ATG
Banned
+5,233|6526|Global Command
It is unlikely much will be done for mainstreet and the millions ( some experts say one in 26 will be foreclosed on ) of homeowners unable to pay their mortgage. From one perspective to do so would be massively unfair to those working three jobs to pay the mortgage or through their success own their homes outright.

The foreclosed generally are coming in three waves;

The Alt-A loans, which are the " ninja " loans used for those with nothing down, no documentation or citizenship. These were amoung the first to fail because these were the folks who could only count on rising home values to be able to allow them to refinance and afford the house.

The House Flippers, were juggling equity to refurbish and sell at a profit. It did not take much of a decline in property values to make these house worth less than the investment and many just walked. People had learned from the commercial real estate market that by forming a corporation they could buy and sell houses and shield themselves personally against potential losses. Property values decreased and these corporations folded.

The Subprime Losers, these I call losers because many of those people ( including me )just had shitty luck. In the last five years subprime was all you could get in some states, period. We got locked into high interest rates, and saw as much as a 50% decline in property values, making any hope of refinancing impossible.


Next will be the small business owners and their employees. Two years ago things were entirely different. People felt like they had solid careers.

After that comes the commercial property bust as many commercial sites sit empty and rentless.



And while all this is happening, the banks will sit quietly on the hundreds of billions in tax payer money they have received. When the bottom is reached, they will use this money to purchase struggling foreign banks. This is something the U.S. government can't do; purchase foreign banks. But if they give banks capital and they use that to purchase foreign assets ultimately the U.S. will see returns in light of the increased tax revenues, and if I remember correctly, the government now has partial equity in these banks.


THIS IS WHY THINGS ARE HAPPENING AS THEY ARE.

I don't know what WWW4 will be fought with, but WWW3 is being fought right now with mergers , commodities manipulation, ethanol and banking fraud.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6759

people took on stupid loans.  thats what ya get.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6755|Argentina

usmarine wrote:

people took on stupid loans.  thats what ya get.
Banks gave stupid loans.  That's what you get.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6759

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine wrote:

people took on stupid loans.  thats what ya get.
Banks gave stupid loans.  That's what you get.
people dont have to take what banks give them.  nobody is forced to buy a house.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6618|London, England
Stupid is as Stupid does
Bell
Frosties > Cornflakes
+362|6546|UK

I think it is much more to do with spendahappy government which is enabled by a monetary system that we fought to break away from in the revolutionary war.

The bailout money is being horded by banks, and I cant think why other than what ATG said.

No small wonder, if you have a system that requires credit, once you cut it off, the whole thing dies.  We activly discourage people from saving, because we would much rather cover the debts of people living beyond there means, than giving insentive's for people to save (which, as well as domestic manufacturing, etc, would actually increase the value of the currency.

We're screwed anyway, enjoy it, I know I did

Martyn
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6598|132 and Bush

"In the last five years subprime was all you could get in some states, period."
Really?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6546|San Diego, CA, USA
There's no shame in going bankrupt now-a-days.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6526|Global Command

Kmarion wrote:

"In the last five years subprime was all you could get in some states, period."
Really?
In some states, yes. The only loans being written were subprime loans, even for those who qualified for better.

My former sticky contained links about that. 25% of people receiving subprime loans would have qualified for something better had the loan reps wanted to bother.

These same souless dogs that were pushing people into these loans are now busy selling loan mods.

But somehow, it's all the publics fault.

reaganomics at work, tbh.

https://www.autospies.com/images/users/Agent009/soup%20line.jpg
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6598|132 and Bush

ATG wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

"In the last five years subprime was all you could get in some states, period."
Really?
In some states, yes. The only loans being written were subprime loans, even for those who qualified for better.
I've never heard that.. what states? Please show me where you got that information.

You deleted the sticky.. but I can still go back and look.

Edit: I found this link.
13: Percentage of outstanding mortgages accounted for by subprime loans.

20: Percentage of borrowers surveyed who face foreclosure due to predatory loan terms and multiple refinances.

1 in 5: Number of subprime borrowers in recent years who could have qualified for a lower-cost conventional loan. (No data cited)
Which in no way says only subprime loans were written in some states. It actually states most loans were not subprime.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6598|132 and Bush

ATG wrote:

It is unlikely much will be done for mainstreet and the millions ( some experts say one in 26 will be foreclosed on ) of homeowners unable to pay their mortgage. From one perspective to do so would be massively unfair to those working three jobs to pay the mortgage or through their success own their homes outright.

The foreclosed generally are coming in three waves;

The Alt-A loans, which are the " ninja " loans used for those with nothing down, no documentation or citizenship. These were amoung the first to fail because these were the folks who could only count on rising home values to be able to allow them to refinance and afford the house.
Enabled people to get loans who should have been denied.
The House Flippers, were juggling equity to refurbish and sell at a profit. It did not take much of a decline in property values to make these house worth less than the investment and many just walked. People had learned from the commercial real estate market that by forming a corporation they could buy and sell houses and shield themselves personally against potential losses. Property values decreased and these corporations folded.
House flippers often raised the value of the surrounding homes. They bought trash and raised the value by investing in renovations. They flushed the toilet that you called your neighbors house.
The Subprime Losers, these I call losers because many of those people ( including me )just had shitty luck. In the last five years subprime was all you could get in some states, period. We got locked into high interest rates, and saw as much as a 50% decline in property values, making any hope of refinancing impossible.


Next will be the small business owners and their employees. Two years ago things were entirely different. People felt like they had solid careers.

After that comes the commercial property bust as many commercial sites sit empty and rentless.
Luck? Lenders are compensated by the amount of risk they accept. Borrowers aren't locked into anything until they read the terms of their contract and sign it. You saw your property decline after so many nonpayers "walked away" from their responsibilities. They flooded the market with supply.

And while all this is happening, the banks will sit quietly on the hundreds of billions in tax payer money they have received. When the bottom is reached, they will use this money to purchase struggling foreign banks. This is something the U.S. government can't do; purchase foreign banks. But if they give banks capital and they use that to purchase foreign assets ultimately the U.S. will see returns in light of the increased tax revenues, and if I remember correctly, the government now has partial equity in these banks.
I am absolutely against this. It is rewarding the banks for investing in people who never intended on paying back their loans. That is not what banks should do.
THIS IS WHY THINGS ARE HAPPENING AS THEY ARE.

I don't know what WWW4 will be fought with, but WWW3 is being fought right now with mergers , commodities manipulation, ethanol and banking fraud.
WWII brought us the attempted extermination of an entire race. 95% of all mortgage holders still pay on time. Less than 2% are actually in foreclosure. If this is the next WW I welcome it.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6377|MN
I am sick and tired of people blaming everything but themselves for anything that goes wrong with something they have absolute control over if they choose to use it.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6759

LividBovine wrote:

I am sick and tired of people blaming everything but themselves for anything that goes wrong with something they have absolute control over if they choose to use it.
this
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6526|Global Command

Kmarion wrote:

95% of all mortgage holders still pay on time. Less than 2% are actually in foreclosure. If this is the next WW I welcome it.
I dunno where your looking at.   Perhaps we need to have state by state sub-forums.


best that we talk about this after its over perhaps as right now our opinions are in different hemispheres.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6526|Global Command

Kmarion wrote:

ATG wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

"In the last five years subprime was all you could get in some states, period."
Really?
In some states, yes. The only loans being written were subprime loans, even for those who qualified for better.
I've never heard that.. what states? Please show me where you got that information.

You deleted the sticky.. but I can still go back and look.

Edit: I found this link.
13: Percentage of outstanding mortgages accounted for by subprime loans.

20: Percentage of borrowers surveyed who face foreclosure due to predatory loan terms and multiple refinances.

1 in 5: Number of subprime borrowers in recent years who could have qualified for a lower-cost conventional loan. (No data cited)
Which in no way says only subprime loans were written in some states. It actually states most loans were not subprime.
Ah fuck, I'm not gonna make my head spin trying to find backup. You just don't like me gouging your sacred cow. Or did I mistake you for somebody who works in real estate, if I did, my apologies.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac engaged in "an orgy of junk mortgage development" that turned the two mortgage-finance giants into vast repositories of subprime and similarly risky loans, a former Fannie executive testified on Tuesday.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/10/ … fannie.php

fannie and freddie were government ran entities as much as they were private. You keep blaming guys like me, I'll keep an eye on my sawzall for when the time is right and I can start removing bankers heads from their bodies.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6759

ATG wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

95% of all mortgage holders still pay on time. Less than 2% are actually in foreclosure. If this is the next WW I welcome it.
I dunno where your looking at.   Perhaps we need to have state by state sub-forums.


best that we talk about this after its over perhaps as right now our opinions are in different hemispheres.
problem is you are blinded by the state you live in.  that over bloated housing market has been a fucking joke for many years.  why do you think like 7 of the 10 cities hardest hit were in Cali?  everyone knew the shit was WAY too expensive for some little shit house.  but so what, people moved there and bought homes because they wanted to live in lala land.  well, thats what ye get i guess.  cant say you had no idea either.  that dog dont hunt.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6598|132 and Bush

ATG wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

95% of all mortgage holders still pay on time. Less than 2% are actually in foreclosure. If this is the next WW I welcome it.
I dunno where your looking at.   Perhaps we need to have state by state sub-forums.


best that we talk about this after its over perhaps as right now our opinions are in different hemispheres.
It's not an opinion. Foreclosure are relatively low when compared to people who pay on time.
http://www.realtytrac.com/states/index.html
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6598|132 and Bush

ATG wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

ATG wrote:

In some states, yes. The only loans being written were subprime loans, even for those who qualified for better.
I've never heard that.. what states? Please show me where you got that information.

You deleted the sticky.. but I can still go back and look.

Edit: I found this link.
13: Percentage of outstanding mortgages accounted for by subprime loans.

20: Percentage of borrowers surveyed who face foreclosure due to predatory loan terms and multiple refinances.

1 in 5: Number of subprime borrowers in recent years who could have qualified for a lower-cost conventional loan. (No data cited)
Which in no way says only subprime loans were written in some states. It actually states most loans were not subprime.
Ah fuck, I'm not gonna make my head spin trying to find backup. You just don't like me gouging your sacred cow. Or did I mistake you for somebody who works in real estate, if I did, my apologies.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac engaged in "an orgy of junk mortgage development" that turned the two mortgage-finance giants into vast repositories of subprime and similarly risky loans, a former Fannie executive testified on Tuesday.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/10/ … fannie.php

fannie and freddie were government ran entities as much as they were private. You keep blaming guys like me, I'll keep an eye on my sawzall for when the time is right and I can start removing bankers heads from their bodies.
Funny man. I could make your head spin but you prefer inventing facts. You'll have to excuse me if I don't buy into the EVERYBODY is a victim mindset. My sacred cow has given me enough experience to call out your BS. Save your links, I live the real estate headlines everyday, and I see it from multiple angles.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6377|MN

ATG wrote:

fannie and freddie were government ran entities as much as they were private. You keep blaming guys like me, I'll keep an eye on my sawzall for when the time is right and I can start removing bankers heads from their bodies.
I blame people like you for a lot of things.  Right now I blame people like you for driving up the housing market and then flailing around saying it isn't your fault when the market crashes and you are left holding your own sack for comfort.  Man up and accept some responsibility for the situation you are in.  Be honest and admit that you over speculated a bit and didn't see this coming.

I am actually surprised that someone such as yourself, one that enjoys a bit of conspiracy theory, would not have seen this coming.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Superslim
BF2s Frat Brother
+211|6689|Calgary
Come on Guys, we all know that the market crash was a Government plot to get us all to join the Army.............
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6526|Global Command

LividBovine wrote:

ATG wrote:

fannie and freddie were government ran entities as much as they were private. You keep blaming guys like me, I'll keep an eye on my sawzall for when the time is right and I can start removing bankers heads from their bodies.
I blame people like you for a lot of things.  Right now I blame people like you for driving up the housing market and then flailing around saying it isn't your fault when the market crashes and you are left holding your own sack for comfort.  Man up and accept some responsibility for the situation you are in.  Be honest and admit that you over speculated a bit and didn't see this coming.

I am actually surprised that someone such as yourself, one that enjoys a bit of conspiracy theory, would not have seen this coming.
Fuck off.

“We hope to do to this industry what Wal-Mart did to theirs, Starbucks did to theirs, Costco did to theirs and Lowe’s-Home Depot did to their industry. And I think if we’ve done our job, five years from now you’re not going to call us a bank.”


Between 2001 and 2007, Mr. Killinger received compensation of $88 million, according to the Corporate Library, a research firm. He declined to respond to a list of questions, and his spokesman said he was unavailable for an interview.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/business/28wamu.html

tip of the motherfucking iceburg.


All these bankers and all of the politicians should hang. 


I want the loan writers picking strawberrys in shackles. I want the goldman-sachs of the world disemboweled. I want to see heaps of layoff slips in the real estate industry. Oh wait, that already happened.

Who are you people gonna blame when these people start losing their homes.

When you gonna fess up to your part in this disaster?

Last edited by ATG (2008-12-27 23:14:20)

LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6377|MN
Here is my part part in the problem:

When we bought our house 8 years ago my wife and I had a discussion about the property value and our equity.  We came to the conclusion that we should refinance in a couple years when we finished our remodel if the rates were low enough. 

Well 5 years later when the rates were low for quite a while and we thought they had bottomed out, we refinanced.  Our home's value had increased by over 40% to that point. 

So what did we do?  We cashed out on 12.5% of the value, and I thought we were taking a risk seeing how the housing market had been so strong for so long.  We were talking again about housing values and thought the housing market would colapse if things kept going the way they were.  Yes this is a true story.  Good thing we planned on living in our home for a long time and I work for a food plant.

EDIT:  To clarify, we have much more equity now than when we bought the place.  We moved in with 60k in equity.

Yes we cut back on our spending this year for Christmas as well.  Check out your thread on giving to see why.  You are right I should spend my money on meaningless things.

The problem is not a single sided thing.  Of course the banks were loaning more agressively.  The goverment told them it would be ok, "we got your back".  There are always people out there trying to get your money.  Just don't hand it to them blindly and think they have your best interest at heart.  A bank is in business to make money, not to make sure you have an affordable house.  YOU are responsable for making sure what you are doing makes sense.

Last edited by LividBovine (2008-12-27 23:58:18)

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6546|San Diego, CA, USA
Ever heard of the phrase, "Buyer beware"?

Anyone realize that the banking de-regulation really started to go downhill with the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act

That allowed banks to merge with insurance groups and security firms and start this downward spiral we have now.  As early as 2003 Greenspan warned congress that these changes were hurtful to the economy and that they should do something about it. 

However, even with the Republican's the majority in congress at the time they could never get the 'fix' out of committee.  The same committee chairs who are now senior ranking members in the current administration are there fucking it up.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6598|132 and Bush

Harmor wrote:

Ever heard of the phrase, "Buyer beware"?
Caveat emptor is why Realtors must be licensed and adhere to a code of ethics. There certainly are some sketchy ones, but they are the first ones to quit.

ATG wrote:

When you gonna fess up to your part in this disaster?
And what exactly do you think my part is? I'm a Realtor who is STILL helping to put people in homes. Why is that? 99% of my industry is based on referrals and repeat business.

Rain Gutters wrote:

I want to see heaps of layoff slips in the real estate industry. Oh wait, that already happened.
Well save me a spot in the soup line.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
The#1Spot
Member
+105|6537|byah

usmarine wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine wrote:

people took on stupid loans.  thats what ya get.
Banks gave stupid loans.  That's what you get.
people dont have to take what banks give them.  nobody is forced to buy a house.
Even though its the peoples sole responsibility to do their payments on time its still partially the banks fault for allowing it to be approved in the first place. Then again now there are a lot of repo cars and homes for a fraction of what its worth for the responsible people to snatch up. I am looking forward to next year for an auto purchase.

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