BF2S Forums T-72 and T-80 tank is superior to the M1A2 in many things...

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

I am almost certain tanks abrahms arent fitted with reactive armor, which is what you are describing.  I am only saying this because the M2 series bradley (which is not a tank) does get fitted with this armor.  Oh yeah and that reactive armor shit, 9 times out of 10 is worthless.  Dont believe all the war stories you hear

The M1 uses its Chobham armor to defeat HEAT rounds.  Better than reactive armor, which is only good for one shot.

Ive always got confused with the difference between cherry juice and apple juice

elite wrote:

omg u all go for tanks from your own country, im from uk, challenger 2 is made in leeds, but i seen plenty of documentories and the challenger 2 is the best, followed by m1a2 abrams and leopard tank...

For some odd reason you strike me as an 8yr old trying to say somethings the best of all just because his "daddy" has one or something, while not showing any technological documentation to back up your ongoing confidance in this british tank you're jabbering about.


So in conclusion, same applies for most of the people posting in this topic.

"Without data, you're just an opinion"

Last edited by Drunken_Tankdriver (2006-03-03 22:56:05)

Any real tankers here? Im only in army corps of engineers but here's my two cents. First depending on which model of the Abrams the T-72 would have a very slight individual advantages.
A Break down.

Fire power Advantage Abrams
The original M1 had the british L7 (only 105mm) cannon, this is smaller than the T-72's 125mm cannon. The L7, though smaller, is a superb weapon and like almost all british cannons since world war two used very advanced shell technology to increase the effectiveness of the weapon, many of the m1s in desert storm were so equipped and could tackle the T-72 on relatively equal terms. The M1A1 finally rectified the gap by introducing the german 120mm smoothbore gun used in the leo 2 which proved a devestating weapon, even the sand berms could not protect the the t72 and there were recorded incidents of one 120 mm shell piercing two t72s through, conversely the 125mm of the t72 failed to penetrate the frontal armor of the m1 at even 500m. The projectiles of the M1A1 and later models began to incorperate depleted uranium into the rounds which enhance the penetrating power of the shells. Despite being a smoothbore the 120mm cannon has proved very accurate and the upgrade easy to accomplish as expansion was anticipated in the design. The new russian designs have spread rumors of a larger caliber gun of up to 140 mm.

Protection advantage Abrams
The original m1 used the british breakthrough chobham armor which is of a rolled steel/  ceramic/ spaced/ laminated design. The reason why there has been no ERA armor for the abrams is because it doesn't need any and the armor proved sufficient against KE/LRP shells and CHE shells. HEAT and HESH for example doesn't really destroy by penetration alone but by shaking a chunk of armor called "spall" from the inside of the tank. It has proved extremely successful protecting the crew from these effects. The reason u see ERA on the t72 is because the laminated armor has proven insufficient to defend against the modern combat environment and against infantry weapons which don't rely on velocity. The new T80/90 Series does have improvements in armor protection but have not attempted the same combination as the west and it is no where near as good as the M1A2. the new standard not only uses chobham but a depleted uranium mesh to add a further layer of protection. This grants a very high level of protection, but does not give the abrams the best armor DESIGN in the world as it is not modular and cannot be easily changed as in the french leclerc or the british challenger 2 as new developments occur but it does guarantee a firm place for it for years to come.

Support systems advantage Abrams.
The advatage has been close so far but now widens. The abrams has from the beginning had a fully stabilized system for the cannon,  gunner, driver and the commander stations. The t72s is not as effective according to defense department analysis and did not provide reliably smooth layings for the gunner, in fact the level of the lack of good quality electronics suite until the t90 was surprising. The targeting system of the M1A2 doesn't only rely on laser sights but a series of passive night, infared and navigational systems. The commander has an independent themal viewer and may designate target priority as the guner deals with them which will automatically be layed into the weapon and can also be relayed into the the higher network capacity of the abrams commo systems. These have given the abrams an effective battle range of well over that of the t72 and 90 series which would be blind or unable to process the propertagerting coordinates, let alone fire while on the move. Instead of cermaic armor the russians have tried in the t90s advanced techniques to scramble laser guided missles and radar alert systems to detect projectiles with mixed results so far. This doesn't mean the abrams doesn't have disadvantages the turbine engine though powerful and reliable so far is very fuel thirsty and leaves a noticable IR signature. it also doesn't have an autoloader or "silent watch" an APU to let it run systems without running the main engine.

Last edited by Endsoldat (2006-03-03 23:46:05)

I jjust remember waiting in line after patrols and hating it when tankers get there first cus they gotta fill like 3 seperate tanks and it will honestly take half an hour.  Bradley on the other hand regular old diesel engine 10 min to refuel

erm challenger 2 is da best of da best, n im 17 years old my old friend

Drunken_Tankdriver wrote:

Ok, as young as you are, how are you able to form that strong of an opinion on a tank? You're barely old enough to drive a car.

I agree.  At least have something to base your opinion on.  Actual experience is prefferred.  That being said, Challenger 2 is a hell of a tank, with a gun that just won't quit.  IT may or may not be the best, but it is definately AMONG the best.

My thoughts on who are among the best?  Without trying to claim who is the end all beat all?
M1 series Abrahms
Leopard 2 series
Challenger 2
Merkava
AMX 30 (yes, a FRENCH tank)
T 90

Or they just read the first post and thought 'that'll be ok for an opinion'

how to spell

BEE_Grim_Reaper wrote:

(Bringing an Air-Superiority Fighter into a ground attack would be nearly as stupid as bringing a knife to a gunfight)

What if, in my case in BF2, most times you come out of that fight alive with a knife in your hand?

Gunslinger, I second that.

Longbow wrote:

NB-CO-DELTA-COMMAND , how old are you ? Maybe 10-12 years , older man won't write such stupid post . Thinking that everything american is the best is stupid . Vietnam showed us how good is america's army . They cannot even defeat a small country such as Vietnam .. your ground forces suck , the only thing you role is your navy and somekind your jets , because a good pilot's skills and a lot of practice .

ROFL...we need to start breaking fingers here so people wont type such nonsense

errrm, Longbow? we lost vietnam? i dont think so. we won the battles, buddy. Anti war hippies protesting in front of the white house and non existent public support was what pulled our troops out of the conflict. and size of a country doesnt matter. A country of any size can have nuclear weapons which will decimate countries of any size. You come from fucking Ukraine. i cant seem to recall any major war victories won by the sole army/navy of ukraine. it wasnt USA & s.vietnam vs. north vietnam, it was USA/UN (and affiliated countries)/s.vietnam vs n.vietnam/loas/cambodia/russia (via arms and munitions/... Politics lost that war buddy, not our (USA) armed forces. besides, the war wasnt fought for the US, it was fought for US interests. It was Vietnams war, so saying the USA lost it is incorrect. technically south vietnam lost it, as the war ended after the US had already pulled out. do some research before you insult something you know nothing about.

PS love your mature threats on an online forum..shows real age