BF2S Forums England, the land of Big Brother...

Wow, it sounds like you have some unresolved anger issues there.

So, you don't like people making arguments about your country based on scant information, questionable sources, and possbily unjustified stereotypes?  Do the words "pot, kettle, black" hold ay meaning for you?  Oh, and sepaking of generaliations and possibly unjustified stereotypes, with your "..as all you Americans" comment, you incriminated yourself as being just as guilty as anyone here of doing the exact same thing.  So, while I will leave the insults and the profanity out of it (we all know that the more you swear, the more intelligent and mature you are, right?), I would suggest that you look deep inside to find what the real core of your anger is.

If they offered the service, and allowed people to sign up for it, I would have no issue with it.  Do do it involuntarally, whether I want it or not, is not okay.    It also depends what they would want to DO with the information.  If they mailed out pamphlets with showing your home score, and what you can do to fix it, maybe I could understand.  If they decide to issue you a fine for "wastage," then it is just another attempt to get even more money from you.  I do not know what their goals would be, but (perhaps since I am American) I have a deep-rooted distrust of government, and doubt that they would do something like this to try to benifit me when they can use it as a money grab.

It is amazing to me, personally, how many people just assume that their goverment will use the power and information nobly and justly.


Oh, and lastly... it is just a topic on an internet forum.  If we didn't post the rediculous occasionally, then we wouldn't have much to talk about.  As for 'informed...' go back and read.  I simply stated that you have more CCTVs than any other nation, and posited that if this were true, then would it not be a violation of policy?  Anything else you read into it came all from you.

imortal wrote:

It is amazing to me, personally, how many people just assume that their goverment will use the power and information nobly and justly.

We have this thing called the data protection act. It does quite a good job of doing just that - except when the data is left on random trains or suchlike, which seems to happen with alarming regularity.

imortal wrote:

I do not know what their goals would be, but (perhaps since I am American) I have a deep-rooted distrust of government, and doubt that they would do something like this to try to benifit me when they can use it as a money grab.

Why not? It is exactly the sort of thing the government do all the time.

The real goal here is to cut emissions to meet obligations and targets that the government have set. By finding who wastes the most energy, energy saving schemes can be more effectively targeted. Not by people coming round and fining you, but by writing to you offering you grants to help with insulation and alternative energy sources - a good example being the scheme offered already which has proven so popular that they have already run out of the money allocated for PV solar energy.

Over here, it is not uncommon at all for the government to subsidise you if you want to improve your house in a government approved way - beign more energy efficient is something the government wants.

Imortal wrote:

And yes, it is okay to waste ANYTHING I pay for, if I choose to.  I pay for it, it is mine to do whatever I want with it, within the law.

That pretty much sums up the Texan attitude I guess.

Energy is running out, its not in a nation's interests to let people just waste it because they can.

The UK is not far away from rationing electricity and gas, with gas controlled by Russia and not enough power stations being built its 10-20 years away max.

The US won't be far behind either.

Australia does not have enough electrical generating capacity for everyone to switch on their air-conditioners at the same time, or enough water for people to waste it on gardens.

The 'I bought it I'll waste it' attitude is so last millenium.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Imortal wrote:

And yes, it is okay to waste ANYTHING I pay for, if I choose to.  I pay for it, it is mine to do whatever I want with it, within the law.

That pretty much sums up the Texan attitude I guess.

Energy is running out, its not in a nation's interests to let people just waste it because they can.

The UK is not far away from rationing electricity and gas, with gas controlled by Russia and not enough power stations being built its 10-20 years away max.

The US won't be far behind either.

Australia does not have enough electrical generating capacity for everyone to switch on their air-conditioners at the same time, or enough water for people to waste it on gardens.

The 'I bought it I'll waste it' attitude is so last millenium.

Well, to be fair, the U.K. and the rest of Europe would have been better off sticking with nuclear power.  Trusting Russia as a primary energy source is ridiculous.

France was smart not to close most of its nuclear plants.  Canada has also been smart by not closing theirs.

The short term solution to growing energy concerns is increasing nuclear power in Europe and America.  Now, I don't know enough about Australia to make a call there, but I'd assume you guys could probably stand to build some nuclear power plants too.

Bertster7 wrote:

There is a nuclear power plant building program currently in place. The Scottish are fucking it up a bit with their usual whinging. 10 new plants are planned for the next decade, which will fill the gap left by closing the old ones. We also buy a lot of energy in from France who have loads of nuclear power (>80%). Coal plants are planned as a realistic way to plug the future energy gap - and this is the only area in which the UK buys any energy from Russia at all (~20 million tonnes of coal imported from Russia). If it were not for the Scottish Parliament being cunts, it'd be easier to do. Much of Europe do depend on Russian energy, but not the UK - Norway and France are our main suppliers I believe.

It is not an issue of not closing nuclear power plants. They have a useful life, it comes to an end. It is much better to replace them than to try and keep old ones running. The French ones have had an extension program done which will get another 10 years of life out of them. 10 years is not that long. It would not have been practical in the UK. It's new better ones that are needed - and the French are leading the way in building those as well.

I don't mean to offend our Scottish members, but what you're saying seems to match a lot of other things I've heard lately about the Scots.  They seem to be especially phobic of guns as well.

What do you think the deal is with them regarding nuke power?  Is it the typical NIMBY thing or something else?

Bertster7 wrote:

They say none can be built in Scotland. Scotland is full of big empty space - much more so than the rest of the UK. This makes it a good location to put a few nuclear power plants in.

On the gun side of things - it was the Dunblane massacre in Scotland that led to the UK wide handgun ban. Might explain some of that?

Devolution FTL.

Ah...  didn't know about the massacre thing.  Still, it seems silly to assume that banning guns would fix the problem.  If guns are already there, all you can do practically is to make it easier for people to arm themselves legally.  But that's another discussion....

Anyway, yeah, if Scotland has a lot of space, they should be more open to the plants.

Granted, if you guys completely split up from Scotland, you might actually be better off economically.  I know there's an ongoing debate over splitting the U.K. into separate countries again, and honestly, England would probably benefit from it.  I don't know if that would be true for Scotland or Wales though.

Although Northern Ireland would probably benefit from being part of the Republic of Ireland (but the rest of the Republic would probably suffer economically).

Bertster7 wrote:

I wouldn't be opposed to a complete split from Wales, Soctland and NI, nor am I opposed to the UK as it is supposed to be. But the whole idea that they can be a part of the system with all the benefits - and some extra ones is not on (it's only the extra benefits I'm against).

The Welsh get free NHS prescriptions - the English have to pay £6 or something per prescription (not for each item, for everything included on a single prescription - ie antibiotics and painkillers could both be a single payment).

The Scottish get free University tuition - everyone else has to pay tuition top up fees.

Things like this aren't fair and shouldn't happen.

No kidding.  How did you let it happen this way?

It sounds like separation really is in your best interests.

FatherTed wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

I wouldn't be opposed to a complete split from Wales, Soctland and NI, nor am I opposed to the UK as it is supposed to be. But the whole idea that they can be a part of the system with all the benefits - and some extra ones is not on (it's only the extra benefits I'm against).

The Welsh get free NHS prescriptions - the English have to pay £6 or something per prescription (not for each item, for everything included on a single prescription - ie antibiotics and painkillers could both be a single payment).

The Scottish get free University tuition - everyone else has to pay tuition top up fees.

Things like this aren't fair and shouldn't happen.

No kidding.  How did you let it happen this way?

It sounds like separation really is in your best interests.

Seperation's probably ok for England.

Scotland hasn't got that much to do though, neither does Wales. Both still fairly dependant on tourism.

Well, for what it's worth, Northern Ireland would probably be better off as part of Ireland in terms of economy.  Granted, I realize that the cultural conflicts would probably flare up again (and sort of already have).

FatherTed wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Seperation's probably ok for England.

Scotland hasn't got that much to do though, neither does Wales. Both still fairly dependant on tourism.

Well, for what it's worth, Northern Ireland would probably be better off as part of Ireland in terms of economy.  Granted, I realize that the cultural conflicts would probably flare up again (and sort of already have).

Yeah N.Ireland would do ok, the recent violence does seem to have been an isolated incident - apart from the odd statement and arrest nothings happened since the last killings.

Wales in particular would be hit hard if the U.K split up, aside from some manufacturing along the M4 corridor, and serving as land links to gas (i think) rigs, they really haven't got anything going for them unfortunately. I dunno, i think (obv) N.Ire should be handed back, but i can't ever see Wales and Scotland being truly autonomous.

Doesn't Scotland have the oil industry to fall back on?  I thought they had some significant industrial sectors as well.

FEOS wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

I wouldn't be opposed to a complete split from Wales, Soctland and NI, nor am I opposed to the UK as it is supposed to be. But the whole idea that they can be a part of the system with all the benefits - and some extra ones is not on (it's only the extra benefits I'm against).

The Welsh get free NHS prescriptions - the English have to pay £6 or something per prescription (not for each item, for everything included on a single prescription - ie antibiotics and painkillers could both be a single payment).

The Scottish get free University tuition - everyone else has to pay tuition top up fees.

Things like this aren't fair and shouldn't happen.

Sounds remarkably like the Native American situation in the US, tbh.

Not really. They don't have their own parliament do they?

That's where all the problems here stem from, devolution - separate chambers of government for Scotland and Wales as well as the main one for Britain (though England doesn't get one). They push through legislation to benefit citizens in their region specifically, at the expense of everyone else. It's not the same as the sort of guilt benefits given to the native Americans - though there may well be some parallels that can be drawn.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-04-02 11:12:56)

FatherTed wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Yeah N.Ireland would do ok, the recent violence does seem to have been an isolated incident - apart from the odd statement and arrest nothings happened since the last killings.

Wales in particular would be hit hard if the U.K split up, aside from some manufacturing along the M4 corridor, and serving as land links to gas (i think) rigs, they really haven't got anything going for them unfortunately. I dunno, i think (obv) N.Ire should be handed back, but i can't ever see Wales and Scotland being truly autonomous.

Doesn't Scotland have the oil industry to fall back on?  I thought they had some significant industrial sectors as well.

North Sea oil field isn't expected to see much more action, plus what with the recent helicopter crashes i can forsee a big rise in costs associated to making it nice and safe. To be fair, i don't know enough about Scotland to pass much worthwhile remark on it.

North Sea oil revenues are about £1000/capita and falling. Additional spending on the Scottish over and beyond what is spent on the English is £1500/capita and rising.

Bertster7 wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

I wouldn't be opposed to a complete split from Wales, Soctland and NI, nor am I opposed to the UK as it is supposed to be. But the whole idea that they can be a part of the system with all the benefits - and some extra ones is not on (it's only the extra benefits I'm against).

The Welsh get free NHS prescriptions - the English have to pay £6 or something per prescription (not for each item, for everything included on a single prescription - ie antibiotics and painkillers could both be a single payment).

The Scottish get free University tuition - everyone else has to pay tuition top up fees.

Things like this aren't fair and shouldn't happen.

Sounds remarkably like the Native American situation in the US, tbh.

Not really. They don't have their own parliament do they?

That's where all the problems here stem from, devolution - separate chambers of government for Scotland and Wales as well as the main one for Britain (though England doesn't get one). They push through legislation to benefit citizens in their region specifically, at the expense of everyone else. It's not the same as the sort of guilt benefits given to the native Americans - though there may well be some parallels that can be drawn.

Actually, they do have their own governments on the Rez.

I would think that the parallels are pretty solid: England rapes Scotland, steals land, persecutes their leaders but then gives them educational and medical benefits not available to the general public. But I guess they gave Scotland a bit more power than the various Indian Nations have. Certainly not one-to-one due to the differences in culture and government, put the big rocks look pretty similar.