Nope, but I know a few fascist parties that didn't have racism in their policies.
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no im not saying that-the racial aspect was NASDP being pushed by hitler but everything else was esentially textbook fascist. Italy was less fascist than Germany though. And I think that if Italy was independent to hitler they would have never set up concentration camps.Flecco wrote:
That doesn't make all fascist ideology intrinsically racist.
FYI Italian fascism was pretty racist too.
Spain under Fraco?oug wrote:
So do you know any fascist regime/state etc that wasn't racist? I honestly can't think of any right now.
That was over hard right vs hard left though thats different it was a civil war between themselves.Macbeth wrote:
Spain under Fraco?oug wrote:
So do you know any fascist regime/state etc that wasn't racist? I honestly can't think of any right now.
lolwatSealXo wrote:
no im not saying that-the racial aspect was NASDP being pushed by hitler but everything else was esentially textbook fascist. Italy was less fascist than Germany though. And I think that if Italy was independent to hitler they would have never set up concentration camps.Flecco wrote:
That doesn't make all fascist ideology intrinsically racist.
FYI Italian fascism was pretty racist too.
I was under the impression that Mussolini wrote the textbook on Fascism...
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Speaking from an American stand-point, it is all about nativism/nationalism. The majority of American Jews immigranted from the late 1800's to the mid 1900's. The nativist believes that all foreigners are evil and thus ought to be destroyed. While all whites in America are foreigners if you go back long enough, the American navtivist believes that the "real Americans" are Scottish or German decent, as those were the countries that had the most emigrants to America during the 1700's. So Jews aren't "real Americans" and are thus bad. Somehow.
Catholics in America are mostly from Ireland, Italy and Poland and thus the nativists hate them too.
But the thing with American racism is that there are really two kinds. The KKK kind who claims that you need to be a white protestant, and the Neo-Nazis who just require you to be white. And Jews are for some inexplicable reason not white.
If this makes any sense to you, you need to kill yourself. Even I am confused by my pwn words.
Catholics in America are mostly from Ireland, Italy and Poland and thus the nativists hate them too.
But the thing with American racism is that there are really two kinds. The KKK kind who claims that you need to be a white protestant, and the Neo-Nazis who just require you to be white. And Jews are for some inexplicable reason not white.
If this makes any sense to you, you need to kill yourself. Even I am confused by my pwn words.
No, in WWII Mussolini was Hitlers bitch and just did what he was told- Benny boy himself had nothing against Jews or Gypsies or whatever.Flecco wrote:
lolwatSealXo wrote:
no im not saying that-the racial aspect was NASDP being pushed by hitler but everything else was esentially textbook fascist. Italy was less fascist than Germany though. And I think that if Italy was independent to hitler they would have never set up concentration camps.Flecco wrote:
That doesn't make all fascist ideology intrinsically racist.
FYI Italian fascism was pretty racist too.
I was under the impression that Mussolini wrote the textbook on Fascism...
I'm pretty positiv-o on this because I just did this chapter in AP European this week. (And got an A on the FRQ about Fascism)
Italy itself was never fully fascist.
Last edited by SealXo (2009-04-28 17:51:26)
Nah, Franco was quite racist I believe... I dunno in my book those two go together somehow... Can't think of fascism without the element of racism. I'd really like to see what those parties have to say Flecco, they sound interesting!Macbeth wrote:
Spain under Fraco?oug wrote:
So do you know any fascist regime/state etc that wasn't racist? I honestly can't think of any right now.
ƒ³
Pretty much. Fascism is ultra-conservative and conservatism means usually they like the old heritage of their country which is in most cases a single race. So when you have a hard right party like fascism you get the whole 'ethnic cleansing' 'final solution' sort of thing going on.oug wrote:
Nah, Franco was quite racist I believe... I dunno in my book those two go together somehow... Can't think of fascism without the element of racism. I'd really like to see what those parties have to say Flecco, they sound interesting!Macbeth wrote:
Spain under Fraco?oug wrote:
So do you know any fascist regime/state etc that wasn't racist? I honestly can't think of any right now.
edit: eh? maybe not spain though, because they were once castillian and aragonian right? shit... idk
Last edited by SealXo (2009-04-28 17:54:08)
Flecco is right. Italy under Mussolini was the first ever fascist state. Foreigners were a target at the time in Italy and they still are today for the fascists - who in fact count big numbers in Italy. No wonder they re-elected that fucker Berlusconi.SealXo wrote:
No, in WWII Mussolini was Hitlers bitch and just did what he was told- Benny boy himself had nothing against Jews or Gypsies or whatever.
I'm pretty positiv-o on this because I just did this chapter in AP European this week. (And got an A on the FRQ about Fascism)
Italy itself was never fully fascist.
ƒ³
Yes, in WW2 Mussolini was 'Hitler's bitch', but Italy under Mussolini was incredibly racist toward the slavs of Eastern Europe. Not to the point of concentration camps but definitely widespread discrimination. Again, the Nazis took the fascist model from the Italians, not the other way around. To say that the Nazis were 'more fascist' than Italy under Mussolini implies that you don't give a shit about fascism's definition according to the fella who came up with it, and instead apply your own definition of what constitutes a fascist regime retrospectively. This is the problem with the modern understanding of the fascist system. Everybody attaches so much importance to Nazi Germany as the quintessential fascist state. It wasn't. Only massive propaganda efforts from the Allies resulting from WW2 caused it to be held up as so. Is there a quintessentially capitalist state? A quintessentially communist state in history? A quintessentially socialist state? No, because they haven't been boxed up conveniently so people don't draw correlations with the current corporatism so prevalent in the western world today. The English language is far to politicised imo.SealXo wrote:
No, in WWII Mussolini was Hitlers bitch and just did what he was told- Benny boy himself had nothing against Jews or Gypsies or whatever.Flecco wrote:
lolwatSealXo wrote:
no im not saying that-the racial aspect was NASDP being pushed by hitler but everything else was esentially textbook fascist. Italy was less fascist than Germany though. And I think that if Italy was independent to hitler they would have never set up concentration camps.
I was under the impression that Mussolini wrote the textbook on Fascism...
I'm pretty positiv-o on this because I just did this chapter in AP European this week. (And got an A on the FRQ about Fascism)
Italy itself was never fully fascist.
@ Oug - Brazilian fascism, known as Integralism. Look it up.
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Like I explained, in terms of how they think, hell in terms of how even in todays modern world people think, the term "white person" is mainly used to describe someone of European origin. Jews aren't necessarily of European Origin (sort of) - so that's how it worksDoctaStrangelove wrote:
Speaking from an American stand-point, it is all about nativism/nationalism. The majority of American Jews immigranted from the late 1800's to the mid 1900's. The nativist believes that all foreigners are evil and thus ought to be destroyed. While all whites in America are foreigners if you go back long enough, the American navtivist believes that the "real Americans" are Scottish or German decent, as those were the countries that had the most emigrants to America during the 1700's. So Jews aren't "real Americans" and are thus bad. Somehow.
Catholics in America are mostly from Ireland, Italy and Poland and thus the nativists hate them too.
But the thing with American racism is that there are really two kinds. The KKK kind who claims that you need to be a white protestant, and the Neo-Nazis who just require you to be white. And Jews are for some inexplicable reason not white.
If this makes any sense to you, you need to kill yourself. Even I am confused by my pwn words.
The difference between normal people who think that, and crazy white supremacist nazi's who think that, is that a normal person doesn't really give a shit whilst a crazy white supremacist nazi makes a big deal about it and wants to uphold his crappy 19th century values of whites/Europeans being better than everyone and talking trash
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-04-28 18:08:18)
literally http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/muss … scism.htmlFlecco wrote:
I was under the impression that Mussolini wrote the textbook on Fascism...
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Might have to get a copy and read it. Gotta be better than Mein Kampf. That was shit. Didn't get very far into that because of how shit it was.
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A buddy of mine has a 1st edition copy of Mein Kampf. Sadly it's not signed by the author.
I just borrowed a translation from the library. Hitler might have been great live but his writing is hopeless. The translator stressed the point that it wasn't just things being lost in translation that made that copy so bad, it was Hitler's personal writing style that was crap.
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Wow an interesting case indeed! Didn't last long... 6 years essentially. Also according to wikiFlecco wrote:
@ Oug - Brazilian fascism, known as Integralism. Look it up.
not everyone agreed to this tolerance... Nevertheless! An interesting blend there! I guess asking for racial clarity in Brazil would be perceived as somewhat of a jokeThe fight against Jews was always subject of polemical discussions within integralist leaders - Salgado was against anti-Semitism, while Gustavo Barroso, the chief of Integralist Militia (a paramilitary group), was known for his strong enmity towards the Jews.
ƒ³
I'd counter that fascism in general didn't last long. Corporatism survives today but fascism is dead.oug wrote:
Wow an interesting case indeed! Didn't last long... 6 years essentially. Also according to wikiFlecco wrote:
@ Oug - Brazilian fascism, known as Integralism. Look it up.not everyone agreed to this tolerance... Nevertheless! An interesting blend there! I guess asking for racial clarity in Brazil would be perceived as somewhat of a jokeThe fight against Jews was always subject of polemical discussions within integralist leaders - Salgado was against anti-Semitism, while Gustavo Barroso, the chief of Integralist Militia (a paramilitary group), was known for his strong enmity towards the Jews.
Hadn't heard of him tbh. Then again, every political party has people who disagree with some part or another of the party's policies or charter.
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Not intending to derail (you can reply via PM, if you wish)...oug wrote:
The gathering of wealth is always at the expense of someone else.
But just how do you come to the above conclusion?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
I know. I just mentioned his name to give an example as to why people would hate the jewish community. Having said that, even the jewish community would hate that bastard considering he screwed many of them over too. Now much of the jew gold has escaped the jew cave (lulz cartman)ATG wrote:
Maddof was only a success at being a lowlife thief...teddy..jimmy wrote:
The stereotype that jews stick together may have contributed to the anti-semetic views people hold. It's well known that they are successful but I think many people find them selfish because they generally do keep the wealth within their own community rather than sharing it. The fact that the jewish community is so strong and well established has created this almost alien like image of a group of people terribly uninviting and uninterested in others (south park played on this quite a bit).
Jews are generally quite successful people and this is envied by many which eventually can turn into hatred.
...
Maddof
Simple.
The jews claim to be the supreme race.
For white supremacists to be right the jews have to be wrong, or ash.
The jews claim to be the supreme race.
For white supremacists to be right the jews have to be wrong, or ash.
Fuck Israel
ORLY?Dilbert_X wrote:
Simple.
The jews claim to be the supreme race.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Well firstly, as Kmarion pointed out, many white supremacists do actually labour under the delusion that they are Christians and that hatred of the Jews is in some way justified given that they perceive the Jews as being responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus. As for the atheist white supremacists, well maybe they just accept it as part of the warped image that has been built around white supremacy... because let's face it the Nazis were the ultimate poster boys for white supremacy.
In the wider scheme of things I'd say many white supremacists/racists dislike the Jews for the same reasons that they dislike other ethnic minorities e.g. they are perceived as different (particularly Hasidic Jews and so on), they are often seen as keeping themselves to themselves, marrying within their own community, being very successful and showing nepotism... all those kinds of nasty stereotypes that other minorities suffer from too, like Muslim nurses not washing their hands even though Islamic culture has stricter guidelines on hygeine than Western culture.
Many, many races suffer from bigotry but it must be said that the Jews get more mileage out of their suffering... and given that their race has suffered the most recent blatant genocide attempt I suppose that is to be expected.
In the wider scheme of things I'd say many white supremacists/racists dislike the Jews for the same reasons that they dislike other ethnic minorities e.g. they are perceived as different (particularly Hasidic Jews and so on), they are often seen as keeping themselves to themselves, marrying within their own community, being very successful and showing nepotism... all those kinds of nasty stereotypes that other minorities suffer from too, like Muslim nurses not washing their hands even though Islamic culture has stricter guidelines on hygeine than Western culture.
Many, many races suffer from bigotry but it must be said that the Jews get more mileage out of their suffering... and given that their race has suffered the most recent blatant genocide attempt I suppose that is to be expected.
'They killed Jesus'
etc.
etc.
To be honest, it goes back to the bible. It's not even that they "killed Jesus", but that they refused to accept him as a god, only as a messiah, an thus saw him as human. Jewish people really alienated a lot of Christians in its infancy - I guess there's been a rivalry since..?
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