The Israeli soliders were killed by friendly fire when a tank fired on their position.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? … 2FShowFull
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? … 2FShowFull
So?mafia996630 wrote:
Casualty figures
550 Palestinians have been killed in Operation Cast Lead
100 of the dead are children
2,500 Palestinians have been wounded
4 Israeli civilians have been killed since the operation began, and four Israeli soldiers. Seventy-seven soldiers have been injured
Source:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 454204.ece
Still waiting for an answewr to my previous question
Oh there you are!!.......I thought you were off trying to find out when Israel broke any treaty's unprovoked. Having a hard time with it?TheAussieReaper wrote:
The Israeli soliders were killed by friendly fire when a tank fired on their position.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? … 2FShowFull
How can they bulldoze it if it was shot first? Anyway, when has Isarel offered a real peace deal? Stop the olive branch thing, the only olive branches there are in the region are those in olive trees in Gaza Israel uproots with a bulldozer.lowing wrote:
Only after the olive branch was shot from Israel's hand.sergeriver wrote:
The same olive branches they then bulldoze?lowing wrote:
Sorry, it does not, Israel has constantly offered olive branches and made concessions that did nothing to stop the attacks from the terrorists. The terrorists have never made good on any peace initiatives. SO no, that does not make sense.
If you have any idea about what's happening there lowing, you'd know each attack is just a retaliation for another attack and has been for decades.lowing wrote:
Oh there you are!!.......I thought you were off trying to find out when Israel broke any treaty's unprovoked. Having a hard time with it?TheAussieReaper wrote:
The Israeli soliders were killed by friendly fire when a tank fired on their position.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? … 2FShowFull
Everyone wanted Israel out of Gaza, they left and all that was gained was more territory to fire rockets into Israelsergeriver wrote:
How can they bulldoze it if it was shot first? Anyway, when has Isarel offered a real peace deal? Stop the olive branch thing, the only olive branches there are in the region are those in olive trees in Gaza Israel uproots with a bulldozer.lowing wrote:
Only after the olive branch was shot from Israel's hand.sergeriver wrote:
The same olive branches they then bulldoze?
Sooooooooo, you can't or won't answer the question?TheAussieReaper wrote:
If you have any idea about what's happening there lowing, you'd know each attack is just a retaliation for another attack and has been for decades.lowing wrote:
Oh there you are!!.......I thought you were off trying to find out when Israel broke any treaty's unprovoked. Having a hard time with it?TheAussieReaper wrote:
The Israeli soliders were killed by friendly fire when a tank fired on their position.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? … 2FShowFull
Israel has IN FACT taken steps toward peace and negotion. THe problem is, no one wants anything less than a complete destruction of Israel. THAT ain't gunna happen
Are you serious? They left, but took territory. Notice the wall that snakes through Palestinian villages? Guess where that is?lowing wrote:
Everyone wanted Israel out of Gaza, they left and all that was gained was more territory to fire rockets into Israel
Unless you missed that little construction work.
Guess that's justification to not accept anything less than a complete destruction of Palestine.lowing wrote:
Israel has IN FACT taken steps toward peace and negotion. THe problem is, no one wants anything less than a complete destruction of Israel. THAT ain't gunna happen
If Israel were serious about peace they'd be seeking a deal NOW. But they aren't. The civilian toll is going to rise while Israel plays wiped out Hamas in the Gaza streets.
wtf? I am updating the thread with new news stories, don't like it piss off.lowing wrote:
So?mafia996630 wrote:
Casualty figures
550 Palestinians have been killed in Operation Cast Lead
100 of the dead are children
2,500 Palestinians have been wounded
4 Israeli civilians have been killed since the operation began, and four Israeli soldiers. Seventy-seven soldiers have been injured
Source:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 454204.ece
Still waiting for an answewr to my previous question
What question ?
Any guesses as to what would happen if the security wll was not there? How many guesses are ya gunna need?TheAussieReaper wrote:
Are you serious? They left, but took territory. Notice the wall that snakes through Palestinian villages? Guess where that is?lowing wrote:
Everyone wanted Israel out of Gaza, they left and all that was gained was more territory to fire rockets into Israel
http://www.shahnon.com/uploaded_images/ … 744583.jpg
Unless you missed that little construction work.Guess that's justification to not accept anything less than a complete destruction of Palestine.lowing wrote:
Israel has IN FACT taken steps toward peace and negotion. THe problem is, no one wants anything less than a complete destruction of Israel. THAT ain't gunna happen
If Israel were serious about peace they'd be seeking a deal NOW. But they aren't. The civilian toll is going to rise while Israel plays wiped out Hamas in the Gaza streets.
Yer kidding right? YOu are blaming Israel for not seeking peace NOW? Yeah I guess the last 2000 rockets just made them give up on peace.
Are you ever going to answer the question I asked you or are you going to redirect the discussion?
Last edited by lowing (2009-01-06 06:09:51)
You did not answer my question Lowing.lowing wrote:
Any guesses as to what would happen if the security wll was not there? How many guesses are ya gunna need?TheAussieReaper wrote:
Are you serious? They left, but took territory. Notice the wall that snakes through Palestinian villages? Guess where that is?lowing wrote:
Everyone wanted Israel out of Gaza, they left and all that was gained was more territory to fire rockets into Israel
http://www.shahnon.com/uploaded_images/ … 744583.jpg
Unless you missed that little construction work.Guess that's justification to not accept anything less than a complete destruction of Palestine.lowing wrote:
Israel has IN FACT taken steps toward peace and negotion. THe problem is, no one wants anything less than a complete destruction of Israel. THAT ain't gunna happen
If Israel were serious about peace they'd be seeking a deal NOW. But they aren't. The civilian toll is going to rise while Israel plays wiped out Hamas in the Gaza streets.
Yer kidding right? YOu are blaming Israel for not seeking peace NOW? Yeah I guess the last 2000 rockets just made them give up on peace.
Are you ever going to answer the question I asked you or are you going to redirect the discussion?
What would you do if the world gave your land to a foreign people?
a- Shut up and leave?
b- Stay and resist?
Yes, we used WP in Fallujah.Dilbert_X wrote:
Like I said, your govt has already admitted WP was used as an anti-personnel weapon in Fallujah, which is unlawful.
No, it is not 'unlawful' under any treaty that the US is bound by. (see my previous post here).
And, out of a sense of proportionality of response (aka ROE to the grunts), we don't go for the 'extra crispy' right off the bat. There are a ton of considerations and requirements to meet before US artillery gets to use WP.
Outside of Fallujah, you're going to have a hard time digging up many other instances of US use of WP since Viet Nam.
Shot into Gaza, yes.Dilbert_X wrote:
As its obviously being shot directly into gaza over a densely packed civilian area what other purpose is there?
Densely packed civilian area, not necessarily.
Could be abandoned, could be a paramilitary site, could be a hamas rocket site, could be a strategic road intersection, could be many things.
Smoke can be used for more than target marking, or masking movement of friendly troops.Dilbert_X wrote:
We have pictures of multiple rounds in the same area, so its not target marking.
Its hard to believe the Israelis need to use smoke to mask their movement.
Can be used to let the other side know "we have our artillery pointed right where you are.. you may want to abandon that position" without using lethal rounds.
Can be used to sow confusion in enemy ranks with a literal "fog of war"
Can be used as a non-lethal supressive fire. Fog in the low level troops and their world suddenly shrinks to the 5 foot radius around them.
Can be used to slow enemy troops, hamper command & control, and cause enemy formations to get lost & separated
And, if they were using smoke for target marking - why wouldn't they use multiple smoke to mark multiple targets?
Since non-lethal rubber bullets don't really work for artillery in the same way they work for infantry/police - smoke rounds can be used as the artillery equivalent of said 'rubber bullets'.
Well it's pretty obvious what people would do, how they would do it is a different manner. Would they go about aiming at civilian populations or would they go about aiming at military/state/police organisations. I'd say most decent people would go for the latter.AutralianChainsaw wrote:
You did not answer my question Lowing.lowing wrote:
Any guesses as to what would happen if the security wll was not there? How many guesses are ya gunna need?TheAussieReaper wrote:
Are you serious? They left, but took territory. Notice the wall that snakes through Palestinian villages? Guess where that is?
http://www.shahnon.com/uploaded_images/ … 744583.jpg
Unless you missed that little construction work.
Guess that's justification to not accept anything less than a complete destruction of Palestine.
If Israel were serious about peace they'd be seeking a deal NOW. But they aren't. The civilian toll is going to rise while Israel plays wiped out Hamas in the Gaza streets.
Yer kidding right? YOu are blaming Israel for not seeking peace NOW? Yeah I guess the last 2000 rockets just made them give up on peace.
Are you ever going to answer the question I asked you or are you going to redirect the discussion?
What would you do if the world gave your land to a foreign people?
a- Shut up and leave?
b- Stay and resist?
Also now look at it from the point of Israel. What would you do if you were Israel?
Look at it from both sides, and suddenly the violence doesn't seem so pointless. As they both have somewhat justifiable claims, I guess.
Now naturally most people root for the underdogs which would be Palestine in this case, but the way they go about their "resistance" movement is pretty lame, so they ain't getting no support from me, besides they're more or less just a bunch of crazy muslims
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-01-06 06:36:05)
I'm not 100% sure, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that flechettes were illegal under multiple treaties/international laws...at least as anti-personnel weapons.rdx-fx wrote:
The first video in my above post would look very similar to what you're describing. At least in what the effects on target would look like to an observer.Kmarion wrote:
Any pictures of the shells I am talking about?
sparse, dark gray airburst "poof" with a roughly spherical shape, then sparse dark gray cone of lines streaking down from that burst, then an imperial assload of dust and dirt being kicked up very much like someone shot a giant shotgun into the dirt.
I'm not familiar with any flechette carrying artillery round, though.
Here's a shot of a WP arty round
Looks pretty familiar, no?
As for pics of the mine-clearing rounds you referenced, I'm not sure those things are even fielded. Would think there would be more info out there if they were.
Last edited by FEOS (2009-01-06 06:58:37)
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
You missed "C" and a few other options...AutralianChainsaw wrote:
You did not answer my question Lowing.lowing wrote:
Any guesses as to what would happen if the security wll was not there? How many guesses are ya gunna need?TheAussieReaper wrote:
Are you serious? They left, but took territory. Notice the wall that snakes through Palestinian villages? Guess where that is?lowing wrote:
Everyone wanted Israel out of Gaza, they left and all that was gained was more territory to fire rockets into Israel
http://www.shahnon.com/uploaded_images/ … 744583.jpg
Unless you missed that little construction work.
Guess that's justification to not accept anything less than a complete destruction of Palestine.
If Israel were serious about peace they'd be seeking a deal NOW. But they aren't. The civilian toll is going to rise while Israel plays wiped out Hamas in the Gaza streets.
Yer kidding right? YOu are blaming Israel for not seeking peace NOW? Yeah I guess the last 2000 rockets just made them give up on peace.
Are you ever going to answer the question I asked you or are you going to redirect the discussion?
What would you do if the world gave your land to a foreign people?
a- Shut up and leave?
b- Stay and resist?
Enlighten us with c and the other options.Pug wrote:
You missed "C" and a few other options...AutralianChainsaw wrote:
You did not answer my question Lowing.lowing wrote:
Any guesses as to what would happen if the security wll was not there? How many guesses are ya gunna need?
Yer kidding right? YOu are blaming Israel for not seeking peace NOW? Yeah I guess the last 2000 rockets just made them give up on peace.
Are you ever going to answer the question I asked you or are you going to redirect the discussion?
What would you do if the world gave your land to a foreign people?
a- Shut up and leave?
b- Stay and resist?
Oh i guess "C" would be: stay and live peacefully like a 2nd class citizen in your own country?Pug wrote:
You missed "C" and a few other options...AutralianChainsaw wrote:
You did not answer my question Lowing.lowing wrote:
Any guesses as to what would happen if the security wll was not there? How many guesses are ya gunna need?
Yer kidding right? YOu are blaming Israel for not seeking peace NOW? Yeah I guess the last 2000 rockets just made them give up on peace.
Are you ever going to answer the question I asked you or are you going to redirect the discussion?
What would you do if the world gave your land to a foreign people?
a- Shut up and leave?
b- Stay and resist?
Because we all know that even if the pals stop the resistance, they will be integrated in the new Israel or will be able to live in their new country without having to go tru checkpoints.
We all saw what it is to make peace with Israel.. look in the peaceful West Bank.. There no more illegal settlements right?
You really have no clue about what's has happened the last 60 years. Have you heard the word "settlements" and that they are only for JEWS. Every year more Palestinians get thrown out of their house to make place for new houses for jews.AutralianChainsaw wrote:
Oh i guess "C" would be: stay and live peacefully like a 2nd class citizen in your own country?Pug wrote:
You missed "C" and a few other options...AutralianChainsaw wrote:
You did not answer my question Lowing.
What would you do if the world gave your land to a foreign people?
a- Shut up and leave?
b- Stay and resist?
Because we all know that even if the pals stop the resistance, they will be integrated in the new Israel or will be able to live in their new country without having to go tru checkpoints.
We all saw what it is to make peace with Israel.. look in the peaceful West Bank.. There no more illegal settlements right?
And why should they live like second class citizens when no human would. For you even to mentions this makes think that you accept racism and other issues which makes other people fell like second class .
I'm bad at sarcasm.. If there's a supporter of the Palestinian cause, it is me.bogo24dk wrote:
You really have no clue about what's has happened the last 60 years. Have you heard the word "settlements" and that they are only for JEWS. Every year more Palestinians get thrown out of their house to make place for new houses for jews.AutralianChainsaw wrote:
Oh i guess "C" would be: stay and live peacefully like a 2nd class citizen in your own country?Pug wrote:
You missed "C" and a few other options...
Because we all know that even if the pals stop the resistance, they will be integrated in the new Israel or will be able to live in their new country without having to go tru checkpoints.
We all saw what it is to make peace with Israel.. look in the peaceful West Bank.. There no more illegal settlements right?
And why should they live like second class citizens when no human would. For you even to mentions this makes think that you accept racism and other issues which makes other people fell like second class .
If i was making the rules, i would relocate Israel in the United States or Germany and give back all stolen properties to their true owners.. the Palestinian People.
hmm yeah kicking out the israelis is a good solution, mhm.AutralianChainsaw wrote:
You did not answer my question Lowing.lowing wrote:
Any guesses as to what would happen if the security wll was not there? How many guesses are ya gunna need?TheAussieReaper wrote:
Are you serious? They left, but took territory. Notice the wall that snakes through Palestinian villages? Guess where that is?lowing wrote:
Everyone wanted Israel out of Gaza, they left and all that was gained was more territory to fire rockets into Israel
http://www.shahnon.com/uploaded_images/ … 744583.jpg
Unless you missed that little construction work.
Guess that's justification to not accept anything less than a complete destruction of Palestine.
If Israel were serious about peace they'd be seeking a deal NOW. But they aren't. The civilian toll is going to rise while Israel plays wiped out Hamas in the Gaza streets.
Yer kidding right? YOu are blaming Israel for not seeking peace NOW? Yeah I guess the last 2000 rockets just made them give up on peace.
Are you ever going to answer the question I asked you or are you going to redirect the discussion?
What would you do if the world gave your land to a foreign people?
a- Shut up and leave?
b- Stay and resist?
I don't think many palestinians have any interest in staying and resisting, only hamas does.
inane little opines
And I think we should give all of Germany its land back too.AutralianChainsaw wrote:
If i was making the rules, i would relocate Israel in the United States or Germany and give back all stolen properties to their true owners.. the Palestinian People.
and Russia.kylef wrote:
And I think we should give all of Germany its land back too.AutralianChainsaw wrote:
If i was making the rules, i would relocate Israel in the United States or Germany and give back all stolen properties to their true owners.. the Palestinian People.
inane little opines
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beehive_(ammunition)FEOS wrote:
I'm not 100% sure, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that flechettes were illegal under multiple treaties/international laws...at least as anti-personnel weapons.rdx-fx wrote:
The first video in my above post would look very similar to what you're describing. At least in what the effects on target would look like to an observer.Kmarion wrote:
Any pictures of the shells I am talking about?
sparse, dark gray airburst "poof" with a roughly spherical shape, then sparse dark gray cone of lines streaking down from that burst, then an imperial assload of dust and dirt being kicked up very much like someone shot a giant shotgun into the dirt.
I'm not familiar with any flechette carrying artillery round, though.
Here's a shot of a WP arty round
http://static.flickr.com/32/64091305_3f45c1bc35.jpg
Looks pretty familiar, no?
As for pics of the mine-clearing rounds you referenced, I'm not sure those things are even fielded. Would think there would be more info out there if they were.
Here you guys go. They are still used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M58_Mine_C … ine_Charge
Not an arty round but damn close.
Oh and it is illegal to use any weapon on civilians, so I guess what hamas is doing is illegal too.
CEASEFIRE GOD DAMMIT!AutralianChainsaw wrote:
I'm bad at sarcasm.. If there's a supporter of the Palestinian cause, it is me.bogo24dk wrote:
You really have no clue about what's has happened the last 60 years. Have you heard the word "settlements" and that they are only for JEWS. Every year more Palestinians get thrown out of their house to make place for new houses for jews.AutralianChainsaw wrote:
Oh i guess "C" would be: stay and live peacefully like a 2nd class citizen in your own country?
Because we all know that even if the pals stop the resistance, they will be integrated in the new Israel or will be able to live in their new country without having to go tru checkpoints.
We all saw what it is to make peace with Israel.. look in the peaceful West Bank.. There no more illegal settlements right?
And why should they live like second class citizens when no human would. For you even to mentions this makes think that you accept racism and other issues which makes other people fell like second class .
If i was making the rules, i would relocate Israel in the United States or Germany and give back all stolen properties to their true owners.. the Palestinian People.
Edit: also bogo sarcasm meter is a bit faulty!
Last edited by mafia996630 (2009-01-06 08:17:19)
To be honest the only two I can think of is to fight or leave. Only those two options. Yup. The only two.bogo24dk wrote:
Enlighten us with c and the other options.Pug wrote:
You missed "C" and a few other options...AutralianChainsaw wrote:
You did not answer my question Lowing.
What would you do if the world gave your land to a foreign people?
a- Shut up and leave?
b- Stay and resist?
Or I could be lying.