Richard Dawkins reaches through book to kill a veteran.

2009-02-09 03:50:26

#26

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6599|'Murka

TheAussieReaper wrote:
FEOS wrote:
PureFodder wrote:

The article said that the guy believed in intelligent design. The book, amongst other things, presents a good argument against intelligent design and for evolution, which is appropriate for a biology class.
No, it isn't. Intelligent design vs evolution is a theological point, not a biological point.
It's both.

Intelligent design pushes the idea in a designer. Evolution does not.

Blind watchmaker theory.

They meet (and diverge) at the beginning of life. Everything after that is essentially identical. They both adhere to the concept that lifeforms change (evolve) over time. One says it is happenstance, the other that it is purposeful. Either way, the science of evolution beyond the creation of life is exactly the same.

Thus, it is a theological debate, not a scientific one--and has no place in a biology class.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-02-09 03:55:07

#27

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6341|what

FEOS wrote:
They meet (and diverge) at the beginning of life. Everything after that is essentially identical. They both adhere to the concept that lifeforms change (evolve) over time. One says it is happenstance, the other that it is purposeful. Either way, the science of evolution beyond the creation of life is exactly the same.

Thus, it is a theological debate, not a scientific one--and has no place in a biology class.

No it isn't just the start and creation. Intelligent design back peddles to the God created it all perfect, to "God is changing things to make them more perfect" depending on what type of intelligent design theory you adhere to (there are several with subtle changes).

But that's beside the point, Richard Dawkins discusses more than just God vs No God and discusses the intelligent design theory in his book.

2009-02-09 03:57:55

#28

Zukabazuka: Member; +23|6874

Intelligent Design former name was Creatism and its current name is Critical thinking. But the only thing that has changed in them is that God was renamed to something else and so was Creatism.

So if you believe in Intelligent design you would have to believe in a god to get it to work. So the book is part of it. Frankly only reason Intelligent design is still around is because christians want something against Evolution.

2009-02-09 04:07:11

#29

PureFodder: Member; +225|6474

FEOS wrote:
TheAussieReaper wrote:
FEOS wrote:

No, it isn't. Intelligent design vs evolution is a theological point, not a biological point.
It's both.

Intelligent design pushes the idea in a designer. Evolution does not.

Blind watchmaker theory.
They meet (and diverge) at the beginning of life. Everything after that is essentially identical. They both adhere to the concept that lifeforms change (evolve) over time. One says it is happenstance, the other that it is purposeful. Either way, the science of evolution beyond the creation of life is exactly the same.

Thus, it is a theological debate, not a scientific one--and has no place in a biology class.

Plenty of intelligent design versions have an intelligent designer actively controlling the evolution of life, from the new Earth types to those who believe that someone/thing actively controls how evolution works. Obviously we don't know what this guys exact beliefs were, but there are plenty of beliefs that go against scientific understanding fundamental to understanding biology. Some however do believe that God made the very first bit of life and then let it run it's own course, which would actually fit in with any biology arguments.

Without knowing more about the situation we can't really fault the lecturer.

2009-02-09 04:14:21

#30

JahManRed: wank; +646|6816|IRELAND

Christianity, the religion of peace..........................

2009-02-09 04:18:04

#31

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|6838

Hurricane2k9 wrote:
Hm. This kid was a veteran, insinuating that he may have seen some horrible things overseas. He was also still quite young relatively speaking - it seems like a lot more people his age are suffering from depression. Who knows what else could have been going on in his life... and the blame is placed on a fucking book?

This is as laughable as the whole "GTA causes school shootings" thing.

And OP don't get me started on the deaths caused by fanatical religious practices.

Also, talk about a sensationalist fucking title.

I believe the OP is rather tongue-in-cheek.

JahManRed wrote:
Christianity, the religion of peace..........................

More like atheism, religion of peace.

2009-02-09 04:52:36

#32

DesertFox-: The very model of a modern major general; +796|6873|United States of America

He's from NY? I would've sworn this would be from the South. God damn it, it is these fucking bastards who have tarnished the reputation of religion in general. It's not the Middle Ages anymore, and you can't go walking around with those attitudes. One could say that they should have...evolved, by now. Get with the program, people.

2009-02-09 06:25:02

#33

Bell: Frosties > Cornflakes; +362|6738|UK

Over the God delusion? Sweet Jesus........

Dawkins ain't exactly a theologian, nor a philosopher, Hitchens, made a better job of it in ''god is not great'', but even then you need to be pretty damn insecure in your beliefs to be shaken by an articulate bitching fest on God

Last edited by Bell (2009-02-09 06:54:15)

2009-02-09 06:33:54

#34

andy12: Banned; +52|6846

They should be giving that book out for free at schools like they did the bible at mine. Opening kids minds earlier on and allowing them to form their own opinions might help them not put a hole in their head with a pistol.

2009-02-09 06:50:22

#35

Zefar: Member; +116|6838|Sweden

Maybe he himself did some bad things back in his duty.
So when he got home he wanted to really check up if there was a God. He took that book and read through and then learned that how much evolution actually is supported.

Then comes to conclusion, instead of living with the terror of his past he ends it right there.
Still it's not atheism fault for this happening. The guy either did or saw some bad things in his life that he couldn't handle.

Btw about the thing Zukabazuka said. At first when Creation wanted to throw in their teaching into school again it was named Creationism or something. Basically said everything had a single designer.
The New Intelligent Design theory they made up was just them changing creation or creator to Intelligent Designer. This was done in 1987 too. The ID is exactly the same as creation except that a it gotten a name change. This was done ONLY to make it skip the scientific test to get into school. But it failed pretty good. Hopefully they will give up with it.

2009-02-09 06:52:02

#36

Aries_37: arrivederci frog; +368|6763|London

andy12 wrote:
They should be giving that book out for free at schools like they did the bible at mine. Opening kids minds earlier on and allowing them to form their own opinions might help them not put a hole in their head with a pistol.

Sure, except i doubt dawkins would let them. He stopped giving a shit what people believed a long time ago and now only cares about money. His first few books were a good read but the god delusion is just him milking the franchise. Poorly written and lacks any scientific grounding.

If this guy killed himself over this book he gets a darwin award.

2009-02-09 07:33:27

#37

oug: Calmer than you are.; +380|6708|Πάϊ

Imagine how brainwashed this kid must 've been for the truth to have such an effect on him. I can't even think what kind of bullshit his parents fed him all these years.

btw notice how the fact that he was a veteran comes into play in the OP - to suggest that he was no ordinary puny gay civilian.

Natural selection tbh

_ƒ³

2009-02-09 08:21:11

#38

andy12: Banned; +52|6846

Aries_37 wrote:
andy12 wrote:
They should be giving that book out for free at schools like they did the bible at mine. Opening kids minds earlier on and allowing them to form their own opinions might help them not put a hole in their head with a pistol.
Sure, except i doubt dawkins would let them. He stopped giving a shit what people believed a long time ago and now only cares about money. His first few books were a good read but the god delusion is just him milking the franchise. Poorly written and lacks any scientific grounding.

If this guy killed himself over this book he gets a darwin award.

I imagine the schools would buy in bulk and hand them out, he'd get money and our society isn't full of sheeple. Perhaps add studying Dawkins work to the curriculum rather than studying "Men and mice" or whatever that shit was.

2009-02-09 08:47:36

#39

Ajax_the_Great1: Dropped on request; +206|6835

Musta been a really good book.

Kinda reminds you of a robot. "Does not compute!"

2009-02-09 09:26:21

#40

M.O.A.B: 'Light 'em up!'; +1,220|6411|Escea

Braddock wrote:
Books don't kill people, people who write books do.

Depends how hard the book was thrown, or whether Jason Bourne was using it at the time.

But the only one responsible is the kid, he pulled the trigger. There are factors yes, but I doubt either side would have dreamed it would end up like this.

2009-02-09 10:58:11

#41

Bertster7: Confused Pothead; +1,101|6770|SE London

FEOS wrote:
Thus, it is a theological debate, not a scientific one--and has no place in a biology class.

Damn straight.

2009-02-09 12:32:04

#42

krazed: Admiral of the Bathtub; +619|6968|Great Brown North

Warhammer wrote:
I remember reading how an atheist author (forgot his name) shot himself with a shotgun because that was the way he wanted to die

yeah well this one time, i read about this christian that killed a bunch of people!!!111oenoneone...eleventy

uevjHEYFFQ wrote:
This young veteran was killed by the evil teaching of this "man"

no, he killed himself for unknown reasons.

uevjHEYFFQ wrote:
Atheism claims another victim, that along with millions of other death's caused by atheist and abortion.

because all atheists support abortion, and religion has never caused a death

article wrote:
After Jesse's death, Keith Kilgore learned of the book assignment from two of his son's friends and a relative. He searched Jesse's room and found the book under the mattress with his son's bookmark on the last page.

so he read a book before he shot himself? OMFG CONNECTION!

and lol at the link in the article

Discover how atheism and immorality are being cleverly sold to Americans in David Kupelian's controversial best seller, "The Marketing of Evil."

hmm.. clearly the most unbiased site for this to be on

2009-02-09 13:21:40

#43

Havok: Nymphomaniac Treatment Specialist; +302|6863|Florida, United States

Just in case you've all forgotten, WorldNetDaily falls somewhere between Fox News and The Onion on the exaggeratory/bullshit scale. This article was meant to incite arguments. Obviously, reading a book wouldn't cause somebody to commit suicide.

2009-02-09 14:27:24

#44

Diesel_dyk: Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears; +178|6183|Truthistan

Probably PTSD... sad

JahManRed wrote:
Christianity, the religion of peace..........................

True.... After all the non believers have been purged, either spiritually or viscerally.

The fathers argument reminds me of the album burning crazies and the suicide lawsuit against Judas Priest. Remember the satanic voices coming from albums being played backwards. All I can say is thank god for CDs, it keeps the crazies from playing them backwards. Thanks to the engineer who designed for the lowest common idiot on that one.

I think that the kid probably used faith to keep the PTSD demons away. If someone stripped that away and that caused him to kill him self then that is really sad. He probably needed more mental health services from the VA and should have dropped the class for mental health reasons. The kids sanity was more important than being right or wrong about faith and aethism... But that is just me spectulating.

2009-02-09 16:12:00

#45

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6593|North Carolina

Honestly, I think he probably killed himself because he was 22 but still looked like he was 15.

2009-02-09 17:39:35

#46

Narupug: Fodder Mostly; +150|5785|Vacationland

They're blaming the book? WTF, there are plenty of books that are extremely dark and abysmal. This book is just trying to break through the brainwash of christianity, not pushing some dark message. Heck at my High school some Junior went into the Bathroom and shot himself in the head, that kid had issues and so do most who resort to the same thing stop making a big deal out of the little coincidences. If anything's to blame, blame the parents who pushed those radical values or just cut to the chase and blame the bible.

Natural Selection FTW!!!

Last edited by Narupug (2009-02-09 21:26:46)

2009-02-09 17:43:16

#47

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,978|6820|949

Maybe it was Marilyn Manson, Ozzie Osbourne, GTAIV and The God Delusion

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2009-02-09 17:43:36)

2009-02-09 17:51:41

#48

Mitch: 16 more years; +877|6714|South Florida

uevjHEYFFQ wrote:
Atheism claims another victim, that along with millions of other death's caused by atheist and abortion.

Ha, ok, how about the millions slain in the name of god? how many witches were exterminated, how many 'non believers' were beheaded for speaking against the lord? how many people were SACRIFICED to please the crop god?

15 more years! 15 more years!

2009-02-09 18:01:02

#49

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,978|6820|949

Mitch wrote:
uevjHEYFFQ wrote:
Atheism claims another victim, that along with millions of other death's caused by atheist and abortion.
Ha, ok, how about the millions slain in the name of god? how many witches were exterminated, how many 'non believers' were beheaded for speaking against the lord? how many people were SACRIFICED to please the crop god?

His OP is tongue-in-cheek.

2009-02-09 18:16:02

#50

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6341|what

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Maybe it was Marilyn Manson, Ozzie Osbourne, GTAIV and The God Delusion

No, it was The God Delusion and Slayer.

He listened to their album God Illusion.

BF2S Forums Richard Dawkins reaches through book to kill a veteran.

TheAussieReaper wrote:

FEOS wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

TheAussieReaper wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

andy12 wrote:

Aries_37 wrote:

andy12 wrote:

Braddock wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Warhammer wrote:

uevjHEYFFQ wrote:

uevjHEYFFQ wrote:

article wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

uevjHEYFFQ wrote:

Mitch wrote:

uevjHEYFFQ wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Board footer