KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,983|6935|949

https://i43.tinypic.com/t6ywx2.jpg
Former Gitmo guard recalls abuse, climate of fear
Army Pvt. Brandon Neely was scared when he took Guantanamo's first shackled detainees off a bus. Told to expect vicious terrorists, he grabbed a trembling, elderly detainee and ground his face into the cement - the first of a range of humiliations he says he participated in and witnessed as the prison was opening for business.

Neely has now come forward in this final year of the detention center's existence, saying he wants to publicly air his feelings of guilt and shame about how some soldiers behaved as the military scrambled to handle the first alleged al-Qaida and Taliban members arriving at the isolated U.S. Navy base.
Interesting...here is this disgruntled man discussing Gitmo.  Scroll down a little in the link for the meat and potatoes.

https://i40.tinypic.com/23korgi.jpg
Testimony of Spc. Brandon Neely (By the way this is exactly what I picture usmarine to look like)
Did you get any briefing on who the soon-to-arrive prisoners were?

The only thing I can recall being told about the detainees that would arrive was that they were captured fighting the Americans in Afghanistan. And that they were known terrorists. And that many of them helped in the planning of the 9/11 attacks. We would be coming face-to-face with the worst people the world had to offer. Our mission would be to guard these terrorists so the United States could get more info on attacks and, possibly, stop more terrorist attacks.

As to us, we talked a lot about the detainees before they arrived. About them and what they had probably been involved in. A lot of us, including myself, were pissed off, and many people were out to get revenge for the havoc the United States had been through in recent months by these people.

But, as the months went on, one or two of us would actually question what was going on here, the way the detainees were being treated and if they were actually terrorists or not, but being no-ones, and young, and dumb, we never questioned anything further; just did our time until we went home.
Just because many of us were guards at Guantanamo does not make us automatically bad people. I know for a fact one or two people, including myself, felt sorry for these people--and very ashamed of what we were taking part in. But what could we say? If we questioned anything or talked out against what we thought was wrong, we would have been ridiculed. And who knows what else we would have had to face. So we kept our mouths shut and went work every day, counting down the days until we could return home to our families and just could forget about this time we spent in Guantanamo.
I've always viewed Gitmo as a systematic failure in concept and implementation.  To me this is obvious and striking evidence of that.  Now, we can hold commissions and inquiries for years (and probably will) regarding where/how the idea of a military prison failed but what do we do moving forward?  Where do we house these prisoners while awaiting trial? 

What realistic steps if any need to be taken to deal with prisoners?  If the treatment of prisoners by soldiers is something weighing on the conscious of these people why is that not being addressed?

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2009-02-19 23:19:34)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

Kinda reminds me of that Jesse Macbeth feller. I'm sure this guy has proof though.
He couldn't possible be politically motivated.
https://i39.tinypic.com/ja8f7r.jpg
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5889

Kmarion wrote:

Kinda reminds me of that Jesse Macbeth feller. I'm sure this guy has proof though.
He couldn't possible be politically motivated.
http://i39.tinypic.com/ja8f7r.jpg
What a disgrace to a great name, Jesse Macbeth.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

Sadly the facts don't come into the light until now.

You gotta feel sorry for the guards as well as the inmates who were both put into such extremely intense situations.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Hakei
Banned
+295|6298
Meh.

People running the country know what to do, so much will be away from public access that it's hard to give a good judgment on a subject such as this.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6714|'Murka

AussieReaper wrote:

Sadly the facts don't come into the light until now.

You gotta feel sorry for the guards as well as the inmates who were both put into such extremely intense situations.
These aren't facts. They are allegations at this point.

Not to say there may not be truth to some (if not all) of what these two said...but their saying it does not make it fact.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

FEOS wrote:

These aren't facts. They are allegations at this point.

Not to say there may not be truth to some (if not all) of what these two said...but their saying it does not make it fact.
Your right. Everything they said could be fact. Better than saying nothing at all and letting mass media speculate on what really happened.

Eye witness accounts are closer to fact than the accounts of the outsiders and the exaggerations in the press. But feel free to put shit on these guys for coming out like they have though, after serving their country. I'm surprised you didn't use the term "wild allegations" - you might as well have.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6714|'Murka

AussieReaper wrote:

FEOS wrote:

These aren't facts. They are allegations at this point.

Not to say there may not be truth to some (if not all) of what these two said...but their saying it does not make it fact.
Your right. Everything they said could be fact. Better than saying nothing at all and letting mass media speculate on what really happened.

Eye witness accounts are closer to fact than the accounts of the outsiders and the exaggerations in the press. But feel free to put shit on these guys for coming out like they have though, after serving their country. I'm surprised you didn't use the term "wild allegations" - you might as well have.
I post a reasonable response with an objective perspective, applying common approaches to evidentiary procedure and you come back with that bullshit? Tell me some more about serving one's country...aren't you one of the ones who said that doesn't give one a pass? Maybe only when it's convenient to your position, I guess.

I see you can't be bothered with applying "innocent until proven guilty"...except when it's convenient to your position.

Eyewitness accounts generally have to be corroborated with other information. They are not accepted, on their own, as fact.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

Yeah eyewitness accounts have to be corroborated, but my point is that these accounts are infinitely more credible than the press coverage of Gitmo and the army's clearly defensive (understandable) response.

FEOS wrote:

I see you can't be bothered with applying "innocent until proven guilty"...except when it's convenient to your position.
Haha, "innocent until proven guilty" that's a good one considering it's the reason Gitmo has been so badly condemned the world over.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6832|Global Command

AussieReaper wrote:

Yeah eyewitness accounts have to be corroborated, but my point is that these accounts are infinitely more credible than the press coverage of Gitmo and the army's clearly defensive (understandable) response.

FEOS wrote:

I see you can't be bothered with applying "innocent until proven guilty"...except when it's convenient to your position.
Haha, "innocent until proven guilty" that's a good one considering it's the reason Gitmo has been so badly condemned the world over.
Dude, people didn't get sent there for being guilty, they got sent there for being on a battlefield. It wasn't so much punishment as it was trying to get information.

I'm glad that we can get back to doing this stuff in secret.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7065

ATG wrote:

I'm glad that we can get back to doing this stuff in secret.
yup.  no more cry babies who think if you hug them they will give you the info.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,983|6935|949

Kmarion wrote:

Kinda reminds me of that Jesse Macbeth feller. I'm sure this guy has proof though.
He couldn't possible be politically motivated.
http://i39.tinypic.com/ja8f7r.jpg
He reminded me of him too.  He is politically motivated, but it seems like his eagerness to give his story to a Human Rights group as opposed to MSM or as an allegation of misconduct is important.  It seems like he wants people to understand the personal turmoil he is going through more than alleged transgressions at Guantanamo.  That's what struck me as odd.

I also couldn't help but think of "A Few Good Men" when reading Neely's allegations.  It seems like the very things discussed in that movie regarding chain of command and institution-wide pressure in the Military have repeated in this instance.  If these allegations are true, what if any resolutions can be implemented?  Do we blame the Officers; the people carrying out the orders?
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6950
Just because many of us were guards at Guantanamo does not make us automatically bad people. I know for a fact one or two people, including myself, felt sorry for these people--and very ashamed of what we were taking part in. But what could we say? If we questioned anything or talked out against what we thought was wrong, we would have been ridiculed. And who knows what else we would have had to face.
This fat ass acts like he was working at Auschwitz. Grow a pair for fucks sake. You aren't going to be shot in the head for speaking out.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Kinda reminds me of that Jesse Macbeth feller. I'm sure this guy has proof though.
He couldn't possible be politically motivated.
http://i39.tinypic.com/ja8f7r.jpg
He reminded me of him too.  He is politically motivated, but it seems like his eagerness to give his story to a Human Rights group as opposed to MSM or as an allegation of misconduct is important.  It seems like he wants people to understand the personal turmoil he is going through more than alleged transgressions at Guantanamo.  That's what struck me as odd.

I also couldn't help but think of "A Few Good Men" when reading Neely's allegations.  It seems like the very things discussed in that movie regarding chain of command and institution-wide pressure in the Military have repeated in this instance.  If these allegations are true, what if any resolutions can be implemented?  Do we blame the Officers; the people carrying out the orders?
Tough questions. It will be interesting to see where this goes.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6708|North Carolina

ATG wrote:

I'm glad that we can get back to doing this stuff in secret.
Yep, back to Uzbekistan, where we can simply pay off the government to shut up about it.
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019
sounds like somebody wants to write a book and get paid... this pussy should have asked to work in the mess hall... Then he wouldn't have his feelings upset when he had to handle dangerous people that would kill him in a second and not give it a second thought...
Love is the answer
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7067|d

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

dangerous people that would kill him in a second
lulz.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6714|'Murka

AussieReaper wrote:

Yeah eyewitness accounts have to be corroborated, but my point is that these accounts are infinitely more credible than the press coverage of Gitmo and the army's clearly defensive (understandable) response.

FEOS wrote:

I see you can't be bothered with applying "innocent until proven guilty"...except when it's convenient to your position.
Haha, "innocent until proven guilty" that's a good one considering it's the reason Gitmo has been so badly condemned the world over.
So it's bad when one side does it, but OK when the other does?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7065

a fat fuck with an agenda obviously.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5889

Might is right
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6409|eXtreme to the maX

Aussiereaper wrote:

Eye witness accounts are closer to fact than the accounts of the outsiders and the exaggerations in the press. But feel free to put shit on these guys for coming out like they have though, after serving their country. I'm surprised you didn't use the term "wild allegations" - you might as well have.
Tsk tsk.
You should know by now, anything which FEOS says is a cold hard fact.
Anything anyone else says is 'unproven', 'wild speculation', 'tin foil hat conspiracy', however much supporting evidence there might be.
Oh, and you're not allowed to have an opinion unless you have a PhD in the subject under discussion.
Fuck Israel
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6714|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Aussiereaper wrote:

Eye witness accounts are closer to fact than the accounts of the outsiders and the exaggerations in the press. But feel free to put shit on these guys for coming out like they have though, after serving their country. I'm surprised you didn't use the term "wild allegations" - you might as well have.
Tsk tsk.
You should know by now, anything which FEOS says is a cold hard fact.
Anything anyone else says is 'unproven', 'wild speculation', 'tin foil hat conspiracy', however much supporting evidence there might be.
Oh, and you're not allowed to have an opinion unless you have a PhD in the subject under discussion.
Give it up, Nancy. I've said no such thing.

You're just pissy because you can't back up your positions with anything other than emotion.

I'm just applying the same logic to this situation that you all apply to the people in Gitmo itself.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6409|eXtreme to the maX
Yay insults, I win again.
Fuck Israel
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6714|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Yay insults, I win again.
"insults"?

lol
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
mikkel
Member
+383|6904

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

sounds like somebody wants to write a book and get paid... this pussy should have asked to work in the mess hall... Then he wouldn't have his feelings upset when he had to handle dangerous people that would kill him in a second and not give it a second thought...
Where do you get all of this information about the mentality of those detainees? Do you have a source, or are you just pulling it out of your prejudiced ass? Intolerance and prejudice is what got all of this mess started in the first place. Thanks for perpetuating it with your attitude.

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