TSI
Cholera in the time of love
+247|6284|Toronto
source: http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/06/BAR … pstoryview

(CNN) -- A New Year's Day shooting in which a subway police officer fired a deadly shot into the back of an unarmed man has the San Francisco Bay Area demanding answers as authorities appeal for patience.
Oscar Grant, 22, was killed January 1 in a shooting at a subway station in California's Bay Area.

Oscar Grant, 22, was killed January 1 in a shooting at a subway station in California's Bay Area.

Bay Area Rapid Transit spokesman Linton Johnson told CNN affiliate KTVU-TV in Oakland, California, that the officer is presumed innocent and described him as devastated.

Attorney John Burris called the shooting "unconscionable" and said he filed a $25 million claim with BART on Tuesday, alleging wrongful death and violation of civil rights by use of excessive force. BART has 45 days to respond, Burris said.

"It's a clear shooting in the back that should not have taken place," Burris said, characterizing the incident as a case of "overagressiveness by police."

KTVU obtained at least two videos of the incident and its prelude. One video, which KTVU reported came from a train passenger who wished not to be identified, shows three young men against a wall in the crowded Fruitvale station.

Karina Vargas, who also provided a video to KTVU, said the men had been pulled from the train car in front of hers. Video Watch the events preceding the shooting »

Burris said Tuesday that the young men had been celebrating the new year at a popular waterfront tourist spot, The Embarcadero. They were heading home when police pulled them from the train car.

Some of the young men were handcuffed, but not 22-year-old Oscar Grant. The video from the anonymous passenger shows Grant seated on the floor with his back against the wall.

Grant holds up his hands, appearing to plead with police. Burris said Tuesday that Grant was asking police not to use a Taser.

"He said to them, 'Don't Tase me; I have a 4-year-old daughter,' " Burris said.

The interaction on the video is not audible.

Seconds later, police put Grant face-down on the ground. Grant appears to struggle.

One of the officers kneels on Grant as another officer stands up, tugs at his gun, unholsters it and fires a shot into Grant's back.

Burris said the bullet went through Grant's back and then ricocheted off the floor and through his lungs.

Grant, who has a 4-year-old daughter, died seven hours later, KTVU reported.

"I couldn't believe it. We was already following directions and everything, and they shot him," Fernando Anicete, one of the young men with Grant, told KTVU.

Burris has spoken to witnesses who claim that Grant was trying to resolve the situation.

"He had been telling people to calm down. 'Be cool. Just do what they tell you to do,' " the attorney said.

Johnson said the video provided to KTVU is inconclusive.

There are two surveillance cameras at the Fruitvale station, but a BART official told CNN that no video is being released at this time.

The community is outraged, according to local media. CNN affiliate KRON-TV in San Francisco reported that about 20 people rallied Monday outside BART's district headquarters in Oakland.

"A 22-year-old unarmed father was executed and assassinated, and BART expects us to swallow that the shooting may have been an accident," protest organizer Evan Shamar of Oakland shouted through a bullhorn, according to KRON.

BART says an investigation is ongoing and hasn't reached any conclusions.

The San Francisco Chronicle published an editorial Tuesday demanding answers as well.

"The BART police say that they are taking the investigation very seriously, but they had better find a way to reach out to the public effectively about what is going on and why. Otherwise, public outrage over this case is going to grow exponentially with every passing day," the newspaper said.

BART Police Chief Gary Gee released a statement this week expressing condolences for Grant's family and saying the authority is cooperating with the Alameda County district attorney's office, which is also investigating.

Gee added that BART will complete an "unbiased and thorough investigation" and asked the public to be patient.

"As frustrating as it is, I want to stress that we cannot and will not jeopardize this case by discussing details before the investigation is complete," Gee said.

Gee provided minor details of what preceded the shooting: BART police received a report that two groups of passengers were involved in an altercation as their train left the West Oakland Station about 2 a.m.

"BART police officers responded to the platform at Fruitvale and detained several persons," Gee said in his statement.

BART has not identified the officer, saying only that he has been on the force two years. He has undergone drug and alcohol testing and is on administrative leave, both of which are standard procedure, according to BART.

The officer has yet to make a public statement.

Johnson and Gee say they are refraining from releasing further details to avoid compromising the investigation. Johnson further told KTVU that BART wanted to avoid "polluting the potential pool of witnesses."

Burris, however, said there is no excuse for the use of force on a man being restrained by police. If BART does not grant his $25 million claim or if the authority fails to respond in 45 days, Burris intends to file a lawsuit, he said.

Burris, who served as Rodney King's co-counsel in King's civil case against the Los Angeles Police Department, said he also wants criminal charges filed against the officer.

He is pushing the Alameda County District Attorney Tom Orloff to press second-degree murder or involuntary manslaughter charges, he said.

Second-degree murder charges would be warranted if the officer shot Grant in the back when Grant posed no danger, Burris said. However, there are reports speculating that the officer accidentally shot Grant, in which case involuntary manslaughter charges would be appropriate, Burris said.

"No one wants to believe a cop would just kill somebody like that," he said. "My view is, this is criminal conduct, period."

Johnson told KTVU that authorities are trying to determine whether the officer who shot Grant accidentally drew his gun instead of his Taser.

He also said authorities still need to speak to all the officers but that the BART officers involved in the incident felt outnumbered and called the Oakland Police Department for backup.

"We need to take our time and go through this thoroughly and try to figure everything out. There's more to this story than this one angle," Johnson told the station.

Asked whether there were developments Tuesday, Johnson said he had none.
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Thomas Blalock, president of BART's board of directors, has urged the public not to jump to conclusions.

"Let's get the puzzle put together, and then we'll come to a conclusion," Blalock told KTVU.


Your take?
I like pie.
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6791|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
Holy fucking novel batman!

I hold all thoughts on the matter until the investigation is done.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,984|6936|949

Can anyone offer up a logical justification for shooting someone in the back who is pinned stomach-down on the ground?
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|7083|Great Brown North
A 22-year-old unarmed father was executed and assassinated
assassinated?
Attorney John Burris called the shooting "unconscionable" and said he filed a $25 million claim with BART on Tuesday
well that didnt take long

SgtHeihn wrote:

Holy fucking novel batman!

I hold all thoughts on the matter until the investigation is done.
this, but i'm having a hard time coming up with his reasoning
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7020
I just watched the video and the kid did wrestle a bit.... but he sure as heck didn't deserve to be shot...

The attorney who is suing for 25 million dollars is a scumbag douche... opportunist dirtbag piece if sh*t...  so he goes to court wins the money...
the poor kid is still dead... the family gets a little money and he gets a boatload of money... F him...
Love is the answer
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6410|eXtreme to the maX

Catbox wrote:

the poor kid is still dead... the family gets a little money and he gets a boatload of money... F him...
And the PD has to make doubly sure its officers don't go around shooting kids in the back for fun - good job on the lawyer, fuck the PD.
Fuck Israel
wah1188
You orrible caaaaaaan't
+321|6764|UK
That is horrible. Reminds me of the Brazilian that got shot on the tube. I can remember seeing the headline "suicide bomber shot dead on the tube" and thinking to myself gj police. I'm guessing it's going to take a long time for the poor mans family to see justice as the police attempt to cover their backs.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6410|eXtreme to the maX

wah1188 wrote:

I'm guessing it's going to take a long time for the poor mans family to see justice as the police attempt to cover their backs.
The inquest went the Brazilians way, no one is going to be brought to justice however.
Fuck Israel
wah1188
You orrible caaaaaaan't
+321|6764|UK

Dilbert_X wrote:

wah1188 wrote:

I'm guessing it's going to take a long time for the poor mans family to see justice as the police attempt to cover their backs.
The inquest went the Brazilians way, no one is going to be brought to justice however.
Thank you for telling me something I already know.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

That $25 million comes straight from the tax payers.

I feel sorry for the man killed.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
bad-man
now say you sorry
+34|6151|one windy city
i understand that cops have tough jobs and sometimes are faced with difficult situations where they can overreact or panic and discharge a weapon in error - THIS WAS NOT ONE OF THOSE !!! this was indeed a murder and they should be jailed with other deserving murderers
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7020

Dilbert_X wrote:

Catbox wrote:

the poor kid is still dead... the family gets a little money and he gets a boatload of money... F him...
And the PD has to make doubly sure its officers don't go around shooting kids in the back for fun - good job on the lawyer, fuck the PD.
So you're cool with the lawyer taking advantage of a tragic situation...?  This attitude kind of sums you up in a nutshell... lol
Love is the answer
jord
Member
+2,382|6982|The North, beyond the wall.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Can anyone offer up a logical justification for shooting someone in the back who is pinned stomach-down on the ground?
About the only excuse would be that the guy had a detonator for a Nuclear weapon and was counting down out loud to the Police after he announced that if they didn't shoot him then he's going to set it off.

This was not the case.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6410|eXtreme to the maX

Catbox wrote:

So you're cool with the lawyer taking advantage of a tragic situation...?  This attitude kind of sums you up in a nutshell... lol
I doubt there would be any prospect the Police would take any action without:
The cellphone footage
Lawyers looking for an angle

I despise lawyers as much as anyone, but sometimes they are needed to keep PDs honest.
Fuck Israel
Spazz
Member
+7|6870
From what i heard the taser is holstered next to his gun. People told me that its possible when the officer reached for his taser he grabbed his gun and shot the poor guy. It could just be a accident. Also the officer that shot the guy was only on the force for 2 years.
TopHat01
Limitless
+117|6208|CA
Jesus Christ, I live in this area, and I've taken BART before.

But if you've ever seen/met anyone from East Oakland, I think you'd understand this cop's point of view slightly better.  It's fucking scary there, no joke.  Plus, these guys wear the baggiest clothing, thus making a concealed weapon harder to spot.  I'm not saying this man had one, I'm saying that many of these people brag about how many cops they've killed, and how many more they plan/want to kill.  Joining the Oakland Police Force isn't far from the Marines, these citizens are armed and aren't afraid to kill law enforcement.  I'm sure this wasn't your average traveler, this guy had to be causing some sort of trouble...

Rumors around here said the guy was fighting on the train...but to be executed Niko Bellic style?  Shit, that's messed up.  And you'd think the difference between a Beretta and a Tazer is pretty significant.

Many he pissed off the cop...

Last edited by TopHat01 (2009-01-07 00:52:05)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Can anyone offer up a logical justification for shooting someone in the back who is pinned stomach-down on the ground?
Sounds like he shot him by accident. Not an excuse but an explaination. This guy should have to pay for this if the article reflex the facts.
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|7000|NJ
Jail him, there is no excuse.. The man was being held down and the bullet went through his back and ricochet up to his lung.. It's clear cut Murder.
Just because a Murderer has a badge doesn't make him any less of a murderer.. The cop is feeling horrible about it because he knows he going to end up in jail..

If there was a fight between two groups of people that was broken up and no one wants to press charges the cops shouldn't have been involved anyway..
tuckergustav
...
+1,590|6217|...

Seems like it could be possible that the officer thought he was grabbing his taser.  If he was only on the force for 2 years I would assume he is young and may have gotten too excited.  This ,however, does not mean he is not responsible.  It is his job to be in control of his firearms at ALL times.  This is a responsibility they accept when going through the training and by wearing the uniform.  So, i think he should have criminal charges against him...

but it really bugs me that a lawyer has already filed for money damages so soon.  This is just an opportunistic, greedy lawyer that doesn't give a rats ass about any of the people involved.
...
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,984|6936|949

lowing wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Can anyone offer up a logical justification for shooting someone in the back who is pinned stomach-down on the ground?
Sounds like he shot him by accident. Not an excuse but an explaination. This guy should have to pay for this if the article reflex the facts.
Why would he pull his gun in the first place?  Why would he pull a taser on someone who is already pinned down?

Sorry, I accidently pulled my gun out of the holster, pointed and shot you.

Still doesn't make sense.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2009-01-07 08:57:55)

kylef
Gone
+1,352|6797|N. Ireland

tuckergustav wrote:

Seems like it could be possible that the officer thought he was grabbing his taser.  If he was only on the force for 2 years I would assume he is young and may have gotten too excited.  This ,however, does not mean he is not responsible.  It is his job to be in control of his firearms at ALL times.  This is a responsibility they accept when going through the training and by wearing the uniform.  So, i think he should have criminal charges against him...

but it really bugs me that a lawyer has already filed for money damages so soon.  This is just an opportunistic, greedy lawyer that doesn't give a rats ass about any of the people involved.
"your safety should be on at all times". I doubt the officer, during the switch of the safety, could mix the two up then. Or was he carrying around a gun without a safety on? Either way, to do this is just stupid. More stupid than the time those officers tasered a paralyzed person 19 times because he would not move.
tuckergustav
...
+1,590|6217|...

kylef wrote:

tuckergustav wrote:

Seems like it could be possible that the officer thought he was grabbing his taser.  If he was only on the force for 2 years I would assume he is young and may have gotten too excited.  This ,however, does not mean he is not responsible.  It is his job to be in control of his firearms at ALL times.  This is a responsibility they accept when going through the training and by wearing the uniform.  So, i think he should have criminal charges against him...

but it really bugs me that a lawyer has already filed for money damages so soon.  This is just an opportunistic, greedy lawyer that doesn't give a rats ass about any of the people involved.
"your safety should be on at all times". I doubt the officer, during the switch of the safety, could mix the two up then. Or was he carrying around a gun without a safety on? Either way, to do this is just stupid. More stupid than the time those officers tasered a paralyzed person 19 times because he would not move.
I thought that when officers went into a "potentially dangerous" situation they turned their safety off...it would make sense since if something DOES  happen, they need a "hot" gun...not sure but I think I had heard that and it would make sense.  But what I would be interested to know is what steps are involved in firing a taser gun.  Isn't there an extra step?
...
destruktion_6143
Was ist Loos?
+154|6930|Canada
vid proves this sick officer executed this poor man.

mcjagdflieger
Champion of Dueling Rectums
+26|6614|South Jersey
Everyone talking about gun safeties and them being activated or not needs to shut their mouth if they have no firearms experience, or do not know how to operate said safety. There are multiple forms of them, ala single action, double action, etc. Either way the officer's gun was equipped, one still needs to pull a trigger for the firearm to discharge.  Then you counter in the fact that none of this is relevant to the case. The cop already shot him, the position of his safety...non-issue. He shot a man on the ground, in the back. Without knowing what exactly was going on and what was said, it is all we can do to speculate. I speculate he should probably end up in jail for what he did, and the lawyer should accompany him. Payoff for family? Sure, toss them .5 to 1 million bucks.  But 25 million? Who the fuck does he think the poor guy was, a CEO? Perhaps payouts for wrongful death cases should be determined by a persons average wages, abilities, their dependents etc, lets stop with throwing insane amounts of money at some people that worked at 7-11.
kylef
Gone
+1,352|6797|N. Ireland

tuckergustav wrote:

I thought that when officers went into a "potentially dangerous" situation they turned their safety off...it would make sense since if something DOES  happen, they need a "hot" gun...not sure but I think I had heard that and it would make sense.  But what I would be interested to know is what steps are involved in firing a taser gun.  Isn't there an extra step?
Definitely not the same in the UK as far as I know. I bet the extra step is "ensure you are firing the taser gun" - heh.

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