atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|7010|Atlanta, GA USA
bustamante8151
Member
+0|6908
Damn... I guess I am getting old.
2ndLt.Tucker
If you can read this, your already dead
+33|6921|Stillwater, Ok
Internet...its like a language of its own.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6955

2ndLt.Tucker wrote:

Internet...its like a language of its own.
just like how chuck norris said it, the wild world of the internet
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Berserk_Vampire
Banned
+7|6927

2ndLt.Tucker wrote:

Greenie if your seriously can't respond intelligently then don't at all.  And if your really are from Australia then i feel sorry for whoever knows you.

To Beserk_Vampire and your comment about full metal jacket.  Unfortunately there have been things similar to but not always like that.  Marines and Navy are the most likely to commit suicide.  Navy primarily happens on their ships, i mean a 9 month deployment in steel ship seeing ocean and sky for most of that would drive me insane as well.  Most marines end up commiting suicide from a certain code that they are taught during boot camp.  A marine would rather accept death than to be dishonored is the most common way of thinking.  There are those few who take it to all points in life.  But I am sure there are cases in all militaries where people commit suicid. Hell even civilians commit suicide for some weird crap.  I really feel sorry for those that see death as their only way out.
No one should join the navy then lol if i was forced to join something i'd pick the army i wouldnt wanna be on a boat or in the water alot being on land would be more fun.

Do people in the Training camps like in that movie tease certain people like that like really pick on them and if they do, do they get in alot of trouble? I'd always watch for that specially in the army should let people tease a guy to death then when he goes out probably end up shooting all his team mates then himself.
acespignice
Member
+0|6920

Greenie_Beazinie wrote:

FeloniousMonk wrote:

Greenie_Beazinie wrote:

Rednecks, poor people and hotheads join the military.
Kiss my ass, emo coward. You go tell that to someone in the ADF and see if they don't kick the living shit out of you. I thought Australians were supposed to have balls.
I'ma coward because I dont like killing? Go join the military if you've got balls.

DID I SAY I HAD A PROBLEM WITH ADF? They probably know they dont have enough men to defend Aus anyway.
but they would still die trying to defend your home and theres.....
dragon102
Member
+0|6934|Elyria OH
You know what I am sure glad that people had sacraficed themselves for us to have all of these wonderful discusions and freedoms.
jonnykill
The Microwave Man
+235|6918
Here is my example . I joined the Army "for a job" . I was pretty level headed guy who happened to have a freind who got in as a tanker . Hearing all the stories he told me I decided to give it a go . It was exciting , adventurous training and I loved every bit of it . When I came out of basic , AIT and Jump school I was ready to do anything that was required of me . My particular job was 14 Sierra a stinger missle operator on the Avenger crew member system ( stingers in a turret in the back of a hummer ) . So my part in a war if I ever go was to shoot down aircraft protecting assets , in the rear with the gear . I got the video game job right ? No .
  Next thing you know I'm going to riot school for 3 weeks because I'm being shipped to Haiti Operation resotre Democracy and I'm being attatched to light infantry divisions and the MP's . Now it's all up in the face type of thing . Never fired a shot but was ready to do so . It was just part of the job . One day though while on gaurd duty I hear a shot ring out . Before I know it and without even thinking I was on my stomach
Souls
Member
+14|6902|Garden City, KS. USA
"No one should join the navy then lol if i was forced to join something i'd pick the army i wouldnt wanna be on a boat or in the water alot being on land would be more fun."

   I was in the US Navy for six years.  There are some advantages.  You will always have a hot meal and a warm bed, instead of eating MRE's and sleeping in a rainstorm.  Most of the combat is very inpersonal.  A blip on a radar or sonar screen is about all you ever see of an enemy.  Don't have to worry too much about terrorists attacks except when in port.  The technical traininng is more advanced then alot of other services.  What other service can you learn about nuclear reactors?  I was in advanced electronics (Fire Control Tech) and I used that trainning to get my civilian job I have now.  Very little demand in the civliain word for infanty skills.  So the navy is a different kind of duty with its advantages as well as disadvantages.  It all depends on what you want out of it.

Last edited by Souls (2006-02-18 12:43:03)

Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6913|Canberra, AUS

Souls wrote:

"No one should join the navy then lol if i was forced to join something i'd pick the army i wouldnt wanna be on a boat or in the water alot being on land would be more fun."

   I was in the US Navy for six years.  There are some advantages.  You will always have a hot meal and a warm bed, instead of eating MRE's and sleeping in a rainstorm.  Most of the combat is very inpersonal.  A blip on a radar or sonar screen is about all you ever see of an enemy.  Don't have to worry too much about terrorists attacks except when in port.  The technical traininng is more advanced then alot of other services.  What other service can you learn about nuclear reactors?  I was in advanced electronics (Fire Control Tech) and I used that trainning to get my civilian job I have now.  Very little demand in the civliain word for infanty skills.  So the navy is a different kind of duty with its advantages as well as disadvantages.  It all depends on what you want out of it.
Yeah, I'd much prefer the Navy than the Army.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
shyuechou
Member
+5|6877|Singapore
SLA Marshall's 'Men Against Fire' is a classic study (which has some problems in it) about how men react under fire. In the study, it was found that most men do not shoot their rifles during combat. Most of them simply hug the ground with a small percentage actually using their weapons.

Firefights would often involve only involve machine guns (vrew-served weapons) as they dominate the ground, the streets and so forth.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080613 … oding=UTF8


"Marshall is quick to point out that the alleged seventy-five percent of those who did not shoot were not shirkers or meanderers. These men were on the front line with their assigned units and often performed other essential tasks relating to combat duty. When the confusion and chaos of a fire fight ensued, however, they just did not shoot their weapons. Marshall rejects the reason most often used for not firing, that of giving one's position away. Instead, Marshall contends it is just a gut-level fear that prevents these men from firing at the enemy. Fears of letting down one's comrades were also prevalent among the interviewees. Most importantly, however, Marshall found "that fear of killing, rather than the fear of being killed, was the most common cause of battle failure in the individual, and that fear of failure ran a close second." Predictively, Marshall does not cite any of his evidence and his less than scientific methods have been widely refuted in recent decades. However, the questions that he poses about the psychological makeup of an American in combat have some merit."

It's interesting stuff really.

Last edited by shyuechou (2006-02-23 01:31:12)

BVC
Member
+325|6934
I'm not in the military, so take what I say as you will.

Here, we get a lot of people joining the military because they have no other direction, but also quite a lot nowdays join up to get free tertiary training/education; usually either by way of university education or to pick up a trade.  I'm told that for every year you train on the military's tab, you have to give a year of service.  As far as freezing up in a firefight goes...if you join our army you wont get much of a chance to experience a firefight, all we seem to do is peacekeeping work...apart from the SAS, but I imagine they'd weed out the unwilling during their selection process.
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6997|MA, USA

Pubic wrote:

As far as freezing up in a firefight goes...if you join our army you wont get much of a chance to experience a firefight, all we seem to do is peacekeeping work...
Careful, Those peacekeeping missions have a nasty tendency to heat up.  Somalia was a peacekeeping mission.
2ndLt.Tucker
If you can read this, your already dead
+33|6921|Stillwater, Ok

jonnykill wrote:

Here is my example . I joined the Army "for a job" . I was pretty level headed guy who happened to have a freind who got in as a tanker . Hearing all the stories he told me I decided to give it a go . It was exciting , adventurous training and I loved every bit of it . When I came out of basic , AIT and Jump school I was ready to do anything that was required of me . My particular job was 14 Sierra a stinger missle operator on the Avenger crew member system ( stingers in a turret in the back of a hummer ) . So my part in a war if I ever go was to shoot down aircraft protecting assets , in the rear with the gear . I got the video game job right ? No .
  Next thing you know I'm going to riot school for 3 weeks because I'm being shipped to Haiti Operation resotre Democracy and I'm being attatched to light infantry divisions and the MP's . Now it's all up in the face type of thing . Never fired a shot but was ready to do so . It was just part of the job . One day though while on gaurd duty I hear a shot ring out . Before I know it and without even thinking I was on my stomach
Here here. That shot rings out and you hit the deck or take cover as fast as you can.  Its not even a choice it instinct. Then your nerves settle down to do what you gotta. Its crazy shit when you know whats happening.
BVC
Member
+325|6934

whittsend wrote:

Pubic wrote:

As far as freezing up in a firefight goes...if you join our army you wont get much of a chance to experience a firefight, all we seem to do is peacekeeping work...
Careful, Those peacekeeping missions have a nasty tendency to heat up.  Somalia was a peacekeeping mission.
True true...AFAIK we've lost only one soldier in recent times overseas, it was big news here.  Pte.Leonard Manning in East Timor, his patrol got ambushed by a bunch of "militia".  The indonesian army claimed to catch the culprits, but everyone knows (and some soldiers have even told me as much) it was the indonesians that were behind it.
jonnykill
The Microwave Man
+235|6918

2ndLt.Tucker wrote:

jonnykill wrote:

Here is my example . I joined the Army "for a job" . I was pretty level headed guy who happened to have a freind who got in as a tanker . Hearing all the stories he told me I decided to give it a go . It was exciting , adventurous training and I loved every bit of it . When I came out of basic , AIT and Jump school I was ready to do anything that was required of me . My particular job was 14 Sierra a stinger missle operator on the Avenger crew member system ( stingers in a turret in the back of a hummer ) . So my part in a war if I ever go was to shoot down aircraft protecting assets , in the rear with the gear . I got the video game job right ? No .
  Next thing you know I'm going to riot school for 3 weeks because I'm being shipped to Haiti Operation resotre Democracy and I'm being attatched to light infantry divisions and the MP's . Now it's all up in the face type of thing . Never fired a shot but was ready to do so . It was just part of the job . One day though while on gaurd duty I hear a shot ring out . Before I know it and without even thinking I was on my stomach
Here here. That shot rings out and you hit the deck or take cover as fast as you can.  Its not even a choice it instinct. Then your nerves settle down to do what you gotta. Its crazy shit when you know whats happening.
The funny thing about this story I forgot to finish . A shot ran out and me and my buddy hit the ground . I tell him to get on the radio and call in for roveing MP's to lend a hand . I get up and rush to a brick wall for cover and peek around looking for anything . Since it was only one shot and I didn't hear anything else I was soon realising that there was no threat . Now here is the real wierd thing . We were protecting the mess halls where people were eating lunch . Now it's funny and hard to explain but we clearly heard a shot . But no one eating heard a damn thing . They are only about 20 yards from " the line " but they obviously didn't hear shit . So I scream at the top of my lungs waving a hand " shots fired people , find some cover ! " . No one , I mean no one even bothered to do anything . I couldn't believe my eyes . I mean this my watch and I'm supposed to do my job right ? So I run to the mess hall open the door and take a knee . I say "hey folks we got a shot fired over here you might want to find some cover and get your helmets on " . To my suprise no one really gave a shit at all . No one bother to follow my advice at all . I took off and ran back to the wall thinking to myself  "well one of them might get shot in the face by a sniper or what ever then let it be , but I covered my ass by letting them know whats up " - fuck'em .
So I'm at the wall again and I cross the barbed wire and make my down to the next Guard tower and ask my buddy where the shot came from . He said it was a misfire of his rifle . I started laugh . He was nervous because I told him we reported it and the MP's will soon arrive . He shitting bricks . So I take his rifle and open it up . I take a gerber hand tool and bend one of the springs in the trigger assembly . When the MP's arrived I told them it was a malfunction and they fell for it . He got replaced by another soldier so he could take the rifle to the armory to get it fixed . And that was then end of it .
After we wnt home about 5 months later my buddy got all drunk one night and confessed to me that he just simply fucked up and forgot he chambered a round . He said he took the mag out and took the safty off and pulled the trigger , sendint the bullet right through the roof of the gaurd tower . I asked why did he pull the trigger ? He said he was just board and wanted to clean his rifle and said he just simply didn't clear the rifle properly lol .

Oh yeah . Your comment on instinct . It's not really instinct . My reaction relied more on training . Case in point there were some locals out in the field in fron tof us . When the shot rang out bearly any of them moved . One or two kind of ducked and looked in the direction of the shot but none of them "hit the dirt" .
Only 2 reasons I can think of why they didn't hit the dirt . 1 they are so used to gun shots it's nothing to them unless they hear the wizz of the bullets passing thier heads . 2 they don't have the training to understand how important it is to find cover . I dunno , just aguess .

Last edited by jonnykill (2006-02-25 09:51:45)

2ndLt.Tucker
If you can read this, your already dead
+33|6921|Stillwater, Ok
LOL. Oh man I would be kicking your buddy's ass for that. He is lucky it was pointed away from both of you cause that would have been a bad story otherwise. And you don
t exactly get purple hearts for friendly fire anymore.
greekadonis36
Member
+0|6872
I'd like to refute some misconception about those who enlist in the military.  Not everyone that enlists has exhausted all of their options or is down and out with no direction.  I, for one, am not some directionless, unmotivated, out of ideas and opportunities person.  I have many options and directions I can go with in my life.  The reason I have given the military considerable thought is because I feel like I can make a difference.  They need intelligent, level-headed, straight-shooters (no pun intended) right now and I, for one, feel that I might be willing to fit that need.  It's not a choice one just jumps into.  Like any rational human being, the idea of being shot at doesn't sit comfortably with me.  Sometimes, though, an idea or an opportunity jumps out at you and you feel a real connection to it.  Right now my emotions are mixed. On one hand it almost feels like one of my callings in life, but on the other hand, self-preservation and the comfort in my current freedoms rear their ugly head. 

After taking the ASVAB's, I can pretty much do whatever I want based on my scores.  Because I qualified and because it is something that has always interested me, I have given serious thought to going in with a leaning toward Special Forces.  The idea of having the honor and privilege of wearing the Green Beret is something that gives me an emotion I can't put into words.  I haven't completely made up my mind yet, but the words of veterans and others looking to enlist would be appreciated.  The pro's, the con's, the good times, the bad times, any stories you guys have or any reasons why you enlisted/want to enlist would be cool to hear.  Thanks in advance.

-Chris a.k.a. "greekadonis36"
razz
Member
+7|6920|Australia
I'm going to join the army
2ndLt.Tucker
If you can read this, your already dead
+33|6921|Stillwater, Ok
If you want to have a special forces label there are 2 in the Air Force that will get you EXTREME training and ALOT of combat experience and medals along with it.  The lesser of the two is a TACP operative.  These guys get imbedded with Marine, Army, and even Navy Seal units.  They call in air support for units under heavy fire or when objectives need to be hit.  There are times where these guys have to call in a strike with the enemy all around them and the bomb landing 50-100 yrds away.  The guys that fought a large majority of the Afghan war were TACP's and these guys were the first units that set foot into Afghanistan when it all started.  They saw hell to, they had Tanks, Apc's, AA ships and everything opening up on their positions when the planes weren't dropping bombs on the enemy positions.

The best special force unit in the entire DOD are Pararescue Jumpers. Also known as PJs.  These guys are the elite of the elite and not many people know about them.  They train in every type of environment and are skilled at diving, parachuting, chopper repelling, medical, rock climbing, and the list goes on.  They are very accurate with their weapons and it takes 2 yrs of training to become one.  On top of that they have a 90% wash out rate so very few ever make it.  If your hurt and need to get out of an area these are the guys you want to see. They go anywhere they are needed even into the middle of a fire fight to rescue whoever needs to be.  They are even drowned in their initial training by forcing them to swim to the bottom of a pool....take off their gear....fold it neatly....swim to the top....go back down and put it all back on and repeat untill they actually pass out underwater.  These guys are insane and while not trained specifically for combat like other special force units they are the most well rounded and capable of all the Special Forces. They are badass and even a Navy Seal would not want to be on their badside.
greekadonis36
Member
+0|6872
At this point in time wearing the Green Beret is the most appealing thing to me.  I checked out the Air Force and know of the Combat Controllers and their part in the defeat of the Taliban.  My dad was a Senior Master Sergeant in the Air Force, so I have a base knowledge of it.  My grandfather and great uncle were in the army; my great uncle being a recipient of the Purple Heart for his actions in Normandy (a part of his intestines were removed because of the wound he suffered).  The research I have done into Special Forces training excites me for some reason.  Being pushed to the physical and mental breaking point is something that, oddily, appeals to me.  Right now it is a Priority 2 occupation, but they always need capable, intelligent, willing individuals to fill the needs of modern combat.  I wish more people could see the benifits of service to their country as we are fairly lucky here in the U.S. with it being a volunteer force.  Even though some may not agree with the current administration, myself included, it is not the government that you are serving, but the other soldiers and service men and women currently doing their duty.
Trooper_Collider
Member
+25|6983

Goose_MP[TBG] wrote:

During WW2, studies by US Army psycologists found that less than 1 in 10 guys actually fired aimed shots at the enemy ( stats were higher in the pacific theatre, but that was due to more indoctrination of the marines involved, harsher environment etc) and the rest just fired randomly - approximately 1 in 5 guys in regular line infantry units (ie not airborne, ranger, etc) didnt even fire their weapon. These stats would indicate that a very small minority of guys did the actual fighting, and the rest supported through presence. .
Well, that situation goes back in fact to the Civil War (1861-1865): There are films from those times showing soldiers from both sides just aiming but NOT actually firing, pretending firing only.(!). Also shown at those films how much time they wasted loading their rifles, that should take about 1-3 minutes, done in more than 10 minutes!! Picture those ancient U.S. Model 1861 Springfield .58-caliber and British 1853 .577-caliber Enfield, avant loaded (the bullet put into the muzzle). Both weapons were loaded basically the same way:a fifteen-movement drill!!! So, anyways, instead of reloading their weapon in the required 1-3 minutes they used to do it in up to 10 minutes, on purpose, On BOTH sides!! They thought that not opening fire maybe the enemy wouldn't fire back! The were just afraid to die.

But when old or modern weapons fail to stop the opponent, combatants must rely on their Close-Quarters Combat skills, so we had the LINE System, Linear In-fighting Neural-override Engagement program, a learned system that develops a Marine's close combat techniques to an INSTINCTIVE level, with fundamentals of body, bayonet (with an M16A2 rifle btw) and weapons of opportunity fighting, LOOKING TO CAUSE PERMANENT BODILY DAMAGE AND SHOULD END IN THE OPPONENT'S DEATH. This program was endured after the Vietnam War, and taken out from the Marines Corps combat training in the early 90s. They were creating killing machines and then these men were having problems to fit the civilian social life. Picture a guy who responds to a fight (because they are molesting his girlfriend, in a pub or a cafeteria or something) with a deadly technique in a matter of seconds by instinct!! What do we have? Freaking Rambo! So they took it out from the BCT.


For those interested in LINE System refer to: "U.S. MARINES Close-Quartes Combat Manual" Ed. by Paladin Press Boulder, Colorado. The actual only reference.

Semper Fi!

Last edited by Trooper_Collider (2006-03-03 22:02:06)

imortal
Member
+240|6903|Austin, TX
Maybe this is not the right place to post this.  I was in Iraq in 2003, and this Letter to the Editor appeared in the Stars and Stripes.  Whenever I hear about how much Europe hates America, I read this letter and feel better.

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?sect … chive=true


Text:

May 4, 2003

A show of respect

As usual, I was running late. So readers can imagine my frustration as I approached the main gate of Ramstein Air Base, Germany, only to find traffic backed up. Nearing the checkpoint, I realized that not only was there a long line of cars, but traffic had come to a complete stop because all entrance gates were closed.

Over the past 18 months, there have been many opportunities to practice our patience as we’ve had to “hurry up and wait” because of heightened security. While we realize the necessity, it’s still frustrating at times for even the most easygoing folks. This was one of those times for me. I needed to be where I was going, and I needed to be there now! The German soldiers, who are manning the entrances of American military installations in Germany, were just milling around at Ramstein, chatting as if those of us in line had all the time in the world.

Things then seemed to go from bad to worse. The German gate guards began walking among the stopped cars, asking us to turn off our engines and headlights. I realized that no traffic was exiting or entering the air base. My feelings of frustration began to turn to concern. Just what was going on? A few minutes later, I noticed blue lights approaching from the direction of the air terminal. Close behind were two military medical buses with their Red Cross. Lights were on in the buses and intravenous bags could be seen hanging. It was then that I realized these were more of our wounded warriors being transported from the battlefields to Landstuhl Regional Medical Center for treatment.

I certainly wasn’t prepared for what happened next. All the German soldiers, our gate guards, began walking toward the concrete barriers that divide the inbound and outbound lanes of traffic. As the blue lights neared, more German soldiers seemed to appear from nowhere, lining the road shoulder to shoulder. Right on cue, without a word being spoken, these soldiers snapped a sharp salute as the buses drove past, rendering arms until well after the last bus had passed. Needless to say, I was speechless and deeply moved. What a show of respect for fellow soldiers!

Soldier to soldier, rendering honor and respect. Our allies, our comrades — those who know the price that some have to pay for freedom — did not have to be asked or prompted. It came from their character and soldiering hearts.

May God bless and watch over all soldiers and their loved ones as they stand in harm’s way for us.

Angie McLean
Landstuhl, Germany

End Text


I, personally owe a debt of gratitude to Angie McLean for presenting this to me, and to the military in general.  It is good to know that our brothers in uniform (the German and American militaries have been training together a long time) understand, even if their countrymen don't.

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