BF2S Forums WOW!!!!!!!!..........Is This The First Real Step To Peace In The M.E

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

I think you're getting Barrack Obama mixed up with Jesus Christ lowing.

I think you'll find rest of the world just breathed a collective sigh of relief that McCain didn't win.

Uhhhhh no, The world got Obama mixed up with Jesus Christ, not me. I think he is the anti-Christ.

I see so now the Obama election represents business as usual, no big deal. Never mind the citizens of the world were hugging one another and crying. And the media was there to record it all.

Wasn't the question raised about how we cann all be peoud to be American again and all of the bullshit that went with it?

You have a very warped view of what constitutes evil if you think Barrack Obama is the antichrist. Obama hasn't even taken office yet and you are already giving him a hard time while many here still, for some unknown reason, try to defend Bush and his legacy. Obama, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, represents "business as usual" in a non-pejorative sense. McCain represented 4 more years of potentially dangerous and unstable Republican leadership.

san4 wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

san4 wrote:

You are changing the subject. Hamas' position has nothing to do with settlements.

The peace process have everything to do with the illegal settlements.. Hamas was successful in preventing Israel from building settlements in the Gaza Strip. All i'm saying is if Hamas was gone tomorrow, the israelis would be colonizing the Gaza Strip and a peace deal would not exist either.

It's all in the hands of israel.

Israel could dismantle all settlements in the West Bank and Hamas would still refuse to make peace. That is the official position Hamas states in its charter. It says Israel should be destroyed and replaced by an Islamic state. No mention of settlements or peace. No peace is possible unless Hamas changes its position.

Israel can't get Hamas to make peace.

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

You have a very warped view of what constitutes evil if you think Barrack Obama is the antichrist. Obama hasn't even taken office yet and you are already giving him a hard time while many here still, for some unknown reason, try to defend Bush and his legacy. Obama, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, represents "business as usual" in a non-pejorative sense. McCain represented 4 more years of potentially dangerous and unstable Republican leadership.

How can you say that? McCain "hasn't even taken office yet".

I don't give a shit what the rest of the world thinks, Obama is the president of the US and not the president of the world. His anti-American ideology is what concerns me. The fact that the world loves the fact that the US voted in a socialist, just like THEY WANT, does little to warm my heart toward him or socialism.

Well the rest of the world doesn't give a shit what you think, they are glad the guy they perceived as better for International politics got in... simple as that. It has nothing to do with him having nice brown skin or being able to cure cancer with his warm, baritone voice.

And in relation the McCain comment I said "POTENTIALLY dangerous and unstable Republican leadership" so I'm not blaming him for anything before taking office.

Uzique wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Well the rest of the world doesn't give a shit what you think, they are glad the guy they perceived as better for International politics got in... simple as that. It has nothing to do with him having nice brown skin or being able to cure cancer with his warm, baritone voice.

And in relation the McCain comment I said "POTENTIALLY dangerous and unstable Republican leadership" so I'm not blaming him for anything before taking office.

Ok, so it s offical? The world really doesn'y give a shit what I think?

You only realize this now? Damn man, you coulda saved yourself a lot of time by being more alert 300 threads ago.

deeznutz1245 wrote:

Um, nobody takes you serious in here. As a matter of fact, even if this thread has meaning most people will not read it for the simple reason that you wrote it. Knowing that what I write right now might not even be read sort of inspires me to keep writing because some of the people who open this thread will completely skip what you write and start with my nonsense in this post. I hate you.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-12-10 19:23:00)

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

san4 wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

The peace process have everything to do with the illegal settlements.. Hamas was successful in preventing Israel from building settlements in the Gaza Strip. All i'm saying is if Hamas was gone tomorrow, the israelis would be colonizing the Gaza Strip and a peace deal would not exist either.

It's all in the hands of israel.

Israel could dismantle all settlements in the West Bank and Hamas would still refuse to make peace. That is the official position Hamas states in its charter. It says Israel should be destroyed and replaced by an Islamic state. No mention of settlements or peace. No peace is possible unless Hamas changes its position.

Israel can't get Hamas to make peace.

Removing the settlements would be the first step leading to the removal of Hamas from the picture..  Hamas got elected by the palestinians because they feel oppressed by the israelis.  Israel need to start making moves like that and the palestinians will no longer support Hamas.

If Israel think that they can keep opressing the palestinians and still achieve peace, they live in another world.

san4 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

san4 wrote:

You're saying that Hamas will agree to make peace with Israel while retaining its goal of no peace with Israel?

No, I'm saying "peace" (as in a collectively agreed peace plan such as Bush's "Road map to Peace") doesn't hinge on Hamas doing anything.  To think otherwise is ridiculous.  Giving Hamas more legitimacy by saying they are integral to peace in the region is counterproductive to actually achieving peace in the region.

Peace can be realized in the region (I think).  If the US were to apply diplomatic and economic pressure to historically friendly countries in the region (like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan etc) while doing the same to Israel (instead of offering the "road map" and then not objecting when Israel comes back with it's own list of demands in conflict with Bush's plan), actual progress would be made.  The reality is that Bush's remarks and lack of positive action in the region (while at the same time embarking in negative action) by all players shows that the interested parties don't seem to want peace in the region, to the detriment of everyone living there.

Regardless of what Israel, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and even the Palestinian Authority do, there can be no peace if Hamas continues to be violent. Hamas can continue to shoot rockets into Israel. It can send suicide bombers from Gaza and the West Bank. Hamas can kidnap more Israeli soldiers. Its ally, Hezbollah, can do the same things from its base in Lebanon. Signatures on pieces of paper won't stop any of that.

lowing wrote:

I thought the world was all going to have a group hug when Obama was elected....Oh wait, Mumbai, India.

Dilbert_X wrote:

SAN4 wrote:

Peace does not mean no violence whatsoever, but peace cannot mean daily rocket attacks, kidnappings and buses blowing up in Jerusalem.

Nor can it mean having hundreds of enemy settlements in what remains of your country, having your land taken because it overlooks those settlements, not being allowed to drive on a road in your own country because its reserved for those travelling from settlement to settlement.

Both sides need to be forced to thrash out a workable agreement.
Until the US withdraws blind support for Israel, monetary and in the UNSC, its not going to happen.

Dilbert_X wrote:

SAN4 wrote:

It obviously has to change that position before a workable agreement can happen.

Both sides have to move towards a workable solution somewhere in the middle.
Israeli side - The entire Levant should be theirs with Jerusalem as their capital, Palestinians can GTFO of land which has been theirs for the last 2,000 years.
Palestinian side - The Israelis should go back to Russia, Germany and Brooklyn or drown in the sea.

If the Israelis have no incentive to negotiate then they won't, and the stalemate will continue, so if the US withdraws unconditional support there may be progress.