BF2S Forums Is the New Isareli Government on the verge of messing up the peace?

Lai wrote:

What peace?

Exactly, the title should have read "Is the new Israeli Government going to make an already shitty situation even shittier?".

How tall a wall would you have build to stop rocket attacks?
Until that happens or the Palenstinian govt is willing/able to control its citizens they will provide Israel with all the excuse it needs to atack and move its settlements further in. A new hardline govt in Israel isn't going to help the situation any.

rammunition wrote:

My title was better

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=123735

EVERYONE.  GIVE THIS GUY ATTENTION!

I'm not confusing the SS with anyone, they were a separate organisation, used as crack troops, given the best equipment, indoctrination of racial supremacy and a free hand to do whatever they liked to whoever they liked.

Pretty much on a par with the IDF today.

Thats how they were regarded by both sides, whether its true or not.
Excepting that the analogy is still apt, the military wing of a racist genocidal organisation bent on land theft, ethnic cleansing, pogroms and terror.

At least I can reach.

They're perfect analogies, you just don't like them.

Whatever, the SS were held up in Germany as crack troops, given the best equipment, feared by their opponents and did a lot of nasty shit.
Seems pretty apt TBH.

Actually the Waffen SS did have some of the best training on earth at the time. In particular, the way they trained NCOs. There are some pretty crazy stories including NCOs having to dig a slit trench in damp ground while a tank drove toward them at a reasonable pace, the idea being if you don't dig the trench fast enough you're fucked. That one I can possibly believe, the one I heard about the hand grenade on helmet as a courage test......

Yeah, I'd say an exaggeration or tall tail.

Had a book on the topic, Das Reich by Max Hastings, that focused on the Das Reich Waffen-SS division but spoke broadly about the SS-VT as a whole. Explains how they started as an underfunded and poorly organised fighting force that was far too eager, with poor small arms, generally acquired from the stockpiles of annexed nations, including the Czech light machine-gun that the British cloned for use. After their performance in Poland and reorganisation that resulted they became a much more effective force. Slowly they gained momentum and notoriety until finally they became the 'favoured' or most notorious fighting force the Nazis had at their disposal. Nazi Germany's best unit imo was the Luftwaffe's Fallschrimjager but that's another discussion.

Racial 'purity' did play a big part in recruitment with blonds preferred in recruiting and a strict medical screening, that said most Commonwealth country's military forces have massively strict medical entry requirements for combat roles now days.

M.O.A.B wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Actually the Waffen SS did have some of the best training on earth at the time. In particular, the way they trained NCOs. There are some pretty crazy stories including NCOs having to dig a slit trench in damp ground while a tank drove toward them at a reasonable pace, the idea being if you don't dig the trench fast enough you're fucked. That one I can possibly believe, the one I heard about the hand grenade on helmet as a courage test......

Yeah, I'd say an exaggeration or tall tail.

Had a book on the topic, Das Reich by Max Hastings, that focused on the Das Reich Waffen-SS division but spoke broadly about the SS-VT as a whole. Explains how they started as an underfunded and poorly organised fighting force that was far too eager, with poor small arms, generally acquired from the stockpiles of annexed nations, including the Czech light machine-gun that the British cloned for use. After their performance in Poland and reorganisation that resulted they became a much more effective force. Slowly they gained momentum and notoriety until finally they became the 'favoured' or most notorious fighting force the Nazis had at their disposal. Nazi Germany's best unit imo was the Luftwaffe's Fallschrimjager but that's another discussion.

Racial 'purity' did play a big part in recruitment with blonds preferred in recruiting and a strict medical screening, that said most Commonwealth country's military forces have massively strict medical entry requirements for combat roles now days.

I would say that the Fallschrimjager were the best German troops as well like. Particularly for some of their raids, like the one with Mussolini on the mountain top.

Operation: Market-Garden and what the Fallschrimjager accomplished with the depleted and decrepit units alongside them there was amazing.

Sif derail. Btw MOAB did you ever hear about the grenade on your helmet test? Apparently the Waffen SS used to test NCOs for courage by standing a potato masher on their helmet vertically and pull the pin. The soldier then had to stand dead still until it detonated. If he moved the grenade would drop off his helmet and seriously injure/kill him, if he stood perfectly still it would go off and leave him with sore ears, but little else in the way of harm.

Flecco wrote:

Sif derail. Btw MOAB did you ever hear about the grenade on your helmet test? Apparently the Waffen SS used to test NCOs for courage by standing a potato masher on their helmet vertically and pull the pin. The soldier then had to stand dead still until it detonated. If he moved the grenade would drop off his helmet and seriously injure/kill him, if he stood perfectly still it would go off and leave him with sore ears, but little else in the way of harm.

That's new to me at least. I don't know what I find more stunning though; the toughness of the respective NCO's or the apparent toughness of the design of the stahlhelm.

Flecco wrote:

Actually the Waffen SS did have some of the best training on earth at the time. In particular, the way they trained NCOs. There are some pretty crazy stories including NCOs having to dig a slit trench in damp ground while a tank drove toward them at a reasonable pace, the idea being if you don't dig the trench fast enough you're fucked. That one I can possibly believe, the one I heard about the hand grenade on helmet as a courage test......

Yeah, I'd say an exaggeration or tall tail.

Had a book on the topic, Das Reich by Max Hastings, that focused on the Das Reich Waffen-SS division but spoke broadly about the SS-VT as a whole. Explains how they started as an underfunded and poorly organised fighting force that was far too eager, with poor small arms, generally acquired from the stockpiles of annexed nations, including the Czech light machine-gun that the British cloned for use. After their performance in Poland and reorganisation that resulted they became a much more effective force. Slowly they gained momentum and notoriety until finally they became the 'favoured' or most notorious fighting force the Nazis had at their disposal. Nazi Germany's best unit imo was the Luftwaffe's Fallschrimjager but that's another discussion.

Racial 'purity' did play a big part in recruitment with blonds preferred in recruiting and a strict medical screening, that said most Commonwealth country's military forces have massively strict medical entry requirements for combat roles now days.

One must read between the lines and compare to Wehrmacht and other armies' training and equipping.

The SS (even the Waffen SS who were the most "professional soldiers" of the SS) held loyalty above ability. Membership wasn't about the profession of arms, it was about belief in racial purity. Yes, they got the newest (which doesn't always mean best) equipment, but their training was not markedly better than the Wehrmact's. They were put in the lead for glory, not for ability.

Based on their actions (which were doctrinal for them), they were far from professional.

And thus the comparison breaks down. The IDF is nothing whatsoever like the SS.

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

The IDF is nothing whatsoever like the SS.

Find me a non-jewish senior officer in the IDF and your theory might hold water.

So because the vast majority of the IDF is Jewish, in a predominantly Jewish country, where the main religion is Judaism, they're exactly the same as the SS? Guess that means the Syrian, Saudi, Iranian, Egyptian and other ME armies are like the SS as well, considering they will all be predominantly Muslim soldiers.