BF3s Book Club

2011-03-26 04:33:22

#851

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6728

Dilbert_X wrote:
Uzique wrote:
i just find that sort of absolute denunciation based upon taste a little hard to swallow...
Irony.

we're talking about classics, not glenn beck

no irony whatsoever

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-03-26 05:04:06

#852

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6669|'Murka

Uzique wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
Uzique wrote:
i just find that sort of absolute denunciation based upon taste a little hard to swallow...
Irony.
we're talking about classics, not glenn beck

no irony whatsoever

Different situations. In one, you've actually read the work to develop an opinion. In the Beck case...not so much.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-03-26 09:45:24

#853

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6728

no. in one you can generalize without reading and make a comment that it has some artistic worth (that's the very REASON it's a CLASSIC)

in the other you can generalize without reading and make the comment that it has no artistic value (because it's GLENN fucking BECK)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-03-26 10:39:54

#854

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6669|'Murka

Uzique wrote:
no. in one you can generalize without reading and make a comment that it has some artistic worth (that's the very REASON it's a CLASSIC)

in the other you can generalize without reading and make the comment that it has no artistic value (because it's GLENN fucking BECK)

No. You can't. That's the very definition of intellectual elitism/dishonesty.

In the first case, it's only a classic because someone deemed it so (subjective). In the latter, it's only categorized that way (by you) because you deem it so (again, subjective). I at least read Gatsby before I trashed it.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-03-26 10:46:51

#855

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5844

I remember reading the Media matters review of the the Glen Beck book a few months back and lolling.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201006110032
Yeah media matters left wing rah rah rah. It is pretty funny actually.

2011-03-26 10:48:45

#856

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6728

hahahaha

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-03-26 12:14:30

#857

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6669|'Murka

Macbeth wrote:
I remember reading the Media matters review of the the Glen Beck book a few months back and lolling.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201006110032
Yeah media matters left wing rah rah rah. It is pretty funny actually.

It is funny...but as worthwhile (as a book review) as one from hotair.com.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-03-26 12:35:19

#858

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6728

yeah but surely no book review from any source is worthy to you because all art is, like, subjective and stuff and that's just like, uh, your opinion, man

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-03-26 17:56:00

#859

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6669|'Murka

Not at all. But I don't treat them as gospel because I realize that all art is, after all, subjective. And thus their opinion is just that: their opinion. On something that is inherently subjective.

My point regarding those two blogs is that they are fraught with bias, making them even more subjective than others.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-03-26 20:36:34

#860

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6364|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
No. You can't. That's the very definition of intellectual elitism/dishonesty pretentious pseudery.

Fixed.

And thus their opinion is just that: their opinion. On something that is inherently subjective.

There's also the herd mentality to think about.

Ever read 'The Emperor's New Clothes'?
Its one of my favourites, Hans Christian Anderson and the Brothers Grimm were my preferred bedtime reading as a child.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-03-26 20:37:27)

Fuck Israel

2011-03-28 02:15:40

#861

Ultrafunkula: Hector: Ding, ding, ding, ding...; +1,975|6731|6 6 4 oh, I forget

Got another collection of H.P. Lovecraft under way. I like those short stories of his.

2011-03-28 03:51:29

#862

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6728

i love short stories... probably one of my favourite genres, especially modernist ones.

chekhov is just one of the most stunningly effective writers you'll ever come across. what he can do in 1/50th of the word count of anyone else... and also carver, for someone a little later and a little more towards the postmodern.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-03-28 04:30:18

#863

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6669|'Murka

Short stories take a special skill. Too often I read them and feel there is just too much left undone. You feel you've started in the middle of something, or you're left hanging, or the development just isn't there. To be able to do everything and wrap it up in such a short span...quite a feat.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-03-28 09:46:01

#864

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6728

the short story is an art form all to itself... really rather unique to the 20th century (or late 19th, at that). extremely experimental in terms of narrative and borne entirely out of the modernist project to 'make art new' again and to reclaim high-art from popular culture. i really love how a short story can obstinately lodge itself in your memory like a hard little stone... in a way that a full length novel or epic never could. there's such a 'density' of expression, technique and prose-poetry in it. often there's as much to find in a good short story as in, indeed, an entire novel. some of my favourite short story writers are joyce*, chekhov*, carver, poe, (henry) james, borges*, manfield, woolf/lawrence/wilde, saki/kipling/conrad

* track down some of their short-stories on the internet if you can, they are literally MUST READ. mindblowing literature.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-03-28 11:01:39

#865

Pochsy: Artifice of Eternity; +702|5801|Toronto

Flannery O'Conner's A Good Man is Hard to Find is still my favorite short stories collection. Joyce's Dubliners is a close second, though.

The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families

2011-03-28 13:51:09

#866

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5616|London, England

I'm Harrison Bergeron motherfuckers!

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-04-01 10:39:13

#867

presidentsheep: Back to the Fuhrer; +208|6219|Places 'n such

Reading the great gatsby at the moment, thinking it's pretty shitty at the moment.

*flamesuit*

I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.

2011-04-01 10:53:04

#868

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6728

is it 'cool' to hate the great gatsby now or something? seems to be a prevailing trend

i mean i've only read it once and that was 4 or so years ago... but i remember being impressed by it. quite a competent novel.

Last edited by Uzique (2011-04-01 10:53:58)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-04-01 10:58:05

#869

presidentsheep: Back to the Fuhrer; +208|6219|Places 'n such

Haha, just read back a page and noticed the hating. My only problem is that it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. i'm 30 pages in out of 100 and so far nothing's happened and I barely know anything about the characters. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing but the style also confuses me. Maybe i'm just being dense or something. I'll give it a chance though, it's only 100 pages after all

I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.

2011-04-01 11:03:54

#870

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6728

when reading a book of the modernist period, here are several majorly stupid fucking assumptions:

a) that there will be a plot
b) that there will be any real characterisation
c) that the style and tone will be easy to understand

books of the modern period are pretty much taking up an axe to grind against the 'novel' tradition as it sat in the realist 1800's mode

once you learn to be a better reader you learn that things like telos and teleology, and external character descriptions are utterly boring and pointless. i like a novel that revels in the abstract and denies easy understanding and orientation. if you want a plodding novel that will hold your hand all the way through, you've got 300 year's worth of them to get through. i recommend 'joseph andrews' and 'clarissa'.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-04-01 11:14:29

#871

presidentsheep: Back to the Fuhrer; +208|6219|Places 'n such

It's bedtime reading, I don't want plodding as much as I don't want abstract. Both can be equally boring.

I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.

2011-04-01 11:17:00

#872

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6728

so you're calling a classic book 'crappy' because you don't feel like engaging with it... because it's only bedtime reading to you?

ah, right, okay. im sure f. scott fitzgerald should learn to write better for that portion of his audience that only want mindless drivel to turn them off to sleep. your criticism is registered. maybe pick up a tom clancy next time instead of a modern classic? why do people really read classics if they don't want to engage with them as anything more than an entertaining flick-through? surely it's just mere pretention to read an 'acclaimed' book in that way? why not anything else you can pick-up from a best-seller's list at waterstones? it's a little bit of a head-scratcher when people that aren't prepared to take a serious book seriously complain about it being 'crappy'.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-04-01 11:24:00

#873

presidentsheep: Back to the Fuhrer; +208|6219|Places 'n such

Picked it up because I won an amazon giftcard and had £2 left on it when I'd finished buying physics textbooks, nothing more.

I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.

2011-04-01 11:29:05

#874

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6728

from an interview with my prof, FRS, FRSL

LV: Is the growing abyss between academic and non-academic criticism (merely a matter of audience, after all) a good thing? Should we feed students only dry jargon and keep for the stray reader the real charm of the critical discourse? Do you teach your students to comply with the arduous terminology (parroting words invented by gurus) in order to get a good grade? As a professor, do you grade the method/jargon or the personal reaction to both? When personal reaction comes without the method, how do you correct the approach? How much of the student’s enthusiasm for the work are you willing to sacrifice to the method? Is the method unaccompanied by feeling for the text satisfactory?

RH: My (limited) experience with non-academic adult readers of fiction is of an aggressive attachment (on their part) to a limited model of reading through identification which is assumed to be ‘natural’. Because this model of reading is assumed as ‘common sense’, there is no possibility of engagement or nuancing through other models and approaches, and very limited possibilities for dialogue.

my sentiments pretty much exactly on the topic. it annoys me when 'ordinary' readers discredit books because they're not convenient for them

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-04-01 11:34:21

#875

presidentsheep: Back to the Fuhrer; +208|6219|Places 'n such

I liked down and out in paris and london, and that seemed to have a similar sort of style. I don't know why, I just can't seem to get into this one. Like I said, I'm still going to give it a chance, it might turn out I like it?

I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.

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Dilbert_X wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

FEOS wrote:

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