT to kill you, might be ok. I'm GOING to kill you, isn't.
Then try writing "I want to kill you" and sending it to the Prime Minister and see what happens.
Fuck Israel
No, in the rest of the US/world too.Dilbert_X wrote:
Maybe in Oklahoma, not in the rest of the world.FEOS wrote:
No. Only if you say you have a gun. Saying you want to shoot someone is just fine.
Anyway, the plod did have a gun.
Saying you want to shoot someone--whether you have a gun or not--is not an arrestable offense.
Shooting someone--whether you say you want to or not--is.
And that particular comment was in regard to being on an airplane. You can't be arrested for saying "I'd like to put a round or two right between Dilbert's eyes" on an airplane...or anywhere else.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular