BF2S Forums Is the New Isareli Government on the verge of messing up the peace?

Mekstizzle wrote:

Man With No Name wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Sif derail. Btw MOAB did you ever hear about the grenade on your helmet test? Apparently the Waffen SS used to test NCOs for courage by standing a potato masher on their helmet vertically and pull the pin. The soldier then had to stand dead still until it detonated. If he moved the grenade would drop off his helmet and seriously injure/kill him, if he stood perfectly still it would go off and leave him with sore ears, but little else in the way of harm.

sounds more like a stupidity test to me,

That can't be real it would surely kill them no matter what. I doubt a helmet could protect the head from a grenade blast like....  30cm away from it (if the NCO managed to keep it balanced ontop). Not even those super modern helmets they use today would probably protect the head from that, especially cos that stick grenade was one of those shockwave grenades instead of the frag grenade

The W-SS were just a unit of Nazi Germany that consisted of the core Nazi principles and even then that was abandoned, people like to think they were an "elite" unit but they really weren't

They just did a lot of bad Nazi shit

usmarine wrote:

sigh...

this conflict started before your lifetime and will continue past your lifetimes.  so unless you are in israel, palestine, lebanon, egypt, etc...... what the fuck are you arguing for?

usmarine wrote:

rammunition wrote:

usmarine wrote:

sigh...

this conflict started before your lifetime and will continue past your lifetimes.  so unless you are in israel, palestine, lebanon, egypt, etc...... what the fuck are you arguing for?

lol, get educated. This conflict started when the Zionism movement began, what is israel today was under OTTOMAN occupation with a MUSLIM MAJORITY before the empire fell. Then zionist apologists proposed a jewish state on people who had nothing to do with killing jews in europe.

ummmm...ok?  how does that contradict what I said?

rammunition wrote:

usmarine wrote:

rammunition wrote:

lol, get educated. This conflict started when the Zionism movement began, what is israel today was under OTTOMAN occupation with a MUSLIM MAJORITY before the empire fell. Then zionist apologists proposed a jewish state on people who had nothing to do with killing jews in europe.

ummmm...ok?  how does that contradict what I said?

i believe you were suggesting the typical apologist excuss of "this conflict has been going on for 3000 years"

rammunition wrote:

ATG wrote:

rammunition wrote:

i believe you were suggesting the typical apologist excuss of "this conflict has been going on for 3000 years"

And I believe you are arguing the historically ignorant notion that there was no problem before 1948.

You probably think the king of Jordan didn't use artillery to kill tens of thousands of pallestinians too.

there was no problem before the zionism movement began, when mass immigration to the so called holy land by jews, starting before the 1900's.

Flecco wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

Man With No Name wrote:

sounds more like a stupidity test to me,

That can't be real it would surely kill them no matter what. I doubt a helmet could protect the head from a grenade blast like....  30cm away from it (if the NCO managed to keep it balanced ontop). Not even those super modern helmets they use today would probably protect the head from that, especially cos that stick grenade was one of those shockwave grenades instead of the frag grenade

The W-SS were just a unit of Nazi Germany that consisted of the core Nazi principles and even then that was abandoned, people like to think they were an "elite" unit but they really weren't

They just did a lot of bad Nazi shit

Yes because Max Hastings is a terribly unreliable source for information on the history of the European theatre of WW2 isn't he. I did say I'm not sure on it being true at all and I'm pretty sure the book I read about it in also mentioned that it was anecdotal evidence and unverified. Ffs.

Bertster7 wrote:

FEOS wrote:

rammunition wrote:

lol, get educated. This conflict started when the Zionism movement began, what is israel today was under OTTOMAN occupation with a MUSLIM MAJORITY before the empire fell. Then zionist apologists proposed a jewish state on people who had nothing to do with killing jews in europe.

Perhaps you should educate yourself on the European support to the Zionist movement pre-WW2, focused on getting Jews out of Europe.

Or you could continue to think it's a simple issue, involving only the Zionists and the indigenous population in that region.

Which European support would that be?

They didn't have European support for the Zionist movement. Support for medium scale immigration of Jews to Palestine is hardly the same thing. It was the British running the whole affair and they actually imposed naval blockades to restrict Jewish immigration to Palestine pre-WWII.

There was far greater European support for the Arab populace pre-WWII than for the Zionist movement. The agreement with Hussein that Palestine should become an independent Arab administered state. There were statements from the cabinet post-Balfour declaration (there is a very pertinent one from Lord Curzon) which indicated that Palestine was still included in the agreement with Sharif Hussein and as far as Britain were concerned was to be under independent Arab rule following the expiration of the mandate. A combination of factors caused this not to happen; WWII sympathy, US pressure and, most importantly, the terror campaign conducted by Zionists targeting Arabs and the occupying British forces.

Bertster7 wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Which European support would that be?

They didn't have European support for the Zionist movement. Support for medium scale immigration of Jews to Palestine is hardly the same thing. It was the British running the whole affair and they actually imposed naval blockades to restrict Jewish immigration to Palestine pre-WWII.

There was far greater European support for the Arab populace pre-WWII than for the Zionist movement. The agreement with Hussein that Palestine should become an independent Arab administered state. There were statements from the cabinet post-Balfour declaration (there is a very pertinent one from Lord Curzon) which indicated that Palestine was still included in the agreement with Sharif Hussein and as far as Britain were concerned was to be under independent Arab rule following the expiration of the mandate. A combination of factors caused this not to happen; WWII sympathy, US pressure and, most importantly, the terror campaign conducted by Zionists targeting Arabs and the occupying British forces.

Perhaps you should read "Human Smoke" then. It's in there, clear as can be.

Germany wanted the Jews sent to anywhere other than Europe--Madagascar was one, South America another. The Zionist movement was convenient to their aims and supported by Germany and other countries (like Britain and the US). Of course, lost in all that is that the European countries wanted the Jews out of Europe, period. In addition to Zionism, other Jewish relocation efforts were endorsed publicly and privately by most of the major European powers at the time.

It's a bigger issue than Palestine.

Unfortunately, I gave the book to a co-worker, so I can't quote it explicitly.

There was support for relocation of the Jews, absolutely. The British initially proposed a number of regions for a Jewish state, including Uganda. The Zionist movement was not popular with the British since their aims conflicted with prior public responsibilities the British had committed themselves to. The Zionists wanted a Jewish state of Israel (in Palestine - and this only became clear after immigration had begun), Britain had promised the Arabs an independent Arab state (which is the primary reason, combined with general animosity over military restrictions to Jewish immigration, for Zionist terrorist activity targeting the British).

Whilst there was support by a number of key individuals within the British cabinet and royal family, the overall government line was not one of support for the Zionists, particularly in the wake of the Hope-Simpson report.

Perhaps you could be a bit more specific than just saying the Europeans supported the Zionist movement - which as a whole, they did not - at least in the terms you seem to suggest. There was almost unilateral support for a Jewish homeland - but not for a Jewish state in Palestine.

Sharif Hussein (whom I mentioned earlier) was a supporter of Zionism. His son issued this statement:

Emir Faisal wrote:

The Arabs, especially the educated among us, look with deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement....We will wish the Jews a hearty welcome home....We are working together for a reformed and revised Near East and our two movements complete one another. The Jewish movement is nationalist and not imperialist. ...Indeed, I think that neither can be a real success without the other

The problems really began when the Jewish agency started misbehaving when they got to Palestine (this is still long before WWII). Their actions turned a previously welcoming Arab populace against them and there the trouble starts.

Flecco wrote:

Western World didn't take no shit from anybody back then. We were total bastards.

Bertster wrote:

There was almost unilateral support for a Jewish homeland - but not for a Jewish state in Palestine.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-04-09 01:08:51)

Lai wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Bertster wrote:

There was almost unilateral support for a Jewish homeland - but not for a Jewish state in Palestine.

There was general support for the jews having a homeland in Palestine.
This pretty much ended when it became obvious they wanted their own country encompassing all of Palestine, parts of neighbouring countries and to ethnically cleanse or exterminate the Palestinians - who had been living there peacefully with Jews, Christians and Muslims for the previous 2,000 years.

IIRC This was part of Hitler's motivation for the final solution, he wanted them out of Germany but didn't want them taking over the holy land either.

WTF?

Last edited by Flecco (2009-04-09 01:48:32)