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2009-04-03 17:18:28
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6670|NT, like Mick Dundee

I'd rather face the knife than the gun.


They'd have to get close to stab me and well, to be frank, it wouldn't be pleasant for them as I'd be using almost anything I could find to bludgeon the fuck out of them.

Spoiler (highlight to read):
Self defence laws in the NT state that if you are directly threatened with force you can return it in equal measure. If they have a knife you can stab them to protect your life etc.


Lowing pretty sure you'd be up on GBH/murder charges for killing/greviously wounding somebody, trespassing or not.

Last edited by Flecco (2009-04-03 17:19:32)

Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2009-04-03 17:21:22
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6656|USA

Flecco wrote:

I'd rather face the knife than the gun.


They'd have to get close to stab me and well, to be frank, it wouldn't be pleasant for them as I'd be using almost anything I could find to bludgeon the fuck out of them.

Spoiler (highlight to read):
Self defence laws in the NT state that if you are directly threatened with force you can return it in equal measure. If they have a knife you can stab them to protect your life etc.


Lowing pretty sure you'd be up on GBH/murder charges for killing/greviously wounding somebody, trespassing or not.
As much as you would want the victim to be punished for protecting themselves, the laws do protect the victim in the event of a home invasion. Sorry about that.

Oh and as for the running around like an idiot, looking for something to bludgeon to death your assailant, why not just shoot him.

Last edited by lowing (2009-04-03 17:24:15)

2009-04-03 17:24:35
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6523|Montucky

lowing wrote:

Flecco wrote:

I'd rather face the knife than the gun.


They'd have to get close to stab me and well, to be frank, it wouldn't be pleasant for them as I'd be using almost anything I could find to bludgeon the fuck out of them.

Spoiler (highlight to read):
Self defence laws in the NT state that if you are directly threatened with force you can return it in equal measure. If they have a knife you can stab them to protect your life etc.


Lowing pretty sure you'd be up on GBH/murder charges for killing/greviously wounding somebody, trespassing or not.
As much as you would want the victim to be punished for protecting themselves, the laws do protect the victim in the event of a home invasion. Sorry about that.
Here in Montucky, If you enter my house without my expressed permission I have the sole right to defend my life as I see fit.


I see fit a few options, my Beretta 92, Beretta 96, Springfield 1911, Springfield XD 45, S & W .357, AR 15 or the oldie but goodie the mossy 500.
2009-04-03 17:26:37
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6505|so randum

lowing wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

lowing wrote:

I am going to guess robbery, which is exactly why lawful citizens should own guns, to protect themselves.

I see, so I can be shot to death while only allowed to be wounded by a knife in your scenerio, kinda biased ain't it? Also if I were to have a gun ( of which I own several) I will not have to worry about getting shot stabbed or robbed.( if I am at home.)
You are 100% MISSING THE POINT. Over here, robberys generally go like so; Target is away from home - insurances covers, b) Target is at home, are threatened (possibly with a weapon) but are generally left unharmed

And as to the second issue AGAIN i said you are more likely to survive a stabbing than a gunshot wound - i didn't say anything about dieing.
I am not so inclined, as I suppose you are, to just let myself be robbed. If I am at home, I will defend myself and my property. That mean I will shoot the fucker. Regardless if he is armed or not. In MY house, uninvited, he is dead.

Try comparing apples and apples. If I get shot in the heart or stabbed in the heart I am probably gunna die.

If I am shot in the arm or stabbed in the arm I am probably gunna live.

be it bullet or blade if an artery is cut you are gunna bleed out, it does not matter what did the damage.
1) Would you put your life on the line for a TV set? Fuck the 'moral' issue of being robbed - If it came down to it what's worth more; your TV set (covered by insurance) or your life (non-replaceable)?

2)A bullet wound is not the same as a knife wound. I've actually been taught this, because guess what - I can legally shoot. A knife is in-out, with massive tissue trauma. A bullet wound causes the tissue trauma, as well as the impact causing neural shock - that can kill you alone. Added to that, bullets seldom stop upon entry; they ricochet.

Last edited by FatherTed (2009-04-03 17:27:05)

Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2009-04-03 17:29:55
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6670|NT, like Mick Dundee

lowing wrote:

Flecco wrote:

I'd rather face the knife than the gun.


They'd have to get close to stab me and well, to be frank, it wouldn't be pleasant for them as I'd be using almost anything I could find to bludgeon the fuck out of them.

Spoiler (highlight to read):
Self defence laws in the NT state that if you are directly threatened with force you can return it in equal measure. If they have a knife you can stab them to protect your life etc.


Lowing pretty sure you'd be up on GBH/murder charges for killing/greviously wounding somebody, trespassing or not.
As much as you would want the victim to be punished for protecting themselves, the laws do protect the victim in the event of a home invasion. Sorry about that.

Oh and as for the running around like an idiot, looking for something to bludgeon to death your assailant, why not just shoot him.
Gunsafe is locked m8, requirement here. The key isn't in an easy to reach place. That and a .22 magnum isn't going to do much and there's a problem with the firing pin on the .308. Both are bolt actions btw, don't have mags for the .22 or the .22 magnum, can't remember if the .308 has any. Haven't had a shotgun in in the house for years.

Never been burgled. Never had trespassers besides the Army while it was on exercise up here. That was a fun night.

And I wouldn't want anybody punished for defending themselves ffs. Where the fuck did you get that from? I was just saying those laws can get murky. Is it legal to shoot a cop on your land then? What about somebody who you invited around but later claim was trespassing?

So it's perfectly legal to murder somebody on your property as long as you claim they were trying to steal something/threatening you?

Last edited by Flecco (2009-04-03 17:32:34)

Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2009-04-03 17:29:56
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6656|USA

S3v3N wrote:

lowing wrote:

Flecco wrote:

I'd rather face the knife than the gun.


They'd have to get close to stab me and well, to be frank, it wouldn't be pleasant for them as I'd be using almost anything I could find to bludgeon the fuck out of them.

Spoiler (highlight to read):
Self defence laws in the NT state that if you are directly threatened with force you can return it in equal measure. If they have a knife you can stab them to protect your life etc.


Lowing pretty sure you'd be up on GBH/murder charges for killing/greviously wounding somebody, trespassing or not.
As much as you would want the victim to be punished for protecting themselves, the laws do protect the victim in the event of a home invasion. Sorry about that.
Here in Montucky, If you enter my house without my expressed permission I have the sole right to defend my life as I see fit.


I see fit a few options, my Beretta 92, Beretta 96, Springfield 1911, Springfield XD 45, S & W .357, AR 15 or the oldie but goodie the mossy 500.
Wow, nice collection, I will wait for an invite instead of breaking in. SEE deterrence works.

All I have is my AK47 (WASR10) Taurus 9MM,( I am told not a very good gun but it shoots fine) my Remington 870 Express Shotgun ( my weapon of choice for protection), and my sons 2 Ruger 10/22's ( I love these rifles)
2009-04-03 17:33:54
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6656|USA

FatherTed wrote:

lowing wrote:

FatherTed wrote:


You are 100% MISSING THE POINT. Over here, robberys generally go like so; Target is away from home - insurances covers, b) Target is at home, are threatened (possibly with a weapon) but are generally left unharmed

And as to the second issue AGAIN i said you are more likely to survive a stabbing than a gunshot wound - i didn't say anything about dieing.
I am not so inclined, as I suppose you are, to just let myself be robbed. If I am at home, I will defend myself and my property. That mean I will shoot the fucker. Regardless if he is armed or not. In MY house, uninvited, he is dead.

Try comparing apples and apples. If I get shot in the heart or stabbed in the heart I am probably gunna die.

If I am shot in the arm or stabbed in the arm I am probably gunna live.

be it bullet or blade if an artery is cut you are gunna bleed out, it does not matter what did the damage.
1) Would you put your life on the line for a TV set? Fuck the 'moral' issue of being robbed - If it came down to it what's worth more; your TV set (covered by insurance) or your life (non-replaceable)?

2)A bullet wound is not the same as a knife wound. I've actually been taught this, because guess what - I can legally shoot. A knife is in-out, with massive tissue trauma. A bullet wound causes the tissue trauma, as well as the impact causing neural shock - that can kill you alone. Added to that, bullets seldom stop upon entry; they ricochet.
1. Nope, I will however put YOUR life on the line for my property, so if ya wanna TV set I suggest you either go buy one or wait for Obama t ogive you one, because you will not be getting mine.

2. Again compare apples and apples, it is not fair for you to tell me I can only be shot to death or endure a stab wound. If I am going to be wounded I will take a gun shot, if I am going to killed I will still take a gun shot.
2009-04-03 17:36:57
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6505|so randum

lowing wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

lowing wrote:


I am not so inclined, as I suppose you are, to just let myself be robbed. If I am at home, I will defend myself and my property. That mean I will shoot the fucker. Regardless if he is armed or not. In MY house, uninvited, he is dead.

Try comparing apples and apples. If I get shot in the heart or stabbed in the heart I am probably gunna die.

If I am shot in the arm or stabbed in the arm I am probably gunna live.

be it bullet or blade if an artery is cut you are gunna bleed out, it does not matter what did the damage.
1) Would you put your life on the line for a TV set? Fuck the 'moral' issue of being robbed - If it came down to it what's worth more; your TV set (covered by insurance) or your life (non-replaceable)?

2)A bullet wound is not the same as a knife wound. I've actually been taught this, because guess what - I can legally shoot. A knife is in-out, with massive tissue trauma. A bullet wound causes the tissue trauma, as well as the impact causing neural shock - that can kill you alone. Added to that, bullets seldom stop upon entry; they ricochet.
1. Nope, I will however put YOUR life on the line for my property, so if ya wanna TV set I suggest you either go buy one or wait for Obama t ogive you one, because you will not be getting mine.

2. Again compare apples and apples, it is not fair for you to tell me I can only be shot to death or endure a stab wound. If I am going to be wounded I will take a gun shot, if I am going to killed I will still take a gun shot.
1)If you value a human life no matter how flawed over a TV set, you possibly need help. And quit throwing Obama around; he's not my President/Prime minister. Even for my party choice he's a little too far right (only just).

2)So what, you want the right to be shot? Because that's what you just said!

Oh and hit me back on the PM, i'm actually being serious.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2009-04-03 17:45:32
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6656|USA

FatherTed wrote:

lowing wrote:

FatherTed wrote:


1) Would you put your life on the line for a TV set? Fuck the 'moral' issue of being robbed - If it came down to it what's worth more; your TV set (covered by insurance) or your life (non-replaceable)?

2)A bullet wound is not the same as a knife wound. I've actually been taught this, because guess what - I can legally shoot. A knife is in-out, with massive tissue trauma. A bullet wound causes the tissue trauma, as well as the impact causing neural shock - that can kill you alone. Added to that, bullets seldom stop upon entry; they ricochet.
1. Nope, I will however put YOUR life on the line for my property, so if ya wanna TV set I suggest you either go buy one or wait for Obama t ogive you one, because you will not be getting mine.

2. Again compare apples and apples, it is not fair for you to tell me I can only be shot to death or endure a stab wound. If I am going to be wounded I will take a gun shot, if I am going to killed I will still take a gun shot.
1)If you value a human life no matter how flawed over a TV set, you possibly need help. And quit throwing Obama around; he's not my President/Prime minister. Even for my party choice he's a little too far right (only just).

2)So what, you want the right to be shot? Because that's what you just said!

Oh and hit me back on the PM, i'm actually being serious.
1. Well I guess this is where we differ. I do not place any value on the lives of home invaders, or anyone that tries to harm an innocent person.

2. Nope, you forced me into YOUR scenerio, I was pointing out its bias.
2009-04-03 17:47:00
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6505|so randum

lowing wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

lowing wrote:


1. Nope, I will however put YOUR life on the line for my property, so if ya wanna TV set I suggest you either go buy one or wait for Obama t ogive you one, because you will not be getting mine.

2. Again compare apples and apples, it is not fair for you to tell me I can only be shot to death or endure a stab wound. If I am going to be wounded I will take a gun shot, if I am going to killed I will still take a gun shot.
1)If you value a human life no matter how flawed over a TV set, you possibly need help. And quit throwing Obama around; he's not my President/Prime minister. Even for my party choice he's a little too far right (only just).

2)So what, you want the right to be shot? Because that's what you just said!

Oh and hit me back on the PM, i'm actually being serious.
1. Well I guess this is where we differ. I do not place any value on the lives of home invaders, or anyone that tries to harm an innocent person.

2. Nope, you forced me into YOUR scenerio, I was pointing out its bias.
1) I guess so, that's a totally personal decision, and no poster on BF2s will ever change that for you. End of that one.

2)My scenario was; Be shot, or be stabbed - Pick which one, and why.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2009-04-03 17:50:22
Switch
Knee Deep In Clunge
+489|6468|Tyne & Wear, England
Why can't we all agree that it would be ridiculous for America to introduce 'gun control'.  The public need guns to protect themselves from already well-armed criminals.

At the same time it would be equally ridiculous for the UK or any similar country to relax gun control.
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
2009-04-03 17:54:22
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6656|USA

FatherTed wrote:

lowing wrote:

FatherTed wrote:


1)If you value a human life no matter how flawed over a TV set, you possibly need help. And quit throwing Obama around; he's not my President/Prime minister. Even for my party choice he's a little too far right (only just).

2)So what, you want the right to be shot? Because that's what you just said!

Oh and hit me back on the PM, i'm actually being serious.
1. Well I guess this is where we differ. I do not place any value on the lives of home invaders, or anyone that tries to harm an innocent person.

2. Nope, you forced me into YOUR scenerio, I was pointing out its bias.
1) I guess so, that's a totally personal decision, and no poster on BF2s will ever change that for you. End of that one.

2)My scenario was; Be shot, or be stabbed - Pick which one, and why.
1. probably right. ALthough how you value violent criminals I will never know, but more power to ya, if not more firepower to ya.

2,Already answered. shot or stabbed to be wounded shot I will take shot.
Shot or stabbed to be killed I will stake shot.

Both for one very good reason, have you ever cut yourself shaving? or got a paper cut? Hurts like hell. Now multiply that by 1000 and that is a stab wound. I am guessing. Since I have never been shot or stabbed. The whole purpose of gun ownership is to prevent both.
2009-04-03 17:55:28
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6656|USA

Switch wrote:

Why can't we all agree that it would be ridiculous for America to introduce 'gun control'.  The public need guns to protect themselves from already well-armed criminals.

At the same time it would be equally ridiculous for the UK or any similar country to relax gun control.
Now what the hell kinda fun is agreeing on shit. No thanks, I would rather argue.
2009-04-03 17:57:27
Switch
Knee Deep In Clunge
+489|6468|Tyne & Wear, England
The only arms we need are for hugging.
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
2009-04-03 17:59:03
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6505|so randum

lowing wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

lowing wrote:

1. Well I guess this is where we differ. I do not place any value on the lives of home invaders, or anyone that tries to harm an innocent person.

2. Nope, you forced me into YOUR scenerio, I was pointing out its bias.
1) I guess so, that's a totally personal decision, and no poster on BF2s will ever change that for you. End of that one.

2)My scenario was; Be shot, or be stabbed - Pick which one, and why.
1. probably right. ALthough how you value violent criminals I will never know, but more power to ya, if not more firepower to ya.

2,Already answered. shot or stabbed to be wounded shot I will take shot.
Shot or stabbed to be killed I will stake shot.

Both for one very good reason, have you ever cut yourself shaving? or got a paper cut? Hurts like hell. Now multiply that by 1000 and that is a stab wound. I am guessing. Since I have never been shot or stabbed. The whole purpose of gun ownership is to prevent both.
Sadly enough, i have been stabbed (totally accidentally) just under my right lung. The biggest pain (so my doctor said) is the immediate external skin, it's where most of your nerves are. the deeper it goes, the duller it feels. Hears hoping neither of us feel either injury ever again.

Last edited by FatherTed (2009-04-03 18:00:08)

Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2009-04-03 18:05:15
Switch
Knee Deep In Clunge
+489|6468|Tyne & Wear, England
How the fuck did you get stabbed?
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
2009-04-03 18:06:45
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6154|'straya

Switch wrote:

Why can't we all agree that it would be ridiculous for America to introduce 'gun control'.  The public need guns to protect themselves from already well-armed criminals.

At the same time it would be equally ridiculous for the UK or any similar country to relax gun control.
Countries like the UK and Australia (and probably other european countries) have not always had gun laws this tough.... we changed them, and are far better off for it. Are guns so ingrained in the American psyche that you cannot possibly give them up?

[Not directed at you Switch]

I find it funny how some Americans talk about how they are the beacon of freedom in the world, about the American dream blah blah, and then own 6 guns because they don't trust their fellow Americans or government. Am i the only one who sees the irony?
2009-04-03 18:07:44
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6505|so randum

Switch wrote:

How the fuck did you get stabbed?
Simple, albeit random kitchen accident. Sister was facing towards me with a knife when i slipped (dishwasher had given up about 30min earlier) and fell onto the blade. Was in surgery for hours. Very self conscious about it, had tons of work done to hide the scar. I can see it still, but it's hard to find.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2009-04-03 18:13:07
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6547|Texas - Bigger than France
1) Comparing apples to oranges - UK is not the US.  There's no correlated crime statistics - the US is a more violent society, always has been.  Having guns is irrelevant, which is why its apples to oranges.

2) What's missing in these discussions is intent.  If the intent is to kill, it's gonna happen, no matter what's used.  I would argue using a gun correlates a great extent to intent of the user, as per Ted's points.  The intent isn't impacted by choice of weapon.

3) Crime is crime.  Death is death.  Would I rather get shot or stabbed to death?  Null vote.  I'm dead.  Plus I don't think either will happen anyway.

4) More people get stabbed than shot in both countries.  If the argument is that crime will be reduced by eliminating a weapon, if we actually COULD prove that banning the weapon equates to lower crime, banning knives would make a bigger impact on those numbers.

5) If severity of the injury is the issue, then guns are more lethal...but it's because you have to have more skill with a knife than to simply point and click.  A properly used knife is more lethal then a bullet hole.

6) I'd argue, because of #5 that people who use guns are more inclined to do more damage than those with knives.  Why?  If you're a criminal, why fuck around with the learning curve of a knife?  Plus there's more planning and training involved, which is difficult when you are jonesing for the next buzz.

7) Generalizing a small percentage of criminal use of guns, and applying it to the rest of the population is flawed logic.  More people save lives and their property by defending their property then those that are killed.  Eliminating guns would eliminate this deterrent.

8) As per a previous post, having a gun has to with the obsession with your dong.  Last year a study proved the average penis size in the UK was slightly bigger than the US.  Therefore, we are more inclined to use guns.  After all, plastic surgery is usually not the affordable option when compared to purchasing a Desert Eagle.

9) I believe that criminals are more likely to shoot another criminal than the average joe.  If guns are more lethal, eliminating them might mean using knives...which would reduce the fatality rate in the criminal population.

My opinion does not vary by the severity issue - it's all equally as bad.  I also do not agree with the idea that banning guns would have a significant impact on the amount of death nor the amount of crime.  What this means is...I'm back to point #1.
2009-04-03 18:29:38
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6586|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

I find it funny how some Americans talk about how they are the beacon of freedom in the world, about the American dream blah blah, and then own 6 guns because they don't trust their fellow Americans or government. Am i the only one who sees the irony?
I don't trust criminals, no matter their nationality. only idiots trust their government and only idiots depend on cops for their safety.
2009-04-03 18:30:08
nickb64
formerly from OC (it's EXACTLY like on tv)[truth]
+77|5616|Greatest Nation on Earth(USA)

Flecco wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Please stop posting stupid cartoons.
Why should he? They tell us a lot about his personality and web browsing habits/social network.
They were for the appendix of my Research Paper.
2009-04-03 18:32:43
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6670|NT, like Mick Dundee

nickb64 wrote:

Flecco wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Please stop posting stupid cartoons.
Why should he? They tell us a lot about his personality and web browsing habits/social network.
They were for the appendix of my Research Paper.
See the later post m8. History 101. Comics are a great primary resource for the era they were drawn in.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2009-04-03 18:34:10
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6154|'straya

Reciprocity wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

I find it funny how some Americans talk about how they are the beacon of freedom in the world, about the American dream blah blah, and then own 6 guns because they don't trust their fellow Americans or government. Am i the only one who sees the irony?
I don't trust criminals, no matter their nationality. only idiots trust their government and only idiots depend on cops for their safety.
You sound so free, happy and full of fear of fucking everything
2009-04-03 18:43:58
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6606|132 and Bush

Vilham wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Well, they've certainly had a dramatic increase in violent crime over the last decade. I doubt adding the responsibility of gun ownership right now is the best idea.
Good point...  I wonder why they have so much violence.  People seem to blame it on guns here, but in the U.K., they can't use that excuse.
Our violent crime is below yours I believe. Our knife crime is equal to yours and our gun crime is nearly none existent.
That all depends on which data you look at. If you take this (a total of 2,420,000 UK violent crimes) and divide it into this (UK population of 60,609,153 ) you'll get a higher violent crime rate than in the states. Using the data linked you can see the violent crime rate for you is 23 per 1,000.. or 2300 per 100,000. Also supported here. Compare that with 469.2 per 100,000 in the US and it looks like you've got a MUCH higher violent crime rate. You'll also notice ours has been on the decline for the last 15 years. Source-> British home office and the FBI.

However, what I was talking about.. Your dramatic increase year after year for the last decade..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/837875.stm 2000
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1446260.stm 2001
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2003 … ime.ukguns 2003 (firearm violence up 3% wtf)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3914289.stm 2004
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr … 99603.html 2005
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5195910.stm 2006
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u … 103097.ece 2007

It's not exactly late breaking news. It also doesn't take a genius to figure out why your gun violence is low (although apparently on the rise too). You don't have the same freedoms when it comes to purchasing firearms. No one has denied that there is a certain amount of trade off that comes with gun rights. Try applying just a little bit of context to your rebuttal.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2009-04-03 18:50:52
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6158|what

The British home office and the FBI class "violent" crime differently.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

 

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