Catbox
forgiveness
+505|6686
PORTLAND, Ore. —  Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring ways to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of how much gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring devices in 300 vehicles. The idea first emerged nearly 10 years ago as Oregon lawmakers worried that fuel-efficient cars such as gas-electric hybrids could pose a threat to road upkeep, which is paid for largely with gasoline taxes.

looks like this will be an issue with our move from gas powered vehicles...


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475507,00.html
Love is the answer
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6499|Global Command
Lame.
Government parasites with their hands out.
As usual.
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6192|Brisneyland
This seems to be the wrong way to get people into more fuel efficient vehicles. Although there is something to be said for a system where the people that use the roads most pay more for their use, I dont think it will work, especially as it will hit businesses that rely on transport very hard. If people that dont use roads much paid less then it may be worth looking at , but lets face it govts would never do that. Pretty much boils down to what ATG said. I think the privacy issue stinks as well.
Noobpatty
ʎʇʇɐdqoou
+194|6324|West NY
GG at helping the environment, great idea.
After all money is more important than the environment you live in, right?
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6463|Connecticut

Noobpatty wrote:

GG at helping the environment, great idea.
After all money is more important than the environment you live in, right?
Actually, it has been proven that hybrids are worse for the environment than cars with combustible engines.

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/editoria … NewsID=188
Malloy must go
JahManRed
wank
+646|6598|IRELAND

lol, blame the hippies. Its always their fault anyway.
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6192|Brisneyland

deeznutz1245 wrote:

Noobpatty wrote:

GG at helping the environment, great idea.
After all money is more important than the environment you live in, right?
Actually, it has been proven that hybrids are worse for the environment than cars with combustible engines.

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/editoria … NewsID=188
That myth has been debunked by Toyota and also by scientific groups.
Check here and here
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

I took this yesterday.. it was too ironic hypocritical.

https://i42.tinypic.com/2ajoz2a.jpg

The best their minivan could have gotten is 16 mpg.

https://i39.tinypic.com/2a6nk3q.gif
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

PORTLAND, Ore. —  Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring ways to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of how much gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring devices in 300 vehicles. The idea first emerged nearly 10 years ago as Oregon lawmakers worried that fuel-efficient cars such as gas-electric hybrids could pose a threat to road upkeep, which is paid for largely with gasoline taxes.

looks like this will be an issue with our move from gas powered vehicles...


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475507,00.html
Good god...  talk about Big Brother...
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6518|San Diego, CA, USA
Why not each time you register your car you pay taxes on the miles driven and then get refunded the taxes you paid already?


I.e.  Let say in a year you drive 12,000 miles.  You have a Prius and get 40mpg, thus use 300 gallons (12000m/ 40mpg) of gas.

Lets say the state's gas tax is $0.25/gallon...so you paid $75 (300 gal * $0.25/gal) in gas tax.
@ $0.012 / mile driven you owe the state $144.  However you already paid $75 in gas so you pay an extra $69 in your registration.


Now the same as above but you drive an SUV that gets 20mpg.  You would have paid $150 in gas taxes and thus have a $6 refund when you register your SUV.


Now the problem is how do you keep track of the gas you paid at the pump?  When you pump gas do you have to show your Driver's license and that is recorded and sent to the state?  Pretty simple solution really because Costo, a United State discount retailer, has a membership card that you have to swipe before being allowed to pump gas.

Now if you decide NOT to swipe your driver's license does that mean you have to pay x2 the normal gas tax?



The above solution does NOT require you put a GPS unit into every car, but has the added expense of retrofitting all gas stations to be able to swipe drivers licenses.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6663
Solutions:
a) Buy an old car w/o GPS.
b) Train as an engineer and build your own car or mess around with a new one for personal gain.
c) Pay someone to do b.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

Harmor wrote:

Why not each time you register your car you pay taxes on the miles driven and then get refunded the taxes you paid already?


I.e.  Let say in a year you drive 12,000 miles.  You have a Prius and get 40mpg, thus use 300 gallons (12000m/ 40mpg) of gas.

Lets say the state's gas tax is $0.25/gallon...so you paid $75 (300 gal * $0.25/gal) in gas tax.
@ $0.012 / mile driven you owe the state $144.  However you already paid $75 in gas so you pay an extra $69 in your registration.


Now the same as above but you drive an SUV that gets 20mpg.  You would have paid $150 in gas taxes and thus have a $6 refund when you register your SUV.


Now the problem is how do you keep track of the gas you paid at the pump?  When you pump gas do you have to show your Driver's license and that is recorded and sent to the state?  Pretty simple solution really because Costo, a United State discount retailer, has a membership card that you have to swipe before being allowed to pump gas.

Now if you decide NOT to swipe your driver's license does that mean you have to pay x2 the normal gas tax?



The above solution does NOT require you put a GPS unit into every car, but has the added expense of retrofitting all gas stations to be able to swipe drivers licenses.
I understand the principle of this, but you have to consider the Big Brother aspects of this.  Your system or the one being proposed by the article is well suited for the government to track your movements.  The GPS system is more intrusive, but the driver's license is still big brotherish.

Now, I know that the private sector can essentially do the same thing when you use your credit card at pumps, but at least with the current system, you have the choice of staying discrete.  You can always pay cash at the pumps without using an ID of any sort.

Personally, I just don't like the idea of having the government being able to track my every movement.

Granted, there is a way they can already do that and more with many new cars.  OnStar comes standard with many vehicles now -- mine included.  I have mine disabled, but for the ones that are enabled, this gives the government the ability to track your movements (if they happen to use things like FISA to their advantage) and can even disable your starter (since this is a function that OnStar can do if your car gets stolen).

Overall, this entire pay with your ID seems like a subtle way for the government to be more intrusive under the guise of being environmentally friendly.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6518|San Diego, CA, USA
By you showing your driver's license (that the government issued to you with your picture, Social Security Number, home address, and thumb print), when you purchase gas the only additional information they get from you is:

1.  How much you paid for the gas that day
2.  Where and when you were when you paid for your gas

Which, guess what is probably 90% of the time a gas station near the address they have on file with you.  So I don't think this is any more information that gas stations who have their own cards or the credit card agency you use.

Now if you pay and decide not to show your driver's license then you'll be paying extra taxes.

I can't think of a better solution at this time to solve the decrease state gas tax revenue.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

Harmor wrote:

By you showing your driver's license (that the government issued to you with your picture, Social Security Number, home address, and thumb print), when you purchase gas the only additional information they get from you is:

1.  How much you paid for the gas that day
2.  Where and when you were when you paid for your gas

Which, guess what is probably 90% of the time a gas station near the address they have on file with you.  So I don't think this is any more information that gas stations who have their own cards or the credit card agency you use.

Now if you pay and decide not to show your driver's license then you'll be paying extra taxes.

I can't think of a better solution at this time to solve the decrease state gas tax revenue.
That's only assuming we go with the pay by mileage plan.

All the states have to do is spend less.  That's the real solution here.
Miggle
FUCK UBISOFT
+1,411|6712|FUCK UBISOFT

Kmarion wrote:

I took this yesterday.. it was too ironic hypocritical.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2ajoz2a.jpg

The best their minivan could have gotten is 16 mpg.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2a6nk3q.gif
lol, pastafarians.
https://i.imgur.com/86fodNE.png
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6193|Escea

https://lh5.ggpht.com/_f02xo53i8NM/R0NJuVWsdwI/AAAAAAAAB-c/lqQ7CAWpoEo/100_2448.jpg

Coming from groups who preach against pollution while operating a diesel chugging tugboat its not surprising, they're never happy no matter what you do.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6518|San Diego, CA, USA

Turquoise wrote:

That's only assuming we go with the pay by mileage plan.

All the states have to do is spend less.  That's the real solution here.
Thanks to the Iraq war + the economic crisis we have Democrats in power right now.  If any historian looked at their policies in the last 50 years you know we're in for alot of new spending and big brother solutions like what the governor of Oregon is suggesting. 

GPS units in each car...gee wiz...I don't even have a GPS navigation system in my car.  Have they said how much one of these receivers would cost?  Would cost to install?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

Harmor wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

That's only assuming we go with the pay by mileage plan.

All the states have to do is spend less.  That's the real solution here.
Thanks to the Iraq war + the economic crisis we have Democrats in power right now.  If any historian looked at their policies in the last 50 years you know we're in for alot of new spending and big brother solutions like what the governor of Oregon is suggesting. 

GPS units in each car...gee wiz...I don't even have a GPS navigation system in my car.  Have they said how much one of these receivers would cost?  Would cost to install?
I think you misunderstand me, Harmor.  I definitely prefer your plan over the GPS thing, but I was saying that I prefer government spending less over that.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6518|San Diego, CA, USA

Turquoise wrote:

I think you misunderstand me, Harmor.  I definitely prefer your plan over the GPS thing, but I was saying that I prefer government spending less over that.
I wish government would 'spend within their means', but the only things immortal in this world is time and a government program. 

Until we elect fiscally conservative politicians we won't be seeing government spending reductions.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

Harmor wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I think you misunderstand me, Harmor.  I definitely prefer your plan over the GPS thing, but I was saying that I prefer government spending less over that.
I wish government would 'spend within their means', but the only things immortal in this world is time and a government program. 

Until we elect fiscally conservative politicians we won't be seeing government spending reductions.
Some politicians will surprise you in a pleasant way.  Clinton actually decreased government spending during most of his time as president.  He didn't exactly run as a fiscal conservative.

I'm not sure what to expect with Obama, but I guess we'll see.

As for governors, I know that Mike Easley (the governor of NC) is somewhat fiscally conservative.  We have had a state recession for about the last 10 years or so, so we're kind of used to spending less in general.  Granted, we still have plenty of room for improvement.

It looks like Arnold might try to cut spending.  Hopefully, he will, because it's about the best option he's got.
The#1Spot
Member
+105|6510|byah

Harmor wrote:

By you showing your driver's license (that the government issued to you with your picture, Social Security Number, home address, and thumb print), when you purchase gas the only additional information they get from you is:

1.  How much you paid for the gas that day
2.  Where and when you were when you paid for your gas

Which, guess what is probably 90% of the time a gas station near the address they have on file with you.  So I don't think this is any more information that gas stations who have their own cards or the credit card agency you use.

Now if you pay and decide not to show your driver's license then you'll be paying extra taxes.

I can't think of a better solution at this time to solve the decrease state gas tax revenue.
Increase tax on tobacco products 200% of what it is now. Make weed legal and people in possession must carry a license and be taxed monthly.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

The#1Spot wrote:

Harmor wrote:

By you showing your driver's license (that the government issued to you with your picture, Social Security Number, home address, and thumb print), when you purchase gas the only additional information they get from you is:

1.  How much you paid for the gas that day
2.  Where and when you were when you paid for your gas

Which, guess what is probably 90% of the time a gas station near the address they have on file with you.  So I don't think this is any more information that gas stations who have their own cards or the credit card agency you use.

Now if you pay and decide not to show your driver's license then you'll be paying extra taxes.

I can't think of a better solution at this time to solve the decrease state gas tax revenue.
Increase tax on tobacco products 200% of what it is now. Make weed legal and people in possession must carry a license and be taxed monthly.
Why not keep tobacco taxes the same, legalize and tax weed like cigarettes, but cut government bureaucracy?
The#1Spot
Member
+105|6510|byah

Turquoise wrote:

The#1Spot wrote:

Harmor wrote:

By you showing your driver's license (that the government issued to you with your picture, Social Security Number, home address, and thumb print), when you purchase gas the only additional information they get from you is:

1.  How much you paid for the gas that day
2.  Where and when you were when you paid for your gas

Which, guess what is probably 90% of the time a gas station near the address they have on file with you.  So I don't think this is any more information that gas stations who have their own cards or the credit card agency you use.

Now if you pay and decide not to show your driver's license then you'll be paying extra taxes.

I can't think of a better solution at this time to solve the decrease state gas tax revenue.
Increase tax on tobacco products 200% of what it is now. Make weed legal and people in possession must carry a license and be taxed monthly.
Why not keep tobacco taxes the same, legalize and tax weed like cigarettes, but cut government bureaucracy?
Or could put a $2 tax on it for every state in stead of only 7 currently.

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/cigarett.html

and/or not give illegal aliens health care when at the ER.

Last edited by The#1Spot (2009-01-03 16:43:37)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

The#1Spot wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

The#1Spot wrote:


Increase tax on tobacco products 200% of what it is now. Make weed legal and people in possession must carry a license and be taxed monthly.
Why not keep tobacco taxes the same, legalize and tax weed like cigarettes, but cut government bureaucracy?
Or could put a $2 tax on it for every state in stead of only 7 currently.

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/cigarett.html
Given differences in costs of living between states, I can't support that.  It's easier for the average New Yorker to pay $2 extra per pack than for the average North Carolinian, because New Yorkers generally get paid more.

By the same token, the average person in Mississippi gets paid even less than someone here.
The#1Spot
Member
+105|6510|byah

Turquoise wrote:

The#1Spot wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


Why not keep tobacco taxes the same, legalize and tax weed like cigarettes, but cut government bureaucracy?
Or could put a $2 tax on it for every state in stead of only 7 currently.

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/cigarett.html
Given differences in costs of living between states, I can't support that.  It's easier for the average New Yorker to pay $2 extra per pack than for the average North Carolinian, because New Yorkers generally get paid more.

By the same token, the average person in Mississippi gets paid even less than someone here.
True but unlike the government they would have to cut spending in one area to be able to satisfy another.

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