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2008-11-28 16:59:19
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6833|Global Command
http://www.floydsfork.org/ht/ht_lincolndeath.htm
https://www.floydsfork.org/ht/images/ht_tomb.jpg


The first Thanksgiving.



https://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/97/96797-004-66B24CFA.jpg


Americans of European and native birth broke bread together. They shared in the harvest and this should have set the tone for all future relations between our peoples.

Nope, all that is discussed is this.
Americans engaged in genocide against the indians. Blah de fucking blah.

The first Thanksgiving was in 1621. Next year this happened.

The fact is, it only took a few malcontent indians to steal or murder whites to condemn their entire race to...what happened.

If the American Indians had been able to police their own, co-exist peacefully with the whites, honor agreements they would hold power in America today. Don't give my the line of bs about how our very existence caused the end of the indians; the Spanish introduced 95% of the diseases that did them in. Their own inability to adapt and change is why they are where they are.
2008-11-28 17:11:39
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6698|The Gem Saloon

President Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Governor William Henry Harrison wrote:

Our system is to live in perpetual peace with the Indians, to cultivate an affectionate attachement for them by everything just and liberal which we can do for them within our bounds of reason and by giving them effectual protection against the wrongs of our own people. When they withdraw themselves to the culture of a small piece of land, they will perceive how useless to them are the extensive forests and will be willing to pare them off in exchange for necessaries for their farms and families. To promote this, we shall push our trading houses, and be glad to see the good and influential individuals among them in debt, because we observe when these debts go beyond what the individual can pay, they become willing to lop them off by a cession of lands. But should any tribe refuse the proffered hand and take up the hatchet, it will be driven across the Mississippi and the whole of its lands confiscated.
if the american indians were able to co-exist peacefully with the whites? 
they did...a few times, and then they got fucked for it.

what about the whites? why couldnt they play by the same rules? the "our way or the highway" mentality left little room to negotiate.


and its a shame that the jamestown massacre happened....but we got em back. when it was time to talk peace, we were cordial enough to poison and kill over 200 of the indians that came. cause thats just the kind of honorable guys we were back then...

Wikipedia wrote:

Expansion into Indian land and breach of agreements continued to be the general relationship, leading to an increasing level of frustration amongst the tribes.
sounds to me like they were fucked either way.
2008-11-28 17:35:37
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6833|Global Command
The key point I'd like you to consider is that the breaking of bread came first. Thomas Jeffersons letter came well after the massacre at Jamestown.
2008-11-28 17:37:42
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6698|The Gem Saloon
and how many times had we made war with them BEFORE the attack on jamestown?


its not like they were all sitting around bored all day and decided to attack that place for shits and giggles.


we were already enemies when we sat down for thanksgiving.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Angl … whatan_War

Wikipedia wrote:

Relations between the two peoples had been deteriorating since late 1608, when the starving colonists began to strong-arm some supplies of corn from the natives, who had likewise had a bad harvest. Captain John Smith's contacts with rival tribes around the Chesapeake Bay in the summer, and Captain Christopher Newport's military expedition to the Monacan country that fall, had not helped matters.
now that doesnt sound too thanksgiving-ish of the settlers.



now this little tid-bit is a personal favorite of mine;

Wikipedia wrote:

On August 9, 1610, tired of waiting for a response from Powhatan, De la Warr sent George Percy with 70 men to attack the Paspahegh capital, burning the houses and cutting down their cornfields. They killed 65 to 75, and captured one of Wowinchopunk's wives and her children. Returning downstream, the English threw the children overboard, and shot out "their Braynes in the water". The queen was put to the sword in Jamestown. The Paspahegh never recovered from this attack, and abandoned their town. Another small force sent with Samuel Argall against the Warraskoyaks found that they had already fled, but he destroyed their abandoned village and cornfields as well.
fuck me.

i cant even believe they could bring themselves to sit down with those cocksuckers, much less give them food.
what a way to make war!
2008-11-28 17:47:55
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6905|132 and Bush

We encourage the hearts, and nerve the arms of the twelve thousand to adhere to their work, and argue for it, and proselyte for it, and fight for it, and feed it, and grow it, and ripen it to a complete success. The colored man too, in seeing all united for him, is inspired with vigilance, and energy, and daring, to the same end. Grant that he desires the elective franchise, will he not attain it sooner by saving the already advanced steps toward it, than by running backward over them? Concede that the new government of Louisiana is only to what it should be as the egg is to the fowl, we shall sooner have the fowl by hatching the egg than by smashing it?
Abe vaguely mentioned giving Blacks the right to vote one day in the rose garden. A psychopathic racist was listening and killed him the very next day (enough was enough in his mind.).

Something that people fail to remember is that the Indians sold their land. This isn't to say that there was some trickery involved. But the truth is somewhere between "Omg we totally bent them over" and "what the fuck chief, you just sold us out". There were massacres on both sides.. it's just our European brethren had already mastered the art.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-11-28 20:11:38
Vax
Member
+42|6156|Flyover country

Parker wrote:

what about the whites? why couldnt they play by the same rules? the "our way or the highway" mentality left little room to negotiate.
Yup, "we" (the settlers) were bastards. We were also racist, white supremacists. Slave owners even. Colonial times it was "normal"

Ugly for sure   

I can see the point though; there was ugliness on Both sides, these were wars with casualties on and atrocities committed by both sides, it was not all just a one way mass genocide..even though in the end, that is arguably what it amounted to.. (culturecide?) 

It's sort of mind boggling just how many wars there were
2008-11-29 00:54:11
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6774
ATG the founding fathers were exiled Europeans who wanted nothing more than their own land, their own power and their own religious code.

You're trying to shift part of the blame for the Native-Indian genocide onto them? The people who founded your country were the most despicable repugnant people going- people preaching the values of freedom and independence whilst holding hundreds of slaves under their ownership and service. Riiight. I don't think these European dropouts braved the hardships of crossing the Atlantic to share a new bounteous land with the "savages" and uncivilized non-Christians that lived there
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2008-11-29 05:11:50
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6410|eXtreme to the maX

ATG wrote:

If the American Indians had been able to police their own, co-exist peacefully with the whites, honor agreements they would hold power in America today.
Why should they have let even one white man set foot on their land?
Or tell me why you shouldn't allow every mexican who wants to come to america to do so?

Name a treaty the white men honoured.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-11-29 05:15:49)

Fuck Israel
2008-11-29 11:08:46
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6709|North Carolina
I doubt any treaties or organization would have helped the fate of the Native Americans much.  Disease killed more of them than any conquest.  Sadly, it was biology itself that led to the most death.
2008-11-29 11:57:18
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6905|132 and Bush

Uzique wrote:

ATG the founding fathers were exiled Europeans who wanted nothing more than their own land, their own power and their own religious code.
Yes their ancestors were tired of the old and decayed feudal ways. They were also adamantly against a National Church. Like they one the left in England. Especially after that whole Salem thing .
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-11-29 13:29:53
mcjagdflieger
Champion of Dueling Rectums
+26|6615|South Jersey
seriously Uzi. exiled europeans? dropouts? get real. or just read a book. either way you shouldn't let your petty hate of a country shine so much. oh and those dropouts kicked your fucking asses. so eat it.
2008-11-30 04:57:17
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6797|Connecticut
@ ATG


You are an ignorant fucktard. If you truly believe Thanksgiving was a bread breaking festivity, or peaceful by any means you are way beyond even debate on this matter.
Malloy must go

 

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