BF2S Forums Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'

lowing wrote:

Hmmmm,


let me try again..

NO evidence of WMD's, to you means none existed

NO pics of rape, and you insist they exist.

This is what does not make sense. you believe what you choose to and do not stay consistent with any given facts

"At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee.

Further photographs are said to depict sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube.

Another apparently shows a female prisoner having her clothing forcibly removed to expose her breasts.

Detail of the content emerged from Major General Antonio Taguba, the former army officer who conducted an inquiry into the Abu Ghraib jail in Iraq.

Maj Gen Taguba, who retired in January 2007, said he supported the President’s decision, adding: “These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency.

lowing wrote:

You all were screamng no evidence of WMD's 15 minutes after the war started, s odo not give me that 7 years bullshit.


Yeah I read what IT SAID. Where is the pics and where is the same doubt you had about the WMD's?

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

You all were screamng no evidence of WMD's 15 minutes after the war started, s odo not give me that 7 years bullshit.


Yeah I read what IT SAID. Where is the pics and where is the same doubt you had about the WMD's?

Was I? I didn't know you could tell what I was thinking 7 years ago. While there wasn't even bf2s forum, let alone a bf2 game...

The pics have been disclosed by SBS. Except for those Obama has blocked. So what doubt? What is there to doubt? That prisoners were raped? We know they were tortured. Does the testimony of Major General Antonio Taguba, the former army officer who conducted an inquiry into the Abu Ghraib jail in Iraq offer no evidence of rape to you?

I'd still like to know if you believe Saddam did have WMD's at the time of invasion.

Burwhale wrote:

lowing wrote:

You all were screamng no evidence of WMD's 15 minutes after the war started, s odo not give me that 7 years bullshit.


Yeah I read what IT SAID. Where is the pics and where is the same doubt you had about the WMD's?

Thing with WMD's is that they are large in size, need factories to create resources to make them, leave a big paper trail.

Rape is something that happens when cameras arent around ( because its so abhorrent), the fact that there was one incident caught on camera is pretty significant.

The fact that WMDs werent photographed shows that they probably werent there. Photos of a rape in a prison probably shows one soldier was doing something very wrong, and another was taking a photo instead of stopping him, or reporting him. Combine that with the other incidents from that prison and it looks very bad indeed.

I wont make a comment on US soldiers as a group because I am certain the majority are honorable, decent people that want the best for the Iraqi people. Not sure why so many bad apples turned up in Abu Graib though.

lowing wrote:

Burwhale wrote:

lowing wrote:

You all were screamng no evidence of WMD's 15 minutes after the war started, s odo not give me that 7 years bullshit.


Yeah I read what IT SAID. Where is the pics and where is the same doubt you had about the WMD's?

Thing with WMD's is that they are large in size, need factories to create resources to make them, leave a big paper trail.

Rape is something that happens when cameras arent around ( because its so abhorrent), the fact that there was one incident caught on camera is pretty significant.

The fact that WMDs werent photographed shows that they probably werent there. Photos of a rape in a prison probably shows one soldier was doing something very wrong, and another was taking a photo instead of stopping him, or reporting him. Combine that with the other incidents from that prison and it looks very bad indeed.

I wont make a comment on US soldiers as a group because I am certain the majority are honorable, decent people that want the best for the Iraqi people. Not sure why so many bad apples turned up in Abu Graib though.

Sounds logical to think when one acts like a fuckin' animal one will be treated like one.

This is nothing new from shit that has happened in every war throughout history by every country, even during the noble WW2. The only difference now is, media has headlines to think about over national security and the damage it can cause, and the lives it can cost through their smear campaigns for ratings. Nothing new here except for the second time in our history the media puts headlines first.

lowing wrote:

Sounds logical to think when one acts like a fuckin' animal one will be treated like one.

This is nothing new from shit that has happened in every war throughout history by every country, even during the noble WW2. The only difference now is, media has headlines to think about over national security and the damage it can cause, and the lives it can cost through their smear campaigns for ratings. Nothing new here except for the second time in our history the media puts headlines first.

Burwhale wrote:

lowing wrote:

Sounds logical to think when one acts like a fuckin' animal one will be treated like one.

This is nothing new from shit that has happened in every war throughout history by every country, even during the noble WW2. The only difference now is, media has headlines to think about over national security and the damage it can cause, and the lives it can cost through their smear campaigns for ratings. Nothing new here except for the second time in our history the media puts headlines first.

Doesnt make it right though. Surely you agree that the soldiers that did this deserve severe punishment. They deserve to be punished if for no other reason that they put other good soldiers in danger of revenge attacks for their stupidity.

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

So you're saying there was no torture...?

I don't consider the pics I saw torture. I consider them humiliating, and they do not stack up against getting your fuckin' head sawed off.

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

oh please spare me with this sentence

we know they were tortured? because they had burlap over their heads, or forced to stand naked?

Who said torture? Anyway, yes, from that we do know that the relevant rule concerning torture was broken.

UDHR, Article 5 wrote:

No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Quite clear cut.

Not really what this thread is about though. It's about them getting raped. Apparently there are highly incriminating pictures of this.

lowing wrote:

Obama wanted to release the pics, where are they?

Have you read much of this thread? There has been a lot of discussion about how Obama has blocked the publication of many of the pictures.

Telegraph wrote:

Mr Obama previously committed to allowing thousands of images to be published but changed his mind after senior generals warned that their publication could place US troops serving in Iraq and Afghanistan in greater danger.

lowing wrote:

I believe Saddam had WMD's for the 10 years he was playing pussyfoot with the UN and the resolutions that required full transparency into his weapons programs.

Good for you. Shows you have a healthy imagination.

Yeah, I just imagined I saw the documentaries covering the mass genicide against the Kurds using biological warfare.

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

So if US interrogators stop just short of sawing a prisoners head off, your fine with it.

Yeah that makes perfect sense...

Not sure where ya got that response, Ican only assume it is due to the lack of a good one.

Well, you consider the prisoner abuse as nothing other than humiliating, that do not stack up against getting "your fuckin' head sawed off".

Maybe you clarify at what point you do think the line between humiliation and torture should be drawn. Is rape humiliating, or torture in your mind?

lowing wrote:

Flecco wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Well, you consider the prisoner abuse as nothing other than humiliating, that do not stack up against getting "your fuckin' head sawed off".

Maybe you clarify at what point you do think the line between humiliation and torture should be drawn. Is rape humiliating, or torture in your mind?

Protip: It's not bad if the USA does it. That's the rule. Pretty much how they tried the Germans at Nuremberg after WW2.

If a German accused of a crime could prove an Allied commander had ordered something similar he got off scot-free. I believe that's how it worked anyway. Something similar. Basically if the Allies did it, it wasn't a war-crime.

Such as it is for the victors of ALL wars THROUGHTOUT HISTORY, by EVERY country.

Flecco wrote:

lowing wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Protip: It's not bad if the USA does it. That's the rule. Pretty much how they tried the Germans at Nuremberg after WW2.

If a German accused of a crime could prove an Allied commander had ordered something similar he got off scot-free. I believe that's how it worked anyway. Something similar. Basically if the Allies did it, it wasn't a war-crime.

Such as it is for the victors of ALL wars THROUGHTOUT HISTORY, by EVERY country.

Doesn't make the firebombing of Dresden right though.