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2009-05-22 13:20:01
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6997|NJ

Kmarion wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

We'd like to think that because these guys are wearing badges that they are some sort of superhumans, immune to the effects of adrenaline. The fact is that no amount of training can guarantee anyone the ability to turn it off in an instant. I'm not saying that what happened is excusable, but we definitely need to consider the very real physiological condition that officers must deal with when we ask them to defend the public.
They knew what they were doing was wrong, that's why the camera went off, and defending the public means obeying the same laws they are sworn to protect.  Once that boundary is crossed they need to be fired and arrested, even the notion that crossing the line even once is not allowed.
The cameras went off? Do  you mean after the fact? Did you miss my entire point?

I did not say there shouldn't have been some sort of discipline. What I said, and what you clearly missed, was that the punishment should consider all of the circumstances. The general public is not asked to engage and pursue. If we are demanding an elevated level of confrontation out of a person then we should expect (at times) everything that comes with it. If I saw someone miss killing a friend or family member by inches I can guarantee you that the beating would have exceeded 6 seconds.
The law doesn't take that into consideration for civilians and that's what police are, so if someone just missed killing a friend of your family member you'd be in jail.. I do realize the responsibility for being a police officer and know that when they mess up the punishment should be worse for them. 

Yeah at the end of the video one of the cops run back to shut off the camera, the one that's probably saying "dudes I'm so sorry, I know what we're suppose to do in this situation but I got caught up"
2009-05-22 13:30:38
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6997|NJ
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. - An attorney for five Birmingham police officers who were fired after being shown on videotape beating an inert suspect said Thursday they thought the man was conscious and armed.

Attorney Gayle Gear said the officers who approached Anthony Warren had not seen him thrown from his van when it overturned at the end of a police chase, and they assumed he was a threat.

Gear said the officers were following their training to force Warren to submit and they have appealed their dismissal to the Jefferson County Personnel Board.

As Gear defended their actions, an attorney for Warren said a lawsuit is expected to be filed this week against the officers and the police department. An internal investigation was ordered by Police Chief A.C. Roper to determine if others in the department knew about the beating, recorded by a patrol car camera, but did not report it.

The video surfaced by surprise in March more than a year after the Jan. 23, 2008 chase. Warren, 38, was nearing trial for attempted murder, a charge stemming from the chase, and a copy of the video given to prosecutors didn't include the beating. But when the chief prosecutor sought the original tape for technical reasons, the beating was discovered.

Warren's attorney, Wendy Crew, said the suit would seek monetary damages and ask the court to order the city to change the way it trains police officers.

Gear said the officers responded at the end of a hair-raising chase in which Warren appeared to try to hit several vehicles and a Hoover police officer.

"He was trying to hit everybody. You can't just run from police like that," Gear said.

She said the officers who first arrived didn't know if Warren was armed and assumed he had a weapon under his body. She said the officers were not trying to injure Warren, but hit him in pressure spots, such as behind the neck, that would force him to submit.

Wow that's fantastic. They didn't know he was thrown from the van, and they tried to cover it up.
2009-05-22 13:33:24
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6902|132 and Bush

You don't get it. There is a difference between a civilian and someone who is expected to endanger themselves. You, as a civilian, have a luxury that they didn't. Hindsight and the ability to critique their job, free from the dangers and emotions that come with it. Again, I'm not saying that there should not have been punishment.. but this idea that they should be punished more because they have situations and conditions that most of us don't is utter crap. You can take that 35-45k and shove it.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2009-05-22 13:34:38
[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi
Why walk when you can dance?
+77|6888|sWEEDen
In what way would investments in HOMELAND SECURITY weaken the forces in charge of it?

Is there alot of drugs and criminals coming in from Iraq or Afghanistan (some heroine from Afghanistan perhaps) your way? I can´t really see in what way not buying one or two less of the latest generation fighter jet would weaken the homeland security, it´s not like you need them to crush the 3rd world nations...they are already "at the stoneage to begin with", right?

And why wouldn´t cops jobs be monitored and disected for evaluation and development, everyone elses is, I know mine is for sure, and if I went on a rage at my job I would be called a criminal and held charge of what I did wrong in the eye of the law....
2009-05-22 13:34:47
.Sup
be nice
+2,646|6754|The Twilight Zone

Kmarion wrote:

Feel free to put this in the OP..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCX3o_DWosA

This is disturbing... a single kick in the other posted incident.. ntsomch
lol too much energy, they should do eachother
https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png
2009-05-22 13:35:54
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6997|NJ
"Crew, who did not represent Warren in the criminal case, said he fled in the van because he was confronted by a man who never identified himself as an officer, was not in uniform and drove after him in an unmarked car. She said he had not been accused of any crime when the pursuit began."

This is from the attorney of the case.. Highly unlikely but I haven't been able to find anything on why he was being chased, but he is getting 20 years for assault.
2009-05-22 13:46:31
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6997|NJ

Kmarion wrote:

You don't get it. There is a difference between a civilian and someone who is expected to endanger themselves. You, as a civilian, have a luxury that they didn't. Hindsight and the ability to critique their job, free from the dangers and emotions that come with it. Again, I'm not saying that there should not have been punishment.. but this idea that they should be punished more because they have situations and conditions that most of us don't is utter crap. You can take that 35-45k and shove it.
35-45k start up caps out in five years at 75-85k, unless you go Sergent, detective, ext. in which case you could be making 120k +. Power corrupts what was that 70's social experiment were everyone one of the guards went bat shit crazy. So to let it go unchecked because they're under stress, is utter bull shit. It needs to be kept in line, that man behind the badge can legally kill you. As said before in this thread, they're only human, plus there jobs are not as dangerous as you say or think. They have equipment, backup and training.
2009-05-22 13:54:17
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6902|132 and Bush

Let it go unchecked? Is that what I said? Why are you instantly jumping to this assumption? I've never said that.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2009-05-22 13:59:28
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6997|NJ
Wasn't saying that you said "let it go unchecked" Just debating the fact that they're needs to be stricter laws in place to protect Joe Public from police.
2009-05-22 14:01:10
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6902|132 and Bush

They were fired no? I will agree that with higher power there needs to be constant evaluation. My only contention has been that everything needs to be considered.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2009-05-22 14:02:48
[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi
Why walk when you can dance?
+77|6888|sWEEDen
On the other hand there should also be better/different laws to also protect the policeforce, then this kind of events would be as minimized as possible.
2009-05-22 14:10:47
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6997|NJ
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n … se22m.html

Unfortunate incident and it sucks.. But the police officer was in the right..
2009-05-22 14:18:39
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6902|132 and Bush

Has anyone mentioned the missing three seconds in the video? I just noticed right before the flip.. dashboard cam @11:53:30-33. Was there a deleted ram in there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCX3o_DW … amp;fmt=18

edit: deleted nudge .. other version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7zeHHScXR8
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2009-05-22 14:54:01
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6997|NJ
Wonder if there where any other incidents in the year they didn't know about the beating.. Wow if you read the copy, paste I did up there the whole department was covering it up.  The other interesting point is that he wasn't charged with any other charges other then the attempted murder on the police officer, which was down graded to an Assault on a police officer.
2009-05-23 04:05:28
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6882|SE London

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:


If those cops were "criminals" as you so dearly are aching to make them, they would have been arrested and thrown in jail. So no, they are not criminals. So in reverse Your opinion that they are really does not make it so.
Or have been let off because of the extenuating circumstances - adrenalin, being provoked etc. Which is why I believe there is no way they should face any charges over this. But they are demonstrating they can't keep their cool under pressure and so they shouldn't be in the job, which is why it is right to fire them.

Also, you're not being very consistent. The two highlighted sections completely contradict each other. If you are doing the wrong thing in the eyes of the law (i.e. breaking it), you are a criminal. It's not complicated.
So now one can not be "wrong" without also being a criminal.. I see
One cannot "do wrong in the eyes of the law" (which is obviously very different to being wrong) and not be a criminal. That's kinda how it works.
2009-05-23 12:32:36
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6952|USA

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:


Or have been let off because of the extenuating circumstances - adrenalin, being provoked etc. Which is why I believe there is no way they should face any charges over this. But they are demonstrating they can't keep their cool under pressure and so they shouldn't be in the job, which is why it is right to fire them.

Also, you're not being very consistent. The two highlighted sections completely contradict each other. If you are doing the wrong thing in the eyes of the law (i.e. breaking it), you are a criminal. It's not complicated.
So now one can not be "wrong" without also being a criminal.. I see
One cannot "do wrong in the eyes of the law" (which is obviously very different to being wrong) and not be a criminal. That's kinda how it works.
Good post. I had already anticipated that response and can not argue against it.   This is why this thread and my posts are opinon based. I do not want a police force that needs to worry that every action every scenerio will be arm chair quaterbacked by those that are not otherwise involved or have any desire to be. I do not want my police force second guessing their decisions in a life or death situation because of people like you that want to see them in jail just as much ( if not more) than the criminal for a mistake made in a split second decision that was made in good faith for the safety of the rest of us.
2009-05-23 12:38:57
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7017
how about... you run from the cops for any reason... 30 years in jail... no exceptions...  that might put a stop to the running away when police pull you over...  I have always pulled right over and said yes sir no sir... took my ticket and drove away...  never been beaten... coincidence?
Love is the answer
2009-05-23 12:41:44
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6952|USA

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

how about... you run from the cops for any reason... 30 years in jail... no exceptions...  that might put a stop to the running away when police pull you over...  I have always pulled right over and said yes sir no sir... took my ticket and drove away...  never been beaten... coincidence?
sounds good, and the jail term will start right after you recover from your ass whippin'
2009-05-26 06:28:30
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6997|NJ

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:


So now one can not be "wrong" without also being a criminal.. I see
One cannot "do wrong in the eyes of the law" (which is obviously very different to being wrong) and not be a criminal. That's kinda how it works.
Good post. I had already anticipated that response and can not argue against it.   This is why this thread and my posts are opinon based. I do not want a police force that needs to worry that every action every scenerio will be arm chair quaterbacked by those that are not otherwise involved or have any desire to be. I do not want my police force second guessing their decisions in a life or death situation because of people like you that want to see them in jail just as much ( if not more) than the criminal for a mistake made in a split second decision that was made in good faith for the safety of the rest of us.
Really lowing? Really?

So during a traffic stop involving yourself  you'd love to have a gun held to your head, for the cops safety? Again looking into it which all my post where nicely looked over, the Cops tried to cover it up, the man was approached by an Unmarked police officer in a unmarked car, ran probably cause of fear. Maybe got caught up in an adrenaline rush kept running then got beat. As far as I can tell, that man did nothing wrong in the first place and if he did they "SHOULD HAVE ISSUED A TICKET FOR IT"..

SO These guys with guns, cause they're thugs right now not cops, Tried to murder a man and it's ok with you?
2009-05-26 06:34:37
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6407|eXtreme to the maX
I DO want the Police to know that they will be held to account for any criminal, reckless or negligent act.
Fuck Israel
2009-05-26 07:31:24
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6952|USA

cpt.fass1 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:


One cannot "do wrong in the eyes of the law" (which is obviously very different to being wrong) and not be a criminal. That's kinda how it works.
Good post. I had already anticipated that response and can not argue against it.   This is why this thread and my posts are opinon based. I do not want a police force that needs to worry that every action every scenerio will be arm chair quaterbacked by those that are not otherwise involved or have any desire to be. I do not want my police force second guessing their decisions in a life or death situation because of people like you that want to see them in jail just as much ( if not more) than the criminal for a mistake made in a split second decision that was made in good faith for the safety of the rest of us.
Really lowing? Really?

So during a traffic stop involving yourself  you'd love to have a gun held to your head, for the cops safety? Again looking into it which all my post where nicely looked over, the Cops tried to cover it up, the man was approached by an Unmarked police officer in a unmarked car, ran probably cause of fear. Maybe got caught up in an adrenaline rush kept running then got beat. As far as I can tell, that man did nothing wrong in the first place and if he did they "SHOULD HAVE ISSUED A TICKET FOR IT"..

SO These guys with guns, cause they're thugs right now not cops, Tried to murder a man and it's ok with you?
hmmmmmmmmm trying to remember the last time I got pulled over and had a gun shoved to my head.....Nope can't think of a single instance.

Are you paranoid enough to beleive that cops simple draw down on people for no reason whatsoever? Sure there are bad cops, but it is the exception and not the rule. All I am saying is I have heard of worse attrocities than beating a violent criminal
2009-05-26 07:44:45
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6997|NJ

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

lowing wrote:


Good post. I had already anticipated that response and can not argue against it.   This is why this thread and my posts are opinon based. I do not want a police force that needs to worry that every action every scenerio will be arm chair quaterbacked by those that are not otherwise involved or have any desire to be. I do not want my police force second guessing their decisions in a life or death situation because of people like you that want to see them in jail just as much ( if not more) than the criminal for a mistake made in a split second decision that was made in good faith for the safety of the rest of us.
Really lowing? Really?

So during a traffic stop involving yourself  you'd love to have a gun held to your head, for the cops safety? Again looking into it which all my post where nicely looked over, the Cops tried to cover it up, the man was approached by an Unmarked police officer in a unmarked car, ran probably cause of fear. Maybe got caught up in an adrenaline rush kept running then got beat. As far as I can tell, that man did nothing wrong in the first place and if he did they "SHOULD HAVE ISSUED A TICKET FOR IT"..

SO These guys with guns, cause they're thugs right now not cops, Tried to murder a man and it's ok with you?
hmmmmmmmmm trying to remember the last time I got pulled over and had a gun shoved to my head.....Nope can't think of a single instance.

Are you paranoid enough to beleive that cops simple draw down on people for no reason whatsoever? Sure there are bad cops, but it is the exception and not the rule. All I am saying is I have heard of worse attrocities than beating a violent criminal
Hmmm, What makes this guy a violent criminal?
It's not Paranoia to think that cops draw on people for no reason what so ever.. It's the thought process that they have stressfull jobs and mistakes happen, but in my job when mistakes happen no one dies. In there jobs innocent people get shot, killed, beat, arrested and fined for a cop not doing his duty correctly.
2009-05-26 08:05:39
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6952|USA

cpt.fass1 wrote:

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:


Really lowing? Really?

So during a traffic stop involving yourself  you'd love to have a gun held to your head, for the cops safety? Again looking into it which all my post where nicely looked over, the Cops tried to cover it up, the man was approached by an Unmarked police officer in a unmarked car, ran probably cause of fear. Maybe got caught up in an adrenaline rush kept running then got beat. As far as I can tell, that man did nothing wrong in the first place and if he did they "SHOULD HAVE ISSUED A TICKET FOR IT"..

SO These guys with guns, cause they're thugs right now not cops, Tried to murder a man and it's ok with you?
hmmmmmmmmm trying to remember the last time I got pulled over and had a gun shoved to my head.....Nope can't think of a single instance.

Are you paranoid enough to beleive that cops simple draw down on people for no reason whatsoever? Sure there are bad cops, but it is the exception and not the rule. All I am saying is I have heard of worse attrocities than beating a violent criminal
Hmmm, What makes this guy a violent criminal?
It's not Paranoia to think that cops draw on people for no reason what so ever.. It's the thought process that they have stressfull jobs and mistakes happen, but in my job when mistakes happen no one dies. In there jobs innocent people get shot, killed, beat, arrested and fined for a cop not doing his duty correctly.
Sorry, nothing about that criminal almost killing several innocent people leads me to believe he just had a busted tail light.
2009-05-26 08:51:08
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6997|NJ

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

lowing wrote:

hmmmmmmmmm trying to remember the last time I got pulled over and had a gun shoved to my head.....Nope can't think of a single instance.

Are you paranoid enough to beleive that cops simple draw down on people for no reason whatsoever? Sure there are bad cops, but it is the exception and not the rule. All I am saying is I have heard of worse attrocities than beating a violent criminal
Hmmm, What makes this guy a violent criminal?
It's not Paranoia to think that cops draw on people for no reason what so ever.. It's the thought process that they have stressfull jobs and mistakes happen, but in my job when mistakes happen no one dies. In there jobs innocent people get shot, killed, beat, arrested and fined for a cop not doing his duty correctly.
Sorry, nothing about that criminal almost killing several innocent people leads me to believe he just had a busted tail light.
I really can't go off speculation in this case.. The law is the law and people just shouldn't be able to be stopped for no reason and in this case there is no other ticket then the one that was caused because of the chase?

IN ORDER TO BE A CRIMINAL YOU MUST BREAK A LAW FIRST.. Or then it's just a thought crime

Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2009-05-26 08:51:56)

2009-05-26 09:09:11
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6952|USA

cpt.fass1 wrote:

lowing wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:


Hmmm, What makes this guy a violent criminal?
It's not Paranoia to think that cops draw on people for no reason what so ever.. It's the thought process that they have stressfull jobs and mistakes happen, but in my job when mistakes happen no one dies. In there jobs innocent people get shot, killed, beat, arrested and fined for a cop not doing his duty correctly.
Sorry, nothing about that criminal almost killing several innocent people leads me to believe he just had a busted tail light.
I really can't go off speculation in this case.. The law is the law and people just shouldn't be able to be stopped for no reason and in this case there is no other ticket then the one that was caused because of the chase?

IN ORDER TO BE A CRIMINAL YOU MUST BREAK A LAW FIRST.. Or then it's just a thought crime
Agreed, but cops are allowed to perform checkpoints and pull people over for suspicions who knows why this guy got the attention of the cops. After this chase whatever it was just got trumped by this violent cowardly behavior

 

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