is russia developed? maybe you should go ask what they did to captured georgia troops......Bertster7 wrote:
Name something more heinous being done by a developed 1st world nation at present.
ChechnyaBertster7 wrote:
Name something more heinous being done by a developed 1st world nation at present.usmarine wrote:
thats cute. you are unreal. i have never seen so many bleeding hearts over one issue yet not talking about truly heinous things going on in the world. but thats fine, i expect that from muppets and parrots.Bertster7 wrote:
So might you. Prove you're not.
You said "bush started a war on terror" --as if it was a completely out of the blue with no context on the reason it was launched. 9/11 is that context, so I wondered if you thought bush was responsible for that. I think it was a fair question, given the way you leave that part out of the discussion.TheAussieReaper wrote:
9/11 Bush did not have a hand it. I don't know where the fuck you pulled that from. But whatever.
Again, IRAQ has Nothing to do with this topic, about detainees at Guatanamo bay.TheAussieReaper wrote:
Bush started it? Bush started the war in Iraq. That has nothing, absolutely NOTHING to do with the September 11th, 2001. The war on terror somehow managed to cover both fronts, but it seems that the focus was always on Iraq 1st, Afghanistan 2nd.
It's been explained several times already, they put themselves in that position by not following the GC themselvesTheAussieReaper wrote:
And I can't understand how you think that these pow's put themselves in the difficult to define status. It's your trials and court system that doesn't believe they fall under a flag or The Geneva convention.
You're taking a single issue (Gitmo) and then saying that as a people we aren't very moral? That is utterly asinine.Turquoise wrote:
Bert, I think the general gist of this thread shows that you can't expect America to be very moral. Very few countries with anything close to resembling our power are.
You know the general principle of power corrupts, right? Well, the more power you have, the more corrupt you generally become. Considering how we're the world's last superpower, is it really any surprise that we're as corrupt as we are?
We'll probably always have "flexible" standards in dealing with terror suspects, mostly because of how paranoid we are. Apparently, a large portion of our society thinks fighting terrorism resembles the 24 tv show.
If you can't see a difference there, It's probably best that I don't engage in further discussion with you.oug wrote:
You're wrong. The response is "well, that's what you get from the uncivilized". With Gitmo you're no better than them.Vax wrote:
I know we are supposed to take the moral high road, but lets not forget what THEY generally do when they capture our soldiers.
It's funny how there is no outcry about that ..US soldier gets fucking tortured and beheaded, and the response is "well that's what they get"
Same exact thing applies to you, only you don't even have the facts on your side, just rumors, conjecture and a false image of a bunch of innocent people wrongfully held with NO charge, and probably tortured.oug wrote:
You people don't get it or don't WANT to get it because you have taken sides on this. Simple as that. All your arguments have been discussed, and turned down. Yet you keep on saying the same things over and over. If you don't want to understand then too bad. After all, you're the ones who will pay for this first. You should care more than me.
Why, because this is a war? Wasn't it you who said that there are Gitmo detainees with whose country of origin you're not at war with? How are they different than me or you? Please explain.FEOS wrote:
Stop talking about criminal statutes and processes! They have NOTHING to do with this. At all.
Are you seriously comparing the USA with African nations? South American US backed dictatorships? The Chinese ffs? Yeah, those prisons are probably way worse than Gitmo. So how does that help your argument? Turquoise is absolutely right:M.O.A.B wrote:
Some people need to take a look at a few African, South American, Russian or Chinese prisons (the ones they don't bring up) and then come back and say how bad Gitmo is in comparison.
Turquoise wrote:
you can't expect America to be very moral. Very few countries with anything close to resembling our power are.
If you got nothing to say it's best that you don't.Vax wrote:
If you can't see a difference there, It's probably best that I don't engage in further discussion with you.
Don't put words in my mouth to create an impression please. I never said they were innocent. I said that first they have to be charged with something, then tried, and then we can talk about it. You're the one who thinks they're guilty simply based on the fact that they're inside Gitmo. So what's utterly laughable again?Vax wrote:
Same exact thing applies to you, only you don't even have the facts on your side, just rumors, conjecture and a false image of a bunch of innocent people wrongfully held with NO charge, and probably tortured.
You call it a "concentration camp", FFS. Utterly laughable.
You're bitching about one prison like there's no tomorrow, like its the worst crime to humanity since the Nazis when its solid fact that people in Gitmo aren't subjected to anything like that in other prisons around the world.oug wrote:
Are you seriously comparing the USA with African nations? South American US backed dictatorships? The Chinese ffs? Yeah, those prisons are probably way worse than Gitmo. So how does that help your argument?M.O.A.B wrote:
Some people need to take a look at a few African, South American, Russian or Chinese prisons (the ones they don't bring up) and then come back and say how bad Gitmo is in comparison.
They are different in that they engaged in combat against another power. Have you been engaging in combat lately?oug wrote:
Why, because this is a war? Wasn't it you who said that there are Gitmo detainees with whose country of origin you're not at war with? How are they different than me or you? Please explain.FEOS wrote:
Stop talking about criminal statutes and processes! They have NOTHING to do with this. At all.
I explained more than once that Gitmo is like a nasty pimple in the ass of the "free world". That's what makes it important. Comparing it to countries that we know for a fact are not free doesn't tell me anything.M.O.A.B wrote:
You're bitching about one prison like there's no tomorrow, like its the worst crime to humanity since the Nazis when its solid fact that people in Gitmo aren't subjected to anything like that in other prisons around the world.
By "me and you" I meant people generally.FEOS wrote:
They are different in that they engaged in combat against another power. Have you been engaging in combat lately?
And your status is different than mine, since I'm active duty military.
Right so put words in MY mouth then.oug wrote:
Don't put words in my mouth to create an impression please. I never said they were innocent. I said that first they have to be charged with something, then tried, and then we can talk about it. You're the one who thinks they're guilty simply based on the fact that they're inside Gitmo. So what's utterly laughable again?
Yeah better to complain at something you're never going to change.oug wrote:
I explained more than once that Gitmo is like a nasty pimple in the ass of the "free world". That's what makes it important. Comparing it to countries that we know for a fact are not free doesn't tell me anything.M.O.A.B wrote:
You're bitching about one prison like there's no tomorrow, like its the worst crime to humanity since the Nazis when its solid fact that people in Gitmo aren't subjected to anything like that in other prisons around the world.
btw I know shutting the fuck up is what the cool kids do, but I just can't hep myself.
Vax wrote:
Right so put words in MY mouth then.
Vax wrote:
If you think we have guys at GITMO who were just innocent Afghans... I would say that you are misguided.
I took the above to mean that you consider them guilty. If I was wrong then I'm sorry.Vax wrote:
What if we let some of these assholes(sorry) innocent bystanders go...
I'm crying about a bunch of people who are being held without charges and without trials and whose case could potentially become the grim future of any one of us.Vax wrote:
If you don't think they are innocent what the fuck are you in here crying about ?
Very nice. I agree. So then... what are YOU crying about?Vax wrote:
EVERYONE wants to see the place closed, and see resolution to the problem/justice served. No one here wants innocent people held for years without any kind of due process.
Yes.M.O.A.B wrote:
Yeah better to complain at something you're never going to change.
Ummm...capturing them on the battlefield?oug wrote:
By "me and you" I meant people generally.FEOS wrote:
They are different in that they engaged in combat against another power. Have you been engaging in combat lately?
And your status is different than mine, since I'm active duty military.
I see. So how did we establish that they were engaged in combat?
Don't try to twist shit aroundoug wrote:
Vax wrote:
Right so put words in MY mouth then.Vax wrote:
If you think we have guys at GITMO who were just innocent Afghans... I would say that you are misguided.I took the above to mean that you consider them guilty. If I was wrong then I'm sorry.Vax wrote:
What if we let some of these assholes(sorry) innocent bystanders go...
Not really, no.usmarine wrote:
is russia developed?Bertster7 wrote:
Name something more heinous being done by a developed 1st world nation at present.
And who established that.FEOS wrote:
Ummm...capturing them on the battlefield?
Yeah, that's what I said and that's what you said. Am I wrong? Do you or do you not think they're guilty because they're there? And the crying part I copied from you so don't talk to me about middle school. Get to the point.Vax wrote:
Don't try to twist shit around
This is what you said:
"You're the one who thinks they're guilty simply based on the fact that they're inside Gitmo"
And "what am I crying about?"
What are you in middle school ?
Those who were captured. By participating in combat against Coalition forces while not following the tenets of the GC.oug wrote:
And who established that.FEOS wrote:
Ummm...capturing them on the battlefield?
Those who were captured were not following the tenets of the GC?FEOS wrote:
Those who were captured. By participating in combat against Coalition forces while not following the tenets of the GC.oug wrote:
And who established that.FEOS wrote:
Ummm...capturing them on the battlefield?
Your analogies invariably fail, and they betray your agenda in some Freudian way.FEOS wrote:
You're in a car accident. The rescuers cut you out from behind the wheel of your car and take you to the hospital. Do you need the courts to determine whether or not you were driving?
I'm not sure, did the various Afghan tribes, the Northern alliance etc, sign up to the GC?FEOS wrote:
Those who were captured. By participating in combat against Coalition forces while not following the tenets of the GC.
they aint? then why is europe their bitch when it comes to oil?Bertster7 wrote:
Not really, no.usmarine wrote:
is russia developed?Bertster7 wrote:
Name something more heinous being done by a developed 1st world nation at present.
So I take it you regard Saudi Arabia as being developed??? lewlzusmarine wrote:
they aint? then why is europe their bitch when it comes to oil?Bertster7 wrote:
Not really, no.usmarine wrote:
is russia developed?
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-11-17 05:48:02)
so russia is not developed? you two are full of shit sometimes you know that.CameronPoe wrote:
So I take it you regard Saudi Arabia as being developed??? lewlz
