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2009-04-01 20:07:30
destruktion_6143
Was ist Loos?
+154|6929|Canada
Since Ramm was less than polite in his titled thread, i have decided to repost...a bit more politely.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 977002.stm


Israel's new ultra-nationalist foreign minister has said it is not bound by a US-sponsored 2007 agreement to reach a peace deal with the Palestinians.
"The Annapolis conference, it has no validity," Avigdor Lieberman said.
He was speaking at a handover ceremony at the foreign ministry, prompting his predecessor Tzipi Livni to interrupt and diplomats to shift uncomfortably.
At Annapolis, each side agreed to further discussions aimed at creating an independent Palestinian state.
Palestinian officials described Mr Lieberman as an "obstacle to peace" whose policies would rebound negatively on Israel.
Discuss.


p.s. No ranting or raving please, this is not meant to be an extension of the closed topic.
2009-04-01 20:35:47
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6831|Global Command
Sounded like he is willing to talk.


btw,  got eye on thread.
Just report any issues or holdovers.
2009-04-01 21:22:22
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7064

ummm...how is israel messing it up?  takes two to tango no?

Last edited by usmarine (2009-04-01 21:22:40)

2009-04-01 21:38:03
Narupug
Fodder Mostly
+150|5899|Vacationland
Any peace is welcome at this stage I mean this has gone on too long
Here's a relic of the middles east problems from the 90's
http://www.capsteps.com/sounds/netanyah … odeala.mp3
CAP STEPS FTW!!!

Last edited by Narupug (2009-04-01 21:40:45)

2009-04-01 21:38:51
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7064

and if you think there can be any peace there to mess up, then i feel bad for you.
2009-04-01 22:34:38
destruktion_6143
Was ist Loos?
+154|6929|Canada

usmarine wrote:

and if you think there can be any peace there to mess up, then i feel bad for you.
bingo. my thoughts exactly. how can one mess up peace when there was never any to begin with... we need to remember that no matter what, as long as there are one of the two parties, there will never be peace. their hatred for eachother is indoctrinated from youth. they grow up bigotted and have irrational hate.
2009-04-01 22:43:03
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7068|Cambridge (UK)

destruktion_6143 wrote:

usmarine wrote:

and if you think there can be any peace there to mess up, then i feel bad for you.
bingo. my thoughts exactly. how can one mess up peace when there was never any to begin with... we need to remember that no matter what, as long as there are one of the two parties, there will never be peace. their hatred for eachother is indoctrinated from youth. they grow up bigotted and have irrational hate.
We used to think that about certain parts of the British Isles...
2009-04-01 23:50:53
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6408|eXtreme to the maX
The Israelis have no intention of making peace with the Palestinians and never have.
Unless 'making peace' means all the Palestinians leaving Palestine and unconditionally gifting their land to the Israelis.
They want bits of Jordan and Lebanon too.

If the Israelis don't make peace, on reasonable terms, pretty soon they are going to lose the option.
Fuck Israel
2009-04-01 23:52:50
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6903|132 and Bush

People on both sides have a vested interest in chaos.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2009-04-02 03:29:36
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6713|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

The Israelis have no intention of making peace with the Palestinians and never have.
Unless 'making peace' means all the Palestinians leaving Palestine and unconditionally gifting their land to the Israelis.
They want bits of Jordan and Lebanon too.

If the Israelis don't make peace, on reasonable terms, pretty soon they are going to lose the option.
Switch "Israeli" with "Palestinian" (and vice versa) and the argument is just as valid.

That is the problem.

Last edited by FEOS (2009-04-02 03:29:54)

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2009-04-02 11:07:34
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6884|SE London

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The Israelis have no intention of making peace with the Palestinians and never have.
Unless 'making peace' means all the Palestinians leaving Palestine and unconditionally gifting their land to the Israelis.
They want bits of Jordan and Lebanon too.

If the Israelis don't make peace, on reasonable terms, pretty soon they are going to lose the option.
Switch "Israeli" with "Palestinian" (and vice versa) and the argument is just as valid.

That is the problem.
If you were just talking Hamas then I'd probably agree. With Fatah I don't think that's the case - and they have control of much more of the OTs than Hamas do.

usmarine wrote:

ummm...how is israel messing it up?  takes two to tango no?
They made a load of agreements not to do illegal stuff, like building settlements in Palestinian territory, now they've decided they don't like following the agreements and have decided they're not bound by them. That's how they're messing it up (this time).
2009-04-02 15:00:30
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6707|North Carolina
We should strike up a deal with Israel.

We'll agree to not intervene at all, no matter what happens between Israel and its neighbors.

However, we'll also stop funding and arming Israel, and we'll end all foreign aid to all Middle Eastern countries (other than Iraq and Afghanistan).

This would seem to be the most cost effective deal involving this mess.

Last edited by Turquoise (2009-04-02 15:01:01)

2009-04-02 15:10:22
Trotskygrad
бля
+354|6301|Vortex Ring State

Turquoise wrote:

We should strike up a deal with Israel.

We'll agree to not intervene at all, no matter what happens between Israel and its neighbors.

However, we'll also stop funding and arming Israel, and we'll end all foreign aid to all Middle Eastern countries (other than Iraq and Afghanistan).

This would seem to be the most cost effective deal involving this mess.
^ This method FTW.

BUT, it ignores a lot of factors. First of all, Israeli sympathizers in the US will probably still shuffle US arms to israel, considering what the Irish American's did with the M82 and the IRA. Second of all, it would be a very unpopular deal with the US jewish community, since every single synagogue I pass has a "we stand with Israel" sign in front. Third, the Palestinians would probably end up being squished in between Israel, and the other Arab states (the wouldn't let them in in the past, they won't let them in now). Then the situation would be human rights violations all around. Better, no?

So, we should put in a 2 state solution with armed Palestinians, and let them duke it out. After all, that seems to be the only solution.
2009-04-02 15:15:20
Rohirm
Fear is a Leash
+85|6474|New Austin, Not
Both sides can blow each other to hell for all I care seeing both are as guilty as the other for fucking up the peace process.
2009-04-02 15:15:43
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6707|North Carolina

fermatx wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

We should strike up a deal with Israel.

We'll agree to not intervene at all, no matter what happens between Israel and its neighbors.

However, we'll also stop funding and arming Israel, and we'll end all foreign aid to all Middle Eastern countries (other than Iraq and Afghanistan).

This would seem to be the most cost effective deal involving this mess.
^ This method FTW.

BUT, it ignores a lot of factors. First of all, Israeli sympathizers in the US will probably still shuffle US arms to israel, considering what the Irish American's did with the M82 and the IRA. Second of all, it would be a very unpopular deal with the US jewish community, since every single synagogue I pass has a "we stand with Israel" sign in front. Third, the Palestinians would probably end up being squished in between Israel, and the other Arab states (the wouldn't let them in in the past, they won't let them in now). Then the situation would be human rights violations all around. Better, no?

So, we should put in a 2 state solution with armed Palestinians, and let them duke it out. After all, that seems to be the only solution.
Good points, but we need to tell all the ultra-Zionists to fuck themselves.  I know Zionists of every flavor (Jewish and non-Jewish) have a lot of power in things like AIPAC, but all we really have to do is stand up to them and say, "If you want to fund them, you can, but you aren't getting any of my tax money."

If voters were more vigilant about refusing to send our money to countries that don't need or deserve it, we'd have a lot less problems.

As for human rights...  well, oh well...  The worst human rights abuses are happening in Africa and Southeast Asia anyway.  We haven't done much about those, so why should the Palestinians take precedence?

I mean, shit, Sudan would be a better starting point for action regarding human rights.
2009-04-03 02:18:54
rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6164

fermatx wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

We should strike up a deal with Israel.

We'll agree to not intervene at all, no matter what happens between Israel and its neighbors.

However, we'll also stop funding and arming Israel, and we'll end all foreign aid to all Middle Eastern countries (other than Iraq and Afghanistan).

This would seem to be the most cost effective deal involving this mess.
^ This method FTW.

BUT, it ignores a lot of factors. First of all, Israeli sympathizers in the US will probably still shuffle US arms to israel, considering what the Irish American's did with the M82 and the IRA. Second of all, it would be a very unpopular deal with the US jewish community, since every single synagogue I pass has a "we stand with Israel" sign in front. Third, the Palestinians would probably end up being squished in between Israel, and the other Arab states (the wouldn't let them in in the past, they won't let them in now). Then the situation would be human rights violations all around. Better, no?

So, we should put in a 2 state solution with armed Palestinians, and let them duke it out. After all, that seems to be the only solution.
give the Palestinians a few plane, thanks, drones and then call it a FAIR fight
2009-04-03 03:27:40
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6713|'Murka

Bertster7 wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The Israelis have no intention of making peace with the Palestinians and never have.
Unless 'making peace' means all the Palestinians leaving Palestine and unconditionally gifting their land to the Israelis.
They want bits of Jordan and Lebanon too.

If the Israelis don't make peace, on reasonable terms, pretty soon they are going to lose the option.
Switch "Israeli" with "Palestinian" (and vice versa) and the argument is just as valid.

That is the problem.
If you were just talking Hamas then I'd probably agree. With Fatah I don't think that's the case - and they have control of much more of the OTs than Hamas do.
Fair enough, but Fatah has their own brand of douchebaggery, as well.

Bertster7 wrote:

usmarine wrote:

ummm...how is israel messing it up?  takes two to tango no?
They made a load of agreements not to do illegal stuff, like building settlements in Palestinian territory, now they've decided they don't like following the agreements and have decided they're not bound by them. That's how they're messing it up (this time).
Again, substitute settlement building with random rocket fire, and you have the other side. Thus Marine's point.

ramm wrote:

give the Palestinians a few plane, thanks, drones and then call it a FAIR fight
That's so cute.

If you think for a second that either Hamas or Fatah wouldn't get their asses handed to them even WITH better equipment, you're delusional. Equip them with top-notch armament, stop aid to Israel, and Israel would still clean their clocks using just organic capability. They are the best trained, most professional military in the ME, bar none...and that means FAR more than equipment quality.

Last edited by FEOS (2009-04-03 03:29:56)

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2009-04-03 04:01:25
rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6164

FEOS wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

FEOS wrote:


Switch "Israeli" with "Palestinian" (and vice versa) and the argument is just as valid.

That is the problem.
If you were just talking Hamas then I'd probably agree. With Fatah I don't think that's the case - and they have control of much more of the OTs than Hamas do.
Fair enough, but Fatah has their own brand of douchebaggery, as well.

Bertster7 wrote:

usmarine wrote:

ummm...how is israel messing it up?  takes two to tango no?
They made a load of agreements not to do illegal stuff, like building settlements in Palestinian territory, now they've decided they don't like following the agreements and have decided they're not bound by them. That's how they're messing it up (this time).
Again, substitute settlement building with random rocket fire, and you have the other side. Thus Marine's point.

ramm wrote:

give the Palestinians a few plane, thanks, drones and then call it a FAIR fight
That's so cute.

If you think for a second that either Hamas or Fatah wouldn't get their asses handed to them even WITH better equipment, you're delusional. Equip them with top-notch armament, stop aid to Israel, and Israel would still clean their clocks using just organic capability. They are the best trained, most professional military in the ME, bar none...and that means FAR more than equipment quality.
most professional??? lol, thats why they graffiti saying "arabs die", shoot unarmed women, make t-shirts mocking the dead palestinians, professional my arse.
2009-04-03 04:33:27
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6408|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

Switch "Israeli" with "Palestinian" (and vice versa) and the argument is just as valid.

That is the problem.
It is, although less so.
Israel is surrounded by enemies, Palestine less so.

The Palestinian were wronged here, the Israelis can make some amends or forever be seen as the bad guys.
In the long run thats not going to do them any good - however much they shout 'terrorists'.
Fuck Israel
2009-04-03 07:10:56
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7059|Argentina

usmarine wrote:

ummm...how is israel messing it up?  takes two to tango no?
Do you know how to dance tango?
2009-04-03 07:26:32
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6592|Éire
What peace would this be now?
2009-04-03 07:43:28
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6408|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

They are the best trained, most professional military in the ME
The SS were the best trained, most professional military in Europe for a while.

Didn't mean they were in the right, didn't mean they didn't get whupped eventually.
Fuck Israel
2009-04-03 07:56:46
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7064

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine wrote:

ummm...how is israel messing it up?  takes two to tango no?
Do you know how to dance tango?
no
2009-04-03 08:21:16
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6525|Escea

rammunition wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Switch "Israeli" with "Palestinian" (and vice versa) and the argument is just as valid.

That is the problem.
If you were just talking Hamas then I'd probably agree. With Fatah I don't think that's the case - and they have control of much more of the OTs than Hamas do.
Fair enough, but Fatah has their own brand of douchebaggery, as well.

Bertster7 wrote:


They made a load of agreements not to do illegal stuff, like building settlements in Palestinian territory, now they've decided they don't like following the agreements and have decided they're not bound by them. That's how they're messing it up (this time).
Again, substitute settlement building with random rocket fire, and you have the other side. Thus Marine's point.

ramm wrote:

give the Palestinians a few plane, thanks, drones and then call it a FAIR fight
That's so cute.

If you think for a second that either Hamas or Fatah wouldn't get their asses handed to them even WITH better equipment, you're delusional. Equip them with top-notch armament, stop aid to Israel, and Israel would still clean their clocks using just organic capability. They are the best trained, most professional military in the ME, bar none...and that means FAR more than equipment quality.
most professional??? lol, thats why they graffiti saying "arabs die", shoot unarmed women, make t-shirts mocking the dead palestinians, professional my arse.
lol

After nailing Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Yemen in the 1948 War and then Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Jordan again in the Six Day War and then Egypt, Syria and Iraq again in the Yom-Kippur War, when all sides had relatively comparable technology, it's pretty easy to say that they were the and remain the most professional ME military. Wanna tar the entire IDF and Israeli population because of a few? Go ahead. Perhaps I should say all Pals are suicide bombers and rebels because of what a few groups have done hmm?
2009-04-03 11:40:55
Lai
Member
+186|6453
What peace?

 

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