lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081128/ap_ … mart_death


People are so poor and starved in America  that apparently they killed this guy to get to the food isle, right?

Last edited by lowing (2008-11-28 11:28:06)

Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6925|London, England
How the shit does this shit even happen, people shouldn't be allowed to be in large groups, ever.
13/f/taiwan
Member
+940|6003
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=115582



Btw, it would have happened with/without an 'economic crisis'. Black Friday.
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6775
What do short-term marketing gimmicks have to do with macro-economics?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Mekstizzle wrote:

How the shit does this shit even happen, people shouldn't be allowed to be in large groups, ever.
Sometimes I am not proud to an American, shit like this is one of those times.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Uzique wrote:

What do short-term marketing gimmicks have to do with macro-economics?
Oh please, spare me your "what? I dunno whatcher talkin' about" routine
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6775

lowing wrote:

Uzique wrote:

What do short-term marketing gimmicks have to do with macro-economics?
Oh please, spare me your "what? I dunno whatcher talkin' about" routine
I honestly don't. Black Friday is a marketing gimmick; a festive-based short-term incentive for a quick buck and a discount sale. What's that got to do with a macroeconomic-scale crisis caused by the banking and financial institutions?

In before "Because of them Islams" routine.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Uzique wrote:

lowing wrote:

Uzique wrote:

What do short-term marketing gimmicks have to do with macro-economics?
Oh please, spare me your "what? I dunno whatcher talkin' about" routine
I honestly don't. Black Friday is a marketing gimmick; a festive-based short-term incentive for a quick buck and a discount sale. What's that got to do with a macroeconomic-scale crisis caused by the banking and financial institutions?

In before "Because of them Islams" routine.
Just in case ya missed the papers, We Americans are supposed to be broke,, suffering, can't afford gas, or food or to pay our bills. Yet for some strange reason we have no problem stampeding some poor guy to death to holiday shopping. Not to even mention the others that were hurt, also not t oeven mention that people ignored emergency crews trying to save this guy and stepped over them to go shopping.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6925|London, England
Yeah I'm hoping the recession will mean that the annoying shit you get with shoppers won't be there this time round because there won't be any, unfortunately it doesn't look like that's the case in the USA. I'd take a recession and some peace and quiet over a booming economy and fucking all that annoying christmas shit
13/f/taiwan
Member
+940|6003

lowing wrote:

Uzique wrote:

lowing wrote:


Oh please, spare me your "what? I dunno whatcher talkin' about" routine
I honestly don't. Black Friday is a marketing gimmick; a festive-based short-term incentive for a quick buck and a discount sale. What's that got to do with a macroeconomic-scale crisis caused by the banking and financial institutions?

In before "Because of them Islams" routine.
Just in case ya missed the papers, We Americans are supposed to be broke,, suffering, can't afford gas, or food or to pay our bills. Yet for some strange reason we have no problem stampeding some poor guy to death to holiday shopping. Not to even mention the others that were hurt, also not t oeven mention that people ignored emergency crews trying to save this guy and stepped over them to go shopping.
Stop watching the news. There is your problem.
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6775

lowing wrote:

Uzique wrote:

lowing wrote:


Oh please, spare me your "what? I dunno whatcher talkin' about" routine
I honestly don't. Black Friday is a marketing gimmick; a festive-based short-term incentive for a quick buck and a discount sale. What's that got to do with a macroeconomic-scale crisis caused by the banking and financial institutions?

In before "Because of them Islams" routine.
Just in case ya missed the papers, We Americans are supposed to be broke,, suffering, can't afford gas, or food or to pay our bills. Yet for some strange reason we have no problem stampeding some poor guy to death to holiday shopping. Not to even mention the others that were hurt, also not t oeven mention that people ignored emergency crews trying to save this guy and stepped over them to go shopping.
Yes, but you're deriving a conclusion from the after-effects of the crisis, not the causes. When you talk about the 'economic crisis' you're talking about the unrest in the banking institutions and so on... your economic crisis is not the cash-strapped average Joe, that's an effect of the crisis. Black Friday is, as you said, holiday-shopping and a day for consumerist frenzy. As for the point about emergency crews, that's completely ancillary to the economic factors, but I suppose it says alot about our materialist buy-buy-buy culture, if you wanted to be hyper-cynical about things.

I guess I could reword my point succintly into: This would still happen with or without the economic crisis; irregardless of economic climate or the relative expendable income of your average Joe. It's caused by the hype of the marketing gimmick, by the post-Thanksgiving shopping frenzy. Completely unrelated to anything that you could term 'macroeconomic'.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Uzique wrote:

lowing wrote:

Uzique wrote:


I honestly don't. Black Friday is a marketing gimmick; a festive-based short-term incentive for a quick buck and a discount sale. What's that got to do with a macroeconomic-scale crisis caused by the banking and financial institutions?

In before "Because of them Islams" routine.
Just in case ya missed the papers, We Americans are supposed to be broke,, suffering, can't afford gas, or food or to pay our bills. Yet for some strange reason we have no problem stampeding some poor guy to death to holiday shopping. Not to even mention the others that were hurt, also not t oeven mention that people ignored emergency crews trying to save this guy and stepped over them to go shopping.
Yes, but you're deriving a conclusion from the after-effects of the crisis, not the causes. When you talk about the 'economic crisis' you're talking about the unrest in the banking institutions and so on... your economic crisis is not the cash-strapped average Joe, that's an effect of the crisis. Black Friday is, as you said, holiday-shopping and a day for consumerist frenzy. As for the point about emergency crews, that's completely ancillary to the economic factors, but I suppose it says alot about our materialist buy-buy-buy culture, if you wanted to be hyper-cynical about things.

I guess I could reword my point succintly into: This would still happen with or without the economic crisis; irregardless of economic climate or the relative expendable income of your average Joe. It's caused by the hype of the marketing gimmick, by the post-Thanksgiving shopping frenzy. Completely unrelated to anything that you could term 'macroeconomic'.
No this "crisis" was started because people failed to make good on their loans. We are in a recession, we are not supposed to be able to shop til we drop remember, we are all broke, can;t afford food or gas, suffering.
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6775
It was a stampede at Wal-Mart, no one was rushing to buy a diamond watch or a Merc... I don't see how the background-recession would affect it that much. People would rush for a good deal in any bargain store if it was spun and hyped up to be some huge festive event, as Black Friday is. 

You make a good point about the social implications of this news-story, but I think you're just illogically spinning it and relating it to something that really is entirely disconnected. A person with a different economic/political/personal outlook could just as competently argue that they were rushing for goods with no regard for other human beings because the economic crisis is so desperate, such is the rush for cheap discounted goods. I think tying in the wider economic crisis with a Thanksgiving rush for presents is pretty fruitless though, overall.

As for the start of the crisis, that's arguable where you place the culpability. You seem to blame people who fail to "make good" on their loans... personally I'd be more inclined to blame the sharkish bankers who sold said loans to a demographic that clearly had no hope in hell of repaying the loans on their terms. But that's a debate for another day... or thread, even.

Last edited by Uzique (2008-11-28 11:59:18)

libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6885|SE London

lowing wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

How the shit does this shit even happen, people shouldn't be allowed to be in large groups, ever.
Sometimes I am not proud to an American, shit like this is one of those times.
Too right. It's not just Americans though. Many people in most Western countries are consumer monkeys. Behaviour like this is utterly disgraceful and it is disgusting to think that so many shoppers (I would've said people, but they barely qualify) can act in such a callous manner, with such blatant disregard for human life.

I have to say I disagree with you about this indicating that people have not been hit hard by the recession. You could equally well argue that people trying to save money (because they have less) would be even more attracted to sales at stores like Wal-Mart - but personally, I don't think it shows much either way.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2008-11-28 12:12:58)

Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6951
Recession in America means spending less money on crap you don't need than you normally do but still spending money.
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|6006|College Park, MD
Lowing, I think part of this 'economic crisis' is people spending tons of shit on things they don't need, like cheap DVD players.

And this doesn't make me unproud to be an American; it makes me unproud to be a homo sapiens.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6905|132 and Bush

I saw some video someone took with their cell phone. People were laughing in the background as they tried to revive him. I'll never understand those types. They make me sick.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Roger Lesboules
Ah ben tabarnak!
+316|6881|Abitibi-Temiscamingue. Québec!

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

Recession in America means spending less money on crap you don't need than you normally do but still spending money.
Most of Holiday things people buy are Crap...
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7066

Kmarion wrote:

I saw some video someone took with their cell phone. People were laughing in the background as they tried to revive him. I'll never understand those types. They make me sick.
yep.  i would honestly kill everyone who was laughing.  i think this kind of marketing crap should be banned.  these women need more hobbies other than this retarded lameness.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7066

i wonder how hard it would be to file a class action lawsuit banning black friday retail crap.
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6823|Πάϊ

usmarine wrote:

women need more hobbies
ƒ³
Bell
Frosties > Cornflakes
+362|6853|UK

usmarine wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

I saw some video someone took with their cell phone. People were laughing in the background as they tried to revive him. I'll never understand those types. They make me sick.
yep.  i would honestly kill everyone who was laughing.  i think this kind of marketing crap should be banned.  these women need more hobbies other than this retarded lameness.
True, I do find though that, people, seem really not to grasp a situation like that.  I mean, there was that video of the guy being run over and people simply driving/walking past.  I dont think there specifically bad people, although am sure some are, I just dont think they know what is really going on.

Either that or they are waiting the que of the emo muzak and slow mo panning shots.
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|6006|College Park, MD
Nah, they're specifically bad people.

Anyway, part of this problem also lies with the store. There were tons of other stores, including other Wal-marts, where there were large crowds for Black Friday... yet nobody died. While part of the blame lies on the crowd, the store also has to accept some blame.

If they had done better crowd control (e.g. opening doors slowly, so that nobody other than the people in front really notice... or having everyone in an orderly, zig-zagging line which would stop a big blob mob from busting in... or cops with tear gas) then this might have been avoided.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

How the shit does this shit even happen, people shouldn't be allowed to be in large groups, ever.
Sometimes I am not proud to an American, shit like this is one of those times.
Too right. It's not just Americans though. Many people in most Western countries are consumer monkeys. Behaviour like this is utterly disgraceful and it is disgusting to think that so many shoppers (I would've said people, but they barely qualify) can act in such a callous manner, with such blatant disregard for human life.

I have to say I disagree with you about this indicating that people have not been hit hard by the recession. You could equally well argue that people trying to save money (because they have less) would be even more attracted to sales at stores like Wal-Mart - but personally, I don't think it shows much either way.
I could agree except for the fact that one of the sale items was a plasma TV. Clearly, the priorties of the "economic crisis" have changed from those of the "Great Depression" of which this is compared. It is the reason for the thread.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Lowing, I think part of this 'economic crisis' is people spending tons of shit on things they don't need, like cheap DVD players.

And this doesn't make me unproud to be an American; it makes me unproud to be a homo sapiens.
No, this makes me unproud to be an American, because there are people in this world who are REALLY suffering and here we are bitching the loudest about how tough we have it and how we can not afford gas food or pay our bills, then we act like this.

What is really troubling is, this was not a group of select people, this was a diversified slice of Americans totally ransom sample group. I know this could have happened anywhere in America, and in fact has before.

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