Sounds like a bunch of mother fuckers that better get out and get marketable then doesn't it? The sucked the tit dry.Dilbert_X wrote:
More likely McJobsLowing wrote:
Those people will find jobs with whoever replaces the big 3.
yeah yeah yeah, heard this all before when Eastern folded, then Pan Am, then TWA. It is the same song and dance .You better save us or you will be sorry. The fact is, there are companies that are not mis managed and choked with union corruption that will step up and do a better job than those 3 suck ass corrupt dinosaurs.Burwhale the Avenger wrote:
I wouldnt be so quick to wish unemployment on the millions of people that work with the auto industry in the US for the big 3.lowing wrote:
Sounds a little too socialist/communist to me. No thanks, just let them fold and someone else will take over as the next big 3
If they all lost their jobs the economy would probably die in the arse in a big way. If you take the wages of a couple a million people out of the economy then the money they wont have cant go into food, or clothes, holidays or other industries. The flow on from there is scary as other industries may be forced to fold. Who knows, If rich people were trying to save money as a result, then maybe helicopter mechanics wouldnt be in such high demand.
Look, I really hope no one here will lose their job, I am only trying to illustrate a point. The main thing is, its pretty much a shit sandwich, but someone has to eat it.
Last edited by lowing (2008-12-09 10:57:58)
So you didn't get the help you thought you should....so PUCK anyone else.lowing wrote:
yeah yeah yeah, heard this all before when Eastern folded, then Pan Am, then TWA. It is the same song and dance .You better save us or you will be sorry. The fact is, there are companies that are not mis managed and choked with union corruption that will step up and do a better job than those 3 suck ass corrupt dinosaurs.Burwhale the Avenger wrote:
I wouldnt be so quick to wish unemployment on the millions of people that work with the auto industry in the US for the big 3.lowing wrote:
Sounds a little too socialist/communist to me. No thanks, just let them fold and someone else will take over as the next big 3
If they all lost their jobs the economy would probably die in the arse in a big way. If you take the wages of a couple a million people out of the economy then the money they wont have cant go into food, or clothes, holidays or other industries. The flow on from there is scary as other industries may be forced to fold. Who knows, If rich people were trying to save money as a result, then maybe helicopter mechanics wouldnt be in such high demand.
Look, I really hope no one here will lose their job, I am only trying to illustrate a point. The main thing is, its pretty much a shit sandwich, but someone has to eat it.
Nice one there
The air lines failed because of Airline Deregulation Act
"Clause A" allowed domestic carriers to begin operating on international routes.
"Clause B" allowed the airlines to operate domestically.
Only "Clause A" was put into effect as the other airlines convinced Congress that the affected airlines would monopolize all U.S. air routes.
NOT unions NOT mismanagement
Place the blame where you SHOULD for a change and not with your wild ass bigotry.
Some FACTS on Eastern airlines. (I be live that's the one lowing worked for)
When the 1980s started, Eastern operated under its new president, former astronaut Frank Borman. First beloved by the employees, and eventually seen as selling out the carrier to union-buster Frank Lorenzo, Borman saw himself as trying to save Eastern from itself.
Eastern began losing money as it faced competition from no-frills airlines, such as People Express, which offered drastically reduced air fares. In an attempt to differentiate itself from its bargain competitors, Eastern began a marketing campaign stressing its quality of service and its rank of highly experienced pilots.
Unable to keep up, Borman agreed to the sale of the airline in 1986 to Texas Air, led by Frank Lorenzo. Lorenzo (who was named as one of Time Magazine's 10 "worst bosses of the century") was known as a ruthless corporate raider and union buster. He had already purchased Continental and lost a bidding war for TWA to Carl Icahn.
Although Eastern's employees saw Lorenzo at the time as a savior, he would prove to be anything but a hero to the employees by the end of the decade. This event is widely seen as the beginning of the unwinding of the company, and the beginning of a steep decline into a period that saw strikes, empty planes, mass layoffs, bankruptcy, and eventually a ceasing of operations.
Under Lorenzo's tenure, Eastern was crippled by severe labor unrest. Asked to accept deep cuts in pay and benefits, Eastern's mechanics and ramp service employees, represented by the IAM (International Assn. of Machinists and Aerospace Workers), walked out on March 4, 1989. A sympathy strike called by the pilots represented by ALPA (Air Line Pilots Assn.) and flight attendants represented by TWU (Transport Workers Union) effectively shut down the airline's domestic operations. Non-contract employees, including airport gate and ticket counter agents and reservation sales agents, did not honor the strike. Due to the strike, flights were canceled, resulting in the loss of millions of dollars in revenue.
Lorenzo sold Eastern's shuttle service to real estate magnate Donald Trump in 1989, under whom it became the Trump Shuttle, while selling other parts of Eastern to his Texas Air holding company and its major subsidiary, Continental Airlines, on disadvantageous terms to Eastern.
As a result of the strike, weakened airline structure, inability to compete after deregulation and other financial problems, Eastern filed for bankruptcy protection on March 9, 1989. This gave Lorenzo breathing room, and allowed him to continue operating the airline with non-union employees. When control of the airline was taken away from Lorenzo by the courts and given to Marty Shugrue, it continued operations in an attempt to correct its cash flow, but to no avail. With the airline collapsing from debt, it ran out of money to operate on January 18, 1991 following the run-up to the Gulf War. Over 18,000 employees lost their jobs and pensions in one day, not including the thousands laid off or furloughed prior to the collapse.
An asset liquidation sale was commenced later that year and provided Eastern's creditors with a remarkably good payout.
Union-busting Management, among other things, brings down a airline and you back them?
Think that says it all.
When the 1980s started, Eastern operated under its new president, former astronaut Frank Borman. First beloved by the employees, and eventually seen as selling out the carrier to union-buster Frank Lorenzo, Borman saw himself as trying to save Eastern from itself.
Eastern began losing money as it faced competition from no-frills airlines, such as People Express, which offered drastically reduced air fares. In an attempt to differentiate itself from its bargain competitors, Eastern began a marketing campaign stressing its quality of service and its rank of highly experienced pilots.
Unable to keep up, Borman agreed to the sale of the airline in 1986 to Texas Air, led by Frank Lorenzo. Lorenzo (who was named as one of Time Magazine's 10 "worst bosses of the century") was known as a ruthless corporate raider and union buster. He had already purchased Continental and lost a bidding war for TWA to Carl Icahn.
Although Eastern's employees saw Lorenzo at the time as a savior, he would prove to be anything but a hero to the employees by the end of the decade. This event is widely seen as the beginning of the unwinding of the company, and the beginning of a steep decline into a period that saw strikes, empty planes, mass layoffs, bankruptcy, and eventually a ceasing of operations.
Under Lorenzo's tenure, Eastern was crippled by severe labor unrest. Asked to accept deep cuts in pay and benefits, Eastern's mechanics and ramp service employees, represented by the IAM (International Assn. of Machinists and Aerospace Workers), walked out on March 4, 1989. A sympathy strike called by the pilots represented by ALPA (Air Line Pilots Assn.) and flight attendants represented by TWU (Transport Workers Union) effectively shut down the airline's domestic operations. Non-contract employees, including airport gate and ticket counter agents and reservation sales agents, did not honor the strike. Due to the strike, flights were canceled, resulting in the loss of millions of dollars in revenue.
Lorenzo sold Eastern's shuttle service to real estate magnate Donald Trump in 1989, under whom it became the Trump Shuttle, while selling other parts of Eastern to his Texas Air holding company and its major subsidiary, Continental Airlines, on disadvantageous terms to Eastern.
As a result of the strike, weakened airline structure, inability to compete after deregulation and other financial problems, Eastern filed for bankruptcy protection on March 9, 1989. This gave Lorenzo breathing room, and allowed him to continue operating the airline with non-union employees. When control of the airline was taken away from Lorenzo by the courts and given to Marty Shugrue, it continued operations in an attempt to correct its cash flow, but to no avail. With the airline collapsing from debt, it ran out of money to operate on January 18, 1991 following the run-up to the Gulf War. Over 18,000 employees lost their jobs and pensions in one day, not including the thousands laid off or furloughed prior to the collapse.
An asset liquidation sale was commenced later that year and provided Eastern's creditors with a remarkably good payout.
Union-busting Management, among other things, brings down a airline and you back them?
Think that says it all.
the Reality... if the bailout/loan goes through(might get filibustered)... it gives GM another three months before it goes into bankruptcy... then GM will either fight hard to rebuild(during bankruptcy) and become what they once were... or they will go out of business... the unions have protected these poor people out of a job.... Where else can they do manual labor for 28 bucks an hour plus amazing benefits?
The Unions in their current state are a contributing factor to why these 3 are in the situation they are in... along with rewarding CEOs with multimillion dollar salaries to make unprofitable vehicles...
My heart goes out to the people that will lose their jobs... even with the bailout... lot's of folks will be laidoff to cut costs...
The Unions in their current state are a contributing factor to why these 3 are in the situation they are in... along with rewarding CEOs with multimillion dollar salaries to make unprofitable vehicles...
My heart goes out to the people that will lose their jobs... even with the bailout... lot's of folks will be laidoff to cut costs...
Love is the answer
The airlines failed because they wanted to compete thinking they actually could. They had no idea just how easy it was t ostart up an airline. Hell most of them actually sold aging aircraft to new start up airlines, thinking they were not a threat.Karbin wrote:
So you didn't get the help you thought you should....so PUCK anyone else.lowing wrote:
yeah yeah yeah, heard this all before when Eastern folded, then Pan Am, then TWA. It is the same song and dance .You better save us or you will be sorry. The fact is, there are companies that are not mis managed and choked with union corruption that will step up and do a better job than those 3 suck ass corrupt dinosaurs.Burwhale the Avenger wrote:
I wouldnt be so quick to wish unemployment on the millions of people that work with the auto industry in the US for the big 3.
If they all lost their jobs the economy would probably die in the arse in a big way. If you take the wages of a couple a million people out of the economy then the money they wont have cant go into food, or clothes, holidays or other industries. The flow on from there is scary as other industries may be forced to fold. Who knows, If rich people were trying to save money as a result, then maybe helicopter mechanics wouldnt be in such high demand.
Look, I really hope no one here will lose their job, I am only trying to illustrate a point. The main thing is, its pretty much a shit sandwich, but someone has to eat it.
Nice one there
The air lines failed because of Airline Deregulation Act
"Clause A" allowed domestic carriers to begin operating on international routes.
"Clause B" allowed the airlines to operate domestically.
Only "Clause A" was put into effect as the other airlines convinced Congress that the affected airlines would monopolize all U.S. air routes.
NOT unions NOT mismanagement
Place the blame where you SHOULD for a change and not with your wild ass bigotry.
The big 3 failed because they spent the past 97 years out of 100 ( recognizing your steller report of them for the past 3 years) establishing a reputation of corrupt unions, mis-managment and shitty quality.
Nope, if I worked for Eastern I doubt I would be getting recalled.Karbin wrote:
Some FACTS on Eastern airlines. (I be live that's the one lowing worked for)
When the 1980s started, Eastern operated under its new president, former astronaut Frank Borman. First beloved by the employees, and eventually seen as selling out the carrier to union-buster Frank Lorenzo, Borman saw himself as trying to save Eastern from itself.
Eastern began losing money as it faced competition from no-frills airlines, such as People Express, which offered drastically reduced air fares. In an attempt to differentiate itself from its bargain competitors, Eastern began a marketing campaign stressing its quality of service and its rank of highly experienced pilots.
Unable to keep up, Borman agreed to the sale of the airline in 1986 to Texas Air, led by Frank Lorenzo. Lorenzo (who was named as one of Time Magazine's 10 "worst bosses of the century") was known as a ruthless corporate raider and union buster. He had already purchased Continental and lost a bidding war for TWA to Carl Icahn.
Although Eastern's employees saw Lorenzo at the time as a savior, he would prove to be anything but a hero to the employees by the end of the decade. This event is widely seen as the beginning of the unwinding of the company, and the beginning of a steep decline into a period that saw strikes, empty planes, mass layoffs, bankruptcy, and eventually a ceasing of operations.
Under Lorenzo's tenure, Eastern was crippled by severe labor unrest. Asked to accept deep cuts in pay and benefits, Eastern's mechanics and ramp service employees, represented by the IAM (International Assn. of Machinists and Aerospace Workers), walked out on March 4, 1989. A sympathy strike called by the pilots represented by ALPA (Air Line Pilots Assn.) and flight attendants represented by TWU (Transport Workers Union) effectively shut down the airline's domestic operations. Non-contract employees, including airport gate and ticket counter agents and reservation sales agents, did not honor the strike. Due to the strike, flights were canceled, resulting in the loss of millions of dollars in revenue.
Lorenzo sold Eastern's shuttle service to real estate magnate Donald Trump in 1989, under whom it became the Trump Shuttle, while selling other parts of Eastern to his Texas Air holding company and its major subsidiary, Continental Airlines, on disadvantageous terms to Eastern.
As a result of the strike, weakened airline structure, inability to compete after deregulation and other financial problems, Eastern filed for bankruptcy protection on March 9, 1989. This gave Lorenzo breathing room, and allowed him to continue operating the airline with non-union employees. When control of the airline was taken away from Lorenzo by the courts and given to Marty Shugrue, it continued operations in an attempt to correct its cash flow, but to no avail. With the airline collapsing from debt, it ran out of money to operate on January 18, 1991 following the run-up to the Gulf War. Over 18,000 employees lost their jobs and pensions in one day, not including the thousands laid off or furloughed prior to the collapse.
An asset liquidation sale was commenced later that year and provided Eastern's creditors with a remarkably good payout.
Union-busting Management, among other things, brings down a airline and you back them?
Think that says it all.
anyway to your post.
I never said Eastern was done in by unions, and to be honest I can not believe Lorenzo is still alive. No shit, with all of the crap he pulled I am literally surprised the guy is still alive.
My thing about Eastern and the rest is, once upon a time Eastern was part of the major carriers that was was going to rule the roost for a long time. Now they are gone and others took over. The same will happen with the big 3.
You know if Bush had fixed the illegal alien problem this wouldnt have been blown out of proportion as much as it is now.Burwhale the Avenger wrote:
I wouldnt be so quick to wish unemployment on the millions of people that work with the auto industry in the US for the big 3.lowing wrote:
Sounds a little too socialist/communist to me. No thanks, just let them fold and someone else will take over as the next big 3
If they all lost their jobs the economy would probably die in the arse in a big way. If you take the wages of a couple a million people out of the economy then the money they wont have cant go into food, or clothes, holidays or other industries. The flow on from there is scary as other industries may be forced to fold. Who knows, If rich people were trying to save money as a result, then maybe helicopter mechanics wouldnt be in such high demand.
Look, I really hope no one here will lose their job, I am only trying to illustrate a point. The main thing is, its pretty much a shit sandwich, but someone has to eat it.
Who would do the work the lazy Americans won't do then? It sure the fuck ain't gonna be me.The#1Spot wrote:
You know if Bush had fixed the illegal alien problem this wouldnt have been blown out of proportion as much as it is now.Burwhale the Avenger wrote:
I wouldnt be so quick to wish unemployment on the millions of people that work with the auto industry in the US for the big 3.lowing wrote:
Sounds a little too socialist/communist to me. No thanks, just let them fold and someone else will take over as the next big 3
If they all lost their jobs the economy would probably die in the arse in a big way. If you take the wages of a couple a million people out of the economy then the money they wont have cant go into food, or clothes, holidays or other industries. The flow on from there is scary as other industries may be forced to fold. Who knows, If rich people were trying to save money as a result, then maybe helicopter mechanics wouldnt be in such high demand.
Look, I really hope no one here will lose their job, I am only trying to illustrate a point. The main thing is, its pretty much a shit sandwich, but someone has to eat it.