BF2S Forums Citizens Are Being Deported. Is the Crackdown on Illegal Going to Far?

I guess under your perfect world turq, I would be an immigrant.

Turquoise wrote:

Well, part of the problem would be solved by removing that amazingly easy loophole in our citizenship policy.

Birth on our soil alone should not be what grants citizenship.  At least one parent should have to be a citizen at the time of birth.

That would simplify some of these issues considerably.

So if we instate that rule then there would be numerous people in the United States who are citizens of no country.

Where would we deport them?

No, we need to make it easier to gain citizenship. The reason so many come illegally is because of how hard it is to come legally.

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

So, if there's one mistake out of how many thousands of deportations, it's going too far? 

There are a bunch of illegals living in a canyon near my house and the border patrol won't even bother with them.  It's rare that anyone gets deported.

What's been happening is that people are being rushed out of the country in an effort to avoid the expense of trials or other procedural process. One favorite tactic is to move these people in the middle of the night to detention centers near the border. Often then people are moved more than 1000 miles from locations where their families live and where their lawyers are located. Even the lawyers are not notified of the move and must track down where their clients have been shipped.

While the govt might seek efficiencies by treating these people like cattle, I suspect those cost savings will be more than offset by the pending lawsuits from citizens who are detained and deported. In short, the ins/uscis has no jurisdiction over citizens and no power to detain them let alone deport them.

FEOS wrote:

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Well, part of the problem would be solved by removing that amazingly easy loophole in our citizenship policy.

Birth on our soil alone should not be what grants citizenship.  At least one parent should have to be a citizen at the time of birth.

That would simplify some of these issues considerably.

So if we instate that rule then there would be numerous people in the United States who are citizens of no country.

And just how is that? They would be citizens of wherever their parents are from.

Where would we deport them?

To wherever their parents are from.

No, we need to make it easier to gain citizenship. The reason so many come illegally is because of how hard it is to come legally.

It's easier to take money from a bank than to earn it...so we should make that legal too. Right?

It's easier to rape a woman than to get her to consent to having sex with you...so we should make that legal too. Right?

No?

Weird.

both my parents were (LEGAL) immigrants from two seperate countries when i was born .  According to turqs ideal scenario, what would my citizenship be?

FEOS wrote:

It's easier to take money from a bank than to earn it...so we should make that legal too. Right?

It's easier to rape a woman than to get her to consent to having sex with you...so we should make that legal too. Right?

No?

Weird.

Apples and oranges man. If it wasn't so expensive and time consuming for someone to get a visa or a green card, then people would be more likely to go the legal route. I doubt any illegals here enjoy the fact that if they get arrested for anything they'll end up back in Mexico or Honduras or El Salvador the next night.

I mean shit, I've lived here for 14 years. Had a legal visa the entire time up until last year when I got my permanent residence. Neither me nor my parents have a criminal record (asides from some speeding tickets). My father's employer is considered semi-federal or some shit like that, and he's worked there for ten years. Despite all that, it still took about a year and a half and lots of money in fees and immigration attorneys to get my permanent residence. Imagine how long it takes for someone who has never lived here.

Also, what's the argument in NOT making it easier? "Security"? HELLO, our border has ZERO fucking security at all as it is. If Jose and Maria and Pepe Luis can cross the border with no problems, then I doubt it's much more difficult for al-Qaeda cells to enter as well. Erecting a wall or making a security perimeter AND fixing the broken immigration system would not only make the border more secure, but also make it easier for people to come in legally.

Last edited by Hurricane2k9 (2009-04-14 09:41:12)

Turquoise wrote:

12/f/taiwan wrote:

Man With No Name wrote:

I guess under your perfect world turq, I would be an immigrant.

Well, both of you would have simply gone through the same naturalization process as your parents did.

This isn't some far-fetched idea.  Most First World nations have much stricter citizenship laws than us.

If I'm not mistaken, we are the ONLY country where birth alone can constitute citizenship.

you do realized naturalized citizens dont have the same rights as native born?


this idea is insulting.

Youre saying someone like me could get deported, even though I am a citizen by birth. 

Also, being a non native citizen means you cant run for president or recieve certain security clearences for roles in government or military. 


I guess youre more of an American than I am.

All citizens, regardless of place of birth should have the same rights too.

Man With No Name wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

12/f/taiwan wrote:

Well, both of you would have simply gone through the same naturalization process as your parents did.

This isn't some far-fetched idea.  Most First World nations have much stricter citizenship laws than us.

If I'm not mistaken, we are the ONLY country where birth alone can constitute citizenship.

you do realized naturalized citizens dont have the same rights as native born?

Yes, I do, and I think that should change.  I think that there should only be one kind of citizenship and that once you have it, you should be able to do the same things as someone like me.

What I don't like is having a citizenship process that is easy to exploit.

Man With No Name wrote:

this idea is insulting.

Youre saying someone like me could get deported, even though I am a citizen by birth. 

Also, being a non native citizen means you cant run for president or recieve certain security clearences for roles in government or military. 

I guess youre more of an American than I am.

Again, I didn't say the first part here, and I realize the other parts.

If you are a citizen regardless of how you became one, I don't think you should be able to be deported.  I also don't believe in retroactively changing anyone's citizenship.  And again, I don't think it's right that we limit the presidency and certain clearances to people born here.  Those are antiquated laws that need to change.

I just don't like it how illegals can cross the border, have a kid here, and then that kid is automatically a citizen.  That's bullshit, and no other nation allows that.

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

FEOS wrote:

It's easier to take money from a bank than to earn it...so we should make that legal too. Right?

It's easier to rape a woman than to get her to consent to having sex with you...so we should make that legal too. Right?

No?

Weird.

Apples and oranges man. If it wasn't so expensive and time consuming for someone to get a visa or a green card, then people would be more likely to go the legal route. I doubt any illegals here enjoy the fact that if they get arrested for anything they'll end up back in Mexico or Honduras or El Salvador the next night.

I mean shit, I've lived here for 14 years. Had a legal visa the entire time up until last year when I got my permanent residence. Neither me nor my parents have a criminal record (asides from some speeding tickets). My father's employer is considered semi-federal or some shit like that, and he's worked there for ten years. Despite all that, it still took about a year and a half and lots of money in fees and immigration attorneys to get my permanent residence. Imagine how long it takes for someone who has never lived here.

Also, what's the argument in NOT making it easier? "Security"? HELLO, our border has ZERO fucking security at all as it is. If Jose and Maria and Pepe Luis can cross the border with no problems, then I doubt it's much more difficult for al-Qaeda cells to enter as well. Erecting a wall or making a security perimeter AND fixing the broken immigration system would not only make the border more secure, but also make it easier for people to come in legally.

No. It's not apples and oranges. At worst, it's apples and pears.

I don't care that you don't like the law. It's the law. Follow it or get deported if you're not a citizen.

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

FEOS wrote:

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

That still doesn't answer why we can't make it easier for these people to get in.

They want to live here without fear of deportation, and we want them to pay taxes, it is a much better alternative to the current situation.

That's a different situation altogether. That's not making excuses for someone choosing to break the law.

You don't get to not follow the law simply because you don't agree with it.

You still aren't giving a reason as to why it needs to be so difficult to legally immigrate.

I never said it did need to be so difficult. That isn't the issue under debate...at least not as I was responding to your post. The issue is people using "it's hard" as justification for not following the law. That's utter bullshit and a weakdick excuse. If it was easy, they'd call it bowling.

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Man With No Name wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

All citizens, regardless of whether they're natural born or have been naturalized, should be protected from deportation.

go back to your country

I hope Turquoise's dream comes true so you have to go back to yours, mwahahaha

I dont want to go back to florida.

Ahhh yes, and oldie but a goodie.

Last edited by Agent_Dung_Bomb (2009-04-15 09:23:53)