back when MadTV was actually funny.Man With No Name wrote:
and did absolutely nothing to avoid it, whats the big deal? Why make a martyr out of someone who did nothing to avoid his doom? People died on the cross before and after, Im sure many of them were innocent of any crime.
if everything that happened was supposed to happen, whats the big deal?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKJonM0fM54
“Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34).KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Jesus was God in the flesh of man. He was made in man's image to show the world that God was willing to offer an ultimate sacrifice for the sins of humanity. It was as if God sent Jesus to sort of clean the slate for all the sins created by humanity since the Old Testament. That action (God sending his son as a sacrifice for humanity) was supposed to convince man that we too had to sacrifice for our sins, and to convince man that God was not the spiteful God of the Old Testament, but a loving God who so loved the world he gave up his only son blah blah... (John 3:16).DBBrinson1 wrote:
I think it had something to do with... Eventhough he knew he was going to die, it was by his own free choosing to do so -he could have avoided it.
But don't quote me on this.
It's not that Jesus knew his fate and did nothing to change it, it was as if it could not happen any other way - he was "programmed" to do so for the sake of humanity.
“My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46)
“Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit” (Luke 23:46).
That's the thing I guess. Interpretation.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
At least he only had to go through the whole crucifixion thing for a few hours thanks to the Romans with the spear, rather than the day or two.some_random_panda wrote:
Well, if you had nails put through your hands/wrists and feet then hauled up by said nails after getting flogged and beaten to the extent you need someone to help carry your method of dying, I don't think you'd give two shits whether you were going to see the world afterwards or not. There is a difference between getting shot and getting held up by nails.Flecco wrote:
When you're immortal, you know you're immortal, and you know you're headed for heaven no matter what, and heaven is meant to be the perfect place, then I can't really see dying as such a biggy.
Or to put it more simply, if you had to cut your testicles in half with a blunt, rusty razor in the knowledge that they would grow back after you'd finished mutilating them, would you care about whether or not you were cutting them in the first place?
I wouldn't be happy with it at all, but then again I hadn't claimed to be God's son/God walking the earth ect.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Did anyone watch the Colbert report tonight? Is that where the op inspiration came from?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
That argument is only valid from a 21st century Western logic. We often forget that the concept of logic itself has been a (pre-Christian Greek) cultural development, in which two things are often mutually exclusive. Egyptian mythology, for example, shows many inconcistansies which we would classify as 'unlogical'. However in their contemporary understanding two different versions of a story could be true at the same time.Turquoise wrote:
The game is rigged if the guy who created it knew the outcome before it even happened and has the power to set things up however he wants.
I suggest you get a bit into old Norse mythology if you're interested in the subject. It completely revolts about the idea that the Gods know exactly how everything will end, in details, yet do everything in their might to avoid/postpone it.
You stay up late.... .Kmarion wrote:
Did anyone watch the Colbert report tonight? Is that where the op inspiration came from?
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
You forget the imprisonment and torture beforehand. It took more than a few hours.Flecco wrote:
At least he only had to go through the whole crucifixion thing for a few hours thanks to the Romans with the spear, rather than the day or two.some_random_panda wrote:
Well, if you had nails put through your hands/wrists and feet then hauled up by said nails after getting flogged and beaten to the extent you need someone to help carry your method of dying, I don't think you'd give two shits whether you were going to see the world afterwards or not. There is a difference between getting shot and getting held up by nails.Flecco wrote:
When you're immortal, you know you're immortal, and you know you're headed for heaven no matter what, and heaven is meant to be the perfect place, then I can't really see dying as such a biggy.
Or to put it more simply, if you had to cut your testicles in half with a blunt, rusty razor in the knowledge that they would grow back after you'd finished mutilating them, would you care about whether or not you were cutting them in the first place?
I wouldn't be happy with it at all, but then again I hadn't claimed to be God's son/God walking the earth ect.
Then why tell anyone the word? If you can't be damned out of ignorance, then you might as well keep others ignorant.FEOS wrote:
Nope. Those who haven't heard the Word of God aren't held responsible for not following it.
Actually, the nails where put throught the wrists. There being two bones(you can feel them yourself) makes it less likely to tear and then you fall off. You are in the shape of a Y instead of a T so you are really suffocating and you have to hold yourslef up(hence feet nailed to a small angled platform. When you are too weak to hold yourself up or the Romans break your legs, whichever comes first, then you suffocate. A spear was put through Jesus's side to make shure he was dead. The point is that at anytime Jesus could have just done as you say and taken himself down from the cross and healed himself or done whatever.some_random_panda wrote:
Well, if you had nails put through your hands/wrists and feet then hauled up by said nails after getting flogged and beaten to the extent you need someone to help carry your method of dying, I don't think you'd give two shits whether you were going to see the world afterwards or not. There is a difference between getting shot and getting held up by nails.Flecco wrote:
When you're immortal, you know you're immortal, and you know you're headed for heaven no matter what, and heaven is meant to be the perfect place, then I can't really see dying as such a biggy.
Or to put it more simply, if you had to cut your testicles in half with a blunt, rusty razor in the knowledge that they would grow back after you'd finished mutilating them, would you care about whether or not you were cutting them in the first place?
Because some guy allegedly coming back from the dead is a bit of a talking point perhaps?Turquoise wrote:
Then why tell anyone the word? If you can't be damned out of ignorance, then you might as well keep others ignorant.FEOS wrote:
Nope. Those who haven't heard the Word of God aren't held responsible for not following it.
But if the talking point results in eternal damnation if you don't believe in it.... I'd rather not have someone tell me about it.Bell wrote:
Because some guy allegedly coming back from the dead is a bit of a talking point perhaps?Turquoise wrote:
Then why tell anyone the word? If you can't be damned out of ignorance, then you might as well keep others ignorant.FEOS wrote:
Nope. Those who haven't heard the Word of God aren't held responsible for not following it.
If I were a Christian and truly believed in this interpretation of things, I'd actually fight missionaries as much as possible, because I wouldn't want to see people go to hell for just not believing something.
Surely irrelevent, unless you hold the position that you will indeed be damned. Which I dont hold too myself, scripture is very specific about judging your fellow man.Turquoise wrote:
But if the talking point results in eternal damnation if you don't believe in it.... I'd rather not have someone tell me about it.
If that where the case you would be contradicing yourself since if you truly believed in this interpretation of things you would recall the parable of the master and three servants.Turquoise wrote:
If I were a Christian and truly believed in this interpretation of things, I'd actually fight missionaries as much as possible, because I wouldn't want to see people go to hell for just not believing something.
Not quite as simple as belief either, luciferians believe in Jesus for instance, again, I don't judge but somehow I think the atheist, will stand in better sted at simply disbeliving, than out rightly battling against God.
Last edited by Bell (2009-04-10 10:07:48)
Interesting points. I suppose as an atheist, I can't say it moves me to any specific action, but it does make a little more sense out of the Christian viewpoint.Bell wrote:
Surely irrelevent, unless you hold the position that you will indeed be damned. Which I dont hold too myself, scripture is very specific about judging your fellow man.Turquoise wrote:
But if the talking point results in eternal damnation if you don't believe in it.... I'd rather not have someone tell me about it.If that where the case you would be contradicing yourself since if you truly believed in this interpretation of things you would recall the parable of the master and three servants.Turquoise wrote:
If I were a Christian and truly believed in this interpretation of things, I'd actually fight missionaries as much as possible, because I wouldn't want to see people go to hell for just not believing something.
Not quite as simple as belief either, luciferians believe in Jesus for instance, again, I don't judge but somehow I think the atheist, will stand in better sted at simply disbeliving, than out rightly battling against God.
Because they will be happier and live better lives here if they follow the word.Turquoise wrote:
Then why tell anyone the word? If you can't be damned out of ignorance, then you might as well keep others ignorant.FEOS wrote:
Nope. Those who haven't heard the Word of God aren't held responsible for not following it.
Don't try to get me to explain the logic behind it, as there is none. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a religion.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
I've been baptized, comfirmed and I barely know what Jesus did.
technically he's a bastard if mary gave birth to him without getting her cherry popped.
technically he's a bastard if mary gave birth to him without getting her cherry popped.
Actually, he was born after Mary and Joseph were married, so he wouldn't be a bastard...teddy..jimmy wrote:
I've been baptized, comfirmed and I barely know what Jesus did.
technically he's a bastard if mary gave birth to him without getting her cherry popped.
Joseph may be a bit slow for buying the whole "I didn't have sex" argument, though.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
waiittt...so jesus isn't god's son?FEOS wrote:
Actually, he was born after Mary and Joseph were married, so he wouldn't be a bastard...teddy..jimmy wrote:
I've been baptized, comfirmed and I barely know what Jesus did.
technically he's a bastard if mary gave birth to him without getting her cherry popped.
Joseph may be a bit slow for buying the whole "I didn't have sex" argument, though.
We needed a guy named Jesus to be our martyr. I don't wan't to praise someone named Chuck
I never said that...teddy..jimmy wrote:
waiittt...so jesus isn't god's son?FEOS wrote:
Actually, he was born after Mary and Joseph were married, so he wouldn't be a bastard...teddy..jimmy wrote:
I've been baptized, comfirmed and I barely know what Jesus did.
technically he's a bastard if mary gave birth to him without getting her cherry popped.
Joseph may be a bit slow for buying the whole "I didn't have sex" argument, though.
And depending on who you talk to, Jesus is either God's son...or is God himself. Or, if you're Mormon, he's a really good Mormon's son.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Ah k. I thought he was stabbed long before he died though, during the first few hours of his time hanging off the cross.NAthANSmitt wrote:
Actually, the nails where put throught the wrists. There being two bones(you can feel them yourself) makes it less likely to tear and then you fall off. You are in the shape of a Y instead of a T so you are really suffocating and you have to hold yourslef up(hence feet nailed to a small angled platform. When you are too weak to hold yourself up or the Romans break your legs, whichever comes first, then you suffocate. A spear was put through Jesus's side to make shure he was dead. The point is that at anytime Jesus could have just done as you say and taken himself down from the cross and healed himself or done whatever.some_random_panda wrote:
Well, if you had nails put through your hands/wrists and feet then hauled up by said nails after getting flogged and beaten to the extent you need someone to help carry your method of dying, I don't think you'd give two shits whether you were going to see the world afterwards or not. There is a difference between getting shot and getting held up by nails.Flecco wrote:
When you're immortal, you know you're immortal, and you know you're headed for heaven no matter what, and heaven is meant to be the perfect place, then I can't really see dying as such a biggy.
Or to put it more simply, if you had to cut your testicles in half with a blunt, rusty razor in the knowledge that they would grow back after you'd finished mutilating them, would you care about whether or not you were cutting them in the first place?
Seriously though, he's meant to be the God, what would a day of pain mean to him given that he's part of a being that is omnipotent and omnipresent. An immortal, everlasting, all-powerful being. He supposedly knew he was part of the trinity so I don't think he has any right at all to whine, the whole immortality, 3 day resurrection etc etc...SRP wrote:
You forget the imprisonment and torture beforehand. It took more than a few hours.
All that kinda makes up for a two day stretch of pain.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Doublethink as in 1984.Lai wrote:
That argument is only valid from a 21st century Western logic. We often forget that the concept of logic itself has been a (pre-Christian Greek) cultural development, in which two things are often mutually exclusive. Egyptian mythology, for example, shows many inconcistansies which we would classify as 'unlogical'. However in their contemporary understanding two different versions of a story could be true at the same time.Turquoise wrote:
The game is rigged if the guy who created it knew the outcome before it even happened and has the power to set things up however he wants.
I suggest you get a bit into old Norse mythology if you're interested in the subject. It completely revolts about the idea that the Gods know exactly how everything will end, in details, yet do everything in their might to avoid/postpone it.
Nineteen-Eighty-Four*nickb64 wrote:
Doublethink as in 1984.Lai wrote:
That argument is only valid from a 21st century Western logic. We often forget that the concept of logic itself has been a (pre-Christian Greek) cultural development, in which two things are often mutually exclusive. Egyptian mythology, for example, shows many inconcistansies which we would classify as 'unlogical'. However in their contemporary understanding two different versions of a story could be true at the same time.Turquoise wrote:
The game is rigged if the guy who created it knew the outcome before it even happened and has the power to set things up however he wants.
I suggest you get a bit into old Norse mythology if you're interested in the subject. It completely revolts about the idea that the Gods know exactly how everything will end, in details, yet do everything in their might to avoid/postpone it.
Also, doublethink is easy.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Jesus is both God's Son and God himself.FEOS wrote:
I never said that.
And depending on who you talk to, Jesus is either God's son...or is God himself. Or, if you're Mormon, he's a really good Mormon's son.
It depends on your denomination's interpretation.nickb64 wrote:
Jesus is both God's Son and God himself.FEOS wrote:
I never said that.
And depending on who you talk to, Jesus is either God's son...or is God himself. Or, if you're Mormon, he's a really good Mormon's son.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Lutheran ftwFEOS wrote:
It depends on your denomination's interpretation.nickb64 wrote:
Jesus is both God's Son and God himself.FEOS wrote:
I never said that.
And depending on who you talk to, Jesus is either God's son...or is God himself. Or, if you're Mormon, he's a really good Mormon's son.
Last edited by nickb64 (2009-04-10 20:12:40)