He changed the world, someone's got to hate him.Turquoise wrote:
I would doubt he's seen so positively by the Irish.Uzique wrote:
Yes but he's actually seen as quite the reformer and a decent chappy, by and large... depending on your political stance and class...Turquoise wrote:
Isn't Cromwell the same guy who basically murdered a bunch of Irish people?
His reformation and Interregnum rule can be criticized in the same way the Founding Fathers and their establishment of the USA can be criticized- some people had to die somewhere!
Didn't this kid attack a police patrol with firebombs?
noo...dont believe that crap people who have no clue are saying...the kid was shot down before the whole mess startedmikkel wrote:
Didn't this kid attack a police patrol with firebombs?
Knowing the crowd he supposedly belonged to, I'm not terribly inclined to believe their side of the story outright.Delusion wrote:
noo...dont believe that crap people who have no clue are saying...the kid was shot down before the whole mess startedmikkel wrote:
Didn't this kid attack a police patrol with firebombs?
I'll take the word of men over pigs any day.
ƒ³
Idiots are everywhere. Not just in police departments. If you start disliking and distrusting law enforcement as a rule, then corruption within it turns from being outrageous to being expected, and that's more damaging to society than any corrupt officer.oug wrote:
I'll take the word of men over pigs any day.
Last edited by mikkel (2008-12-12 12:48:09)
lol...wow.oug wrote:
I'll take the word of men over pigs any day.
and gj. 7 days and still acting like idiots.
My first input into this argument.
I think people have the right to express their anger/hatred for something like this. But they need to channel the aggression in the correct manner. You can't just go kick off a riot just 'cause of what happened to a kid.
No disrespect to oug in any way, shape, or form here, but did you see people rioting when De Menezes was killed in London? People didn't riot, and cause pandemonium on the streets. Maybe it's just the way that the societies are.
I think people have the right to express their anger/hatred for something like this. But they need to channel the aggression in the correct manner. You can't just go kick off a riot just 'cause of what happened to a kid.
No disrespect to oug in any way, shape, or form here, but did you see people rioting when De Menezes was killed in London? People didn't riot, and cause pandemonium on the streets. Maybe it's just the way that the societies are.
It's hitting the news because believe it or not Greek is a unstable political bomb at the moment. The amount of violent rioting that take place simply shows the problems the government are facing which were covered up before because of their economic growth...
...
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and that's the problem...is Greece really that "libral" at the moment?European libral shit again
Last edited by ..teddy..jimmy (2008-12-12 15:49:24)
...and that just shows how much you know of what's going on over there. It's been a ticking bomb over just waiting to explode.SirSchloppy wrote:
I think people have the right to express their anger/hatred for something like this. But they need to channel the aggression in the correct manner. You can't just go kick off a riot just 'cause of what happened to a kid.
Riots are occasionally quite positive as they send a royal kick up governmental asses that should initiate somekind of change. If not they're simply idiots.
Last edited by ..teddy..jimmy (2008-12-12 15:46:18)
I guess protesting never achieved anything in your book eh. Haymarket square mean anything? Bloody Sunday? Guess not.usmarine wrote:
and gj. 7 days and still acting like idiots.
Glad I made it to your exclusive list btw. First you make your comment and then pretend to ignore the answer. Well, I guess that's a good strategy when you lack arguments. If nothing else it's a sign of maturity and wisdom.
ƒ³
Couldn't agree more. But when the mob is angered, some bad things are bound to happen along with the good. It's just the way things are.SirSchloppy wrote:
My first input into this argument.
I think people have the right to express their anger/hatred for something like this. But they need to channel the aggression in the correct manner. You can't just go kick off a riot just 'cause of what happened to a kid.
No disrespect to oug in any way, shape, or form here, but did you see people rioting when De Menezes was killed in London? People didn't riot, and cause pandemonium on the streets. Maybe it's just the way that the societies are.
As for the De Menezes incident, no disrespect either mate, but maybe there should be a bit of rioting there as well. Just to make a point that mindless decisions like that will not be tolerated.
For the record though, I must note that there have been similar incidents in the past, which were not followed by riots etc. This time it just so happened that this shooting was the cherry on the cake for the government's fuck ups. This goes way deeper than it seems at first. Yet allow me to disagree with teddy about the ticking bomb thing... Sadly imo we're too used to useless and corrupt politicians to actually do anything about it. By the time the elections come it will just be the usual two party race that has led us here to begin with.
ƒ³
Indeed... look at how rampant corruption is the norm for Illinois politicians. People just expect their governors to be assholes.mikkel wrote:
Idiots are everywhere. Not just in police departments. If you start disliking and distrusting law enforcement as a rule, then corruption within it turns from being outrageous to being expected, and that's more damaging to society than any corrupt officer.oug wrote:
I'll take the word of men over pigs any day.
True... but I don't think he changed it for the better.jord wrote:
He changed the world, someone's got to hate him.Turquoise wrote:
I would doubt he's seen so positively by the Irish.Uzique wrote:
Yes but he's actually seen as quite the reformer and a decent chappy, by and large... depending on your political stance and class...
His reformation and Interregnum rule can be criticized in the same way the Founding Fathers and their establishment of the USA can be criticized- some people had to die somewhere!
He was a normal farmer that rose to become commander of the military and lord Protector of England. Overthrowing one of the strongest thrones in the world. I woulda thought all you Americans would have loved a drama like that...Turquoise wrote:
True... but I don't think he changed it for the better.jord wrote:
He changed the world, someone's got to hate him.Turquoise wrote:
I would doubt he's seen so positively by the Irish.
It depends where you come from, if you're Irish you probably hate him. If you're an American with a tiny but of Irish blood and insistent on getting into every Irish debate like it was your own background, and believe me I've met many in this category, then you hate him.
elected one of the top Britons of all time, so obviously someone, somewhere will hate such a loved person by his own people. It's natural. Which important figure isn't hated by someone? Hell I bet thousands hate Gandhi...Cromwell has been a very controversial figure in the history of the British Isles – a regicidal dictator to some historians (such as David Hume and Christopher Hill) and a hero of liberty to others (such as Thomas Carlyle and Samuel Rawson Gardiner). In Britain he was elected as one of the Top 10 Britons of all time in a 2002 BBC poll.[1] His measures against Irish Catholics have been characterized by some historians as genocidal or near-genocidal,[2] and in Ireland itself he is widely hated.
Thats not how we do it TBH, must be the mediterranean water or something.Oug wrote:
As for the De Menezes incident, no disrespect either mate, but maybe there should be a bit of rioting there as well. Just to make a point that mindless decisions like that will not be tolerated.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
organized resistence > rioting
Rioting = "I'm so mad that I could just loot and vandalize shit!"
Rioting = "I'm so mad that I could just loot and vandalize shit!"
The police would consider this organized resistance though. It just takes a few text messages and you have people turn up to riot over a boys death en masse.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
organized resistence > rioting
Rioting = "I'm so mad that I could just loot and vandalize shit!"
Yup, because there is nothing like protesting violence by engaging in a good old fashion riot. Typical liberal hypocrisyUzique wrote:
Pretty sure it's a troll.
Either that or this guy is seriously criticising public outcry against gun-use and bad policing... I guess in America that level of shittiness is the status quo. You say "European libral shit", I call it true democracy being practiced in the place that invented the concept.
How would you deal with a police force that is over excessive in force? What's the conservative way?lowing wrote:
Yup, because there is nothing like protesting violence by engaging in a good old fashion riot. Typical liberal hypocrisy
In a civil manner. These kids antagonise officers verbally and with violent attacks, and cry abuse as soon as the officers react to it. They deserve no sympathy.TheAussieReaper wrote:
How would you deal with a police force that is over excessive in force? What's the conservative way?lowing wrote:
Yup, because there is nothing like protesting violence by engaging in a good old fashion riot. Typical liberal hypocrisy
Oh I dunno, investigate, and if a case can be built, arrest the officer and try him....But no, protesting violence by throwing a riot is a much nobler way. It shows a passion for peace and a williness to beat yuor brains in for it.TheAussieReaper wrote:
How would you deal with a police force that is over excessive in force? What's the conservative way?lowing wrote:
Yup, because there is nothing like protesting violence by engaging in a good old fashion riot. Typical liberal hypocrisy
Correct, when Police are attacked in a riot they deserve nothing other than a good beating.mikkel wrote:
In a civil manner. These kids antagonise officers verbally and with violent attacks, and cry abuse as soon as the officers react to it. They deserve no sympathy.TheAussieReaper wrote:
How would you deal with a police force that is over excessive in force? What's the conservative way?lowing wrote:
Yup, because there is nothing like protesting violence by engaging in a good old fashion riot. Typical liberal hypocrisy
The violence in Greece has been sparked by on going anti-police sentiment, and this shooting has just been the boiling point. It's not a protest over violence, if you believe that you don't understand why they are rioting at all. If "protesting violence by rioting" are the goggles you choose to view this with than fine, but your ignoring the cause for the whole thing.lowing wrote:
Oh I dunno, investigate, and if a case can be built, arrest the officer and try him....But no, protesting violence by throwing a riot is a much nobler way. It shows a passion for peace and a williness to beat yuor brains in for it.
Police brutality? Isn't that violence? If you think a govt. is going to stand by and let you riot without taking action in the form of more violence, then your goggles are thicker than mine.TheAussieReaper wrote:
The violence in Greece has been sparked by on going anti-police sentiment, and this shooting has just been the boiling point. It's not a protest over violence, if you believe that you don't understand why they are rioting at all. If "protesting violence by rioting" are the goggles you choose to view this with than fine, but your ignoring the cause for the whole thing.lowing wrote:
Oh I dunno, investigate, and if a case can be built, arrest the officer and try him....But no, protesting violence by throwing a riot is a much nobler way. It shows a passion for peace and a williness to beat yuor brains in for it.
This kid was attacking a police car and.............."Greece has a tradition of violence at student rallies and fire bomb attacks by anarchist groups, which have heightened tensions with police."
taken from http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/ … me=topNews
enough said